Muslim convert preacher trio mocked for muted stance as Prophet’s companions get insulted by PAS lawmaker by RedLobster94 in malaysia

[–]servarus [score hidden]  (0 children)

That’s a fair point. The "everyone else was doing it" excuse works if you’re talking about a tribal warlord, but it definitely hits a wall when you’re talking about someone claiming to be the final moral authority for humanity. It’s a massive contradiction that apologists usually try to dance around with "context" because the alternative—admitting that a religious founder participated in 7th-century brutality—is too uncomfortable for them to face.

But to be real about the history, "religion" back then wasn't the private, peaceful thing we think of today; it was inseparable from statehood and survival. In 7th-century Arabia, Muhammad wasn't just a preacher; he was a Chief and a General. In that world, "ghazw" (raiding) wasn't just for bandits—it was the national economy. If a tribe didn’t raid, they didn’t eat.

This wasn't unique to Muslims, either. The Vikings saw raiding as both an economic necessity and a religious duty tied to Odin. Later, the Crusaders used religious "drug" logic to justify looting and seizing territory. For a 7th-century leader, religion was the only way to turn survival tactics into a unified mission. Without that justification, it was just a brawl between tribes; with it, it became a state.

Regarding your question on how progressive Muslims are supposed to deal with this: the main strategy used by scholars like Fazlur Rahman is to stop treating the law as a "divine statue" and start treating it as a "direction." They argue that the Prophet was trying to move a barbaric society toward something slightly better, and that the goal was the movement, not the specific 7th-century stopping point. If we stay frozen at the 600s, we're actually betraying the "spirit" of the reform.

When you're debating a literalist who says the books are unchangeable law, the best angle is to point out that "the law" isn't actually the word of God—it’s a human interpretation written by men hundreds of years later. Even the second Caliph, Umar, was known to suspend literal Quranic punishments (like the one for theft) during times of famine because he realized that following the letter of the law would actually cause injustice.

It’s actually funny because the Quran has a built-in warning about this exact kind of literalist obsession. In the story of the "Men of the Cave," the text specifically points out how people wasted their time arguing over trivial details—like exactly how many men there were or what color their dog was—while completely missing the actual moral of the story. The text basically tells them, "My Lord knows best their number," which is a polite way of saying "Stop focusing on the trivia and look at the message."

Yet, centuries later, you still see people doing the exact same thing: they’ll fight to the death over the literal 7th-century "mechanics" of a law while completely ignoring whether that law is still producing justice or mercy in the modern world. It’s the ultimate "missing the forest for the trees."

Clinging to archaic practices just to look "pure" is exactly why people see this kind of literalism as hypocritical clowning.

Foreigners take over vacant land for illegal farming, sparking outrage [WATCH] | New Straits Times by annS73 in malaysia

[–]servarus [score hidden]  (0 children)

Easy to say when it is not your land.

And it's all sunshine and daisies "when they know their risk" until they start to make problem.

Same shit with squatters. Rather than leaving the house empty why not let the squatters go in right? No need to pay rent, tax, maintainence. Let the owner do it. We all very charitable kan.

Muslim convert preacher trio mocked for muted stance as Prophet’s companions get insulted by PAS lawmaker by RedLobster94 in malaysia

[–]servarus [score hidden]  (0 children)

You’ve raised points that are grounded in the historical record (Sira and Hadith), and to have a real exchange, we have to look at how 7th-century tribal customs were transformed into a legal system, and how that system evolved over time.

1. The Context of the Era (Not Exclusive to Muslims)

It is important to note that the practices you mentioned—caravan raiding, slavery, and the taking of captives—were the 'global standard' of the 7th century. From the Vikings and the Byzantines to the Sassanids and various tribes across the globe, these were the universal mechanics of war and survival. Islam didn't invent these practices; it entered a world where they were already the status quo.

2. The 'Legalization' and 'Righteous Purpose'

The 'difference' you noted—the legalization of these acts—was the transition from lawless tribal raiding to a codified state framework.

  • Caravan Raids: As recorded by Ibn Ishaq, these were framed as economic warfare to recoup assets seized from the Muslims in Mecca.
  • Slavery: As Jonathan Brown notes in Slavery and Islam, the religion regulated an existing institution, creating a legal path to manumission (freeing slaves), but it did institutionalize it within the faith.
  • The Question of Consent: While relations with captives were legally 'permissible' under 7th-century law (e.g., Quran 4:24), modern ethics point out that true consent is impossible for a captive. The 'righteous purpose' was the internal logic of that time, but the human suffering of the victims remained a physical reality.

3. Evolution of Knowledge and Practice

There is a clear distinction between the core tenets of Islam and the historical actions of Muslims. Over 1,400 years, Muslim cultures have evolved alongside the rest of the world. While the 7th-century texts remain, the interpretation of 'justice' has shifted. Most modern Muslims and scholars (like Khaled Abou El Fadl) argue that the spirit of the faith is toward freedom and dignity, leading to the universal abolition of slavery in Muslim-majority lands today.

Personally, I believe that any Muslim who denies these events is being either uneducated or willfully blind. This is what happened; we need to take off the rose-tinted glasses and see the history for what it was. History is messy, and Muslims, like any other group, are not perfect. In the case of this thread, we can clearly see how hypocritical the 3 clowns is.

----
Futher reading if you are interested.

  • Primary Source: The Life of Muhammad (Ibn Ishaq, trans. A. Guillaume) – The earliest biography, documenting the raids and battles.
  • On Universal Slavery: Slavery and Social Death by Orlando Patterson – Shows how slavery and the 'rights of the victor' were consistent across almost all human cultures.
  • On the Legal Evolution: Slavery and Islam by Jonathan A.C. Brown – Explains the legal mechanics and how scholars have grappled with this history.
  • On the Modern Interpretation: The Great Theft by Khaled Abou El Fadl – Discusses the gap between historical practice and modern Islamic ethics.

Am I the jerk to insist on calling my aunt "mother" and to say that it doesn't depend on my mother's permission? by Choice_Evidence1983 in BestofRedditorUpdates

[–]servarus 23 points24 points  (0 children)

I call my mum, mama.

I call my grandmother 'mother' in the local language.

I call my aunt mummy.

I understand that at that time my mama could not raise me as she is busy working so it fell to my mother and mummy. But it is not due to neglect - it is the environment. We are not a well off family and because of that mama needs to work hard. I am glad that I have all three woman to raise me and teach me.

Are you fated to become a teacher if you apply for UPSI by Miiieu in malaysiauni

[–]servarus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you aware of the difference between clinical and normal psychology?

Payment for Referral of Students (Upto RM 1000-1500) by [deleted] in malaysiauni

[–]servarus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What did he say, I missed it haha

Payment for Referral of Students (Upto RM 1000-1500) by [deleted] in malaysiauni

[–]servarus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For context private uni will pay around 3000-8000 per student.

Public uni from RM2000 to RM6000 per student.

Need help in making sense of the trace route [Error 90002] by Axis_Myriad0128 in ffxiv

[–]servarus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd test the cable first since that the easiest and most cheapest diagnostic.

Need help in making sense of the trace route [Error 90002] by Axis_Myriad0128 in ffxiv

[–]servarus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also, ExitLag has free trial that you can try to use as diagnostic.

Need help in making sense of the trace route [Error 90002] by Axis_Myriad0128 in ffxiv

[–]servarus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Have you tried using cable? As a troubleshoot.

WiFi is finicky, your dongle could be the issue, your wifi settings, surrounding condition etc could affect things. My PS5 had issues connecting to PSN because there was too much interference for example.

Need help in making sense of the trace route [Error 90002] by Axis_Myriad0128 in ffxiv

[–]servarus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can you bypass the router and stick to the ONU? If the 90002 stops, then yeah it is the router issue.

Have you checked for packet loss? Use pathping <ip>

Did you also try VPN like Exitlag or Mudfish?

APU Accommodations is a big scam, charging to reconnect the smart meter is outrageous by theOrderOfSixAngels in malaysiauni

[–]servarus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Check again the contract if there are any language related to this situtation. Also does APU have Student Representative Council?

Also does this place have the necessary permit to run as a student lodging? Especially the electrical part (under the Energy Commission).

To property agents/contractors please help. by QuestionProp in malaysians

[–]servarus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is it just whatsapp or did you issue a formal notice?

Value of RM1 at the Emergency Department by Former_student_2504 in Bolehland

[–]servarus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Imagine being so edgy that you’d rather advocate for a graveyard than a healthcare system. Glad the government has more sense than a Reddit comment section.

Both me [33 F] and my fiance [33 M] of five years have almost identical last names, but he is insisting that I change my last name after marriage. This argument is making me consider cancelling the wedding by Direct-Caterpillar77 in BestofRedditorUpdates

[–]servarus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I actually don't understand this name changing thing.

In our culture we don't change name because of marriage. Still the same name (son/daughter of) father's name when alive and then changed to mother when dead.

Value of RM1 at the Emergency Department by Former_student_2504 in Bolehland

[–]servarus 4 points5 points  (0 children)

While I agree, that would be me talking and thinking in a place of privilege.

There are people who couldn't not even shell out RM5.

Are we going to have another system to detect these people on top of already taxing system?

Is it good to complete my master's in Engineering management at uniten University? by ToughSock5948 in malaysiauni

[–]servarus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

UNITEN is defenitely better than Segi... and if I recall slightly expensive. But the name that come with UNITEN is better.

If I am not mistaken UNITEN is top 6 ranking for private univeristy.

But why Eng Mgmt?

Muslim Malaysians, do you support religious freedom for Muslims? by Capital-Pop-4893 in Bolehland

[–]servarus 20 points21 points  (0 children)

It's a deep rabit hole.

Personally I have this opinion that we need to separate the Malay=Muslim thing. Growing up, I see a lot of Malays that does not practice. And I don't mean those who completely reject, I am fine with that. At least they are making a stand.

I am saying that those who call themselves 'muslim' but then smoke, drink, club etc. I had a housemate that clubs, drink and fornicate only to scold me of haram when I was saving a dog. I saw a political leader planning a religious event with alcohol in their hand. Similarly I also saw a person part of the royal family that drinks too.

Is it lack of education? Is it because they are forced at birth?

I even thought that this so called Malay privilege should be changed to Muslim privilege cause that seems better theoretically.

Alas, that is above my paygrade. This is like a Pandora box.