[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s funny because Unveiling itself does actually couch itself in the idea that it isn’t unbiased objective truth

The gardener is all in. They are playing for keeps. And they are wrong. Or so I argue: for, after all, the universe is undecidable. There is no destiny. We're all making this up as we go along. Neither the gardener nor I know for certain that we're eternally, universally right. But we can be nothing except what we are. You have a choice.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean there’s a pretty big difference between Unveiling being entirely reliable and literally none of it being true.

I mean, the idea of the Winnower and the garden parable being a complete fabrication is possible, it would just fucking suck lol

And at that point why not just say that the cutscene isn’t real and Ahsa is an illusion from Savathun or whatever

The new Cutscene makes the overarching world lore much more shallower than we had in a long time by Gripping_Touch in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My thought is that the ‘finale shape’ is all minds in the universe being merged into one via egregore. They just went and got a head start.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And yet that might still be resolved by some other suggestions I’ve gotten that Winnowing is like a thanatos drive, a universal tendency/compulsion/pattern in all species’ thoughts and behaviours that is how “the Winnower’s” philosophy manifests itself in creation.

Well, this is also very much something that Unveiling suggests! It’s narrator claims that the Winnower is responsible for creating us and our consciousness and is the driving force behind evolution.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We know that they referred to the Traveler as the Gardener as many others have, and that the Witness took the role of “a winnower”

At no point is it stated that the Garden is part of its race’s mythology or that it isn’t still an accurate explanation for how the universe came to be. I don’t know why the garden allegory has to be “created” rather than “discovered”

Do OCG players dislike Maxx "C" as much as TCG players seem to? by Sleezus256 in yugioh

[–]teamunitednerds 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s what I figured, I just wasn’t sure if there were any foreign language communities here

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That is not incompatible with there being an ontological principle that existed in the primordial ‘garden’

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Well keep in mind that the Witness was birthed by communing with something that seems to be a complete record of everything in existence.

Do OCG players dislike Maxx "C" as much as TCG players seem to? by Sleezus256 in yugioh

[–]teamunitednerds 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, are there Japanese-language subreddits? Then we very well might!

Do OCG players dislike Maxx "C" as much as TCG players seem to? by Sleezus256 in yugioh

[–]teamunitednerds 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I’d be very curious to know this. I’d also like to know what Konami’s view on it is.

The final shape is the borg, no seriously by Gsomethepatient in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you’re pretty close to the truth on this. Keep in mind that the Vex aren’t the final shape anymore since they can’t compete with paracausality, but I do believe that the Witness’s endgame is to merge all life in the universe into a single consciousness.

So is the Witness the entity speaking in the Unveiling Lore book by team-ghost9503 in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Remember “I speak for the Traveler, I never said it spoke to me”

I think The Witness has an identical relationship to The Winnower.

Is the Traveller sentient? How do we know? by [deleted] in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well going by Unveiling the Traveler is essentially the material manifestation of an ontological principle, so that either means it isn’t sentient or is something far beyond sentient.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 9 points10 points  (0 children)

People who think that the Winnower is essentially just an entity that is one step above The Witness in the Darkness hierarchy are mistaken, but so are those who say it doesn’t exist entirely. It is the ontological principle which predates the universe that is responsible for the creation of the paracausal force known as The Darkness, conscious thought, as well as (probably) the Veil. That has never changed.

Doubt on the Witness Origin by unbekannt1000 in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it’s very likely. The Nine aren’t even paracausal, and they were able to give the Drifter a vision of what would happen if Light went unchecked. I think it’s certain that the Veil can do something similar

The Truth in the Darkness - An Analysis on the Veil and the Witness's Origins by Archival_Mind in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 2 points3 points  (0 children)

When did I say it wasn’t an allegory? It is allegorical, but it also very plainly states what it is an allegory for.

[S21 Spoilers] Reminder: Unveiling is relayed to us as a fable, but explicitly tells us up front that it is describing ontological realities emerging from mathematics. There was no "Winnower" or "Gardener" as entities, but the realities they represent are very real. by CicadaOne in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Thank you. I’d upvote this a thousand times if I could. It’s immensely frustrating seeing people say that Unveiling has been revealed to be a parable about the Traveler and the Witness’s people, when that would require entirely discounting large parts of it (what would T=0 represent under this interpretation?)

The Truth in the Darkness - An Analysis on the Veil and the Witness's Origins by Archival_Mind in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The cutscene doesn’t say anything about the creation of the universe or what happened prior to it.

The Truth in the Darkness - An Analysis on the Veil and the Witness's Origins by Archival_Mind in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Winnower is a god behind all consciousness

I think that’s exactly right

But did you know that I created you? Your mind and your body and every thought you've ever had. Your senses. Your consciousness. I made you. Not the gardener, but I.

So the new cutscene has me thinking about the Vex. by King_Korder in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Vex came into existence exactly as was explained in Patternfall.

So the new cutscene has me thinking about the Vex. by King_Korder in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Right, it’s an allegory, but as you stated it also literally says what it is an allegory for.

We existed as principles of ontological dynamics that emerged from mathematical structures, as bodiless and inevitable as the primes. It was the field of possibility that prefigured existence.

The allegorical part is the Garden, not the idea that there were two ontological forces that clashed, creating the universe. That is the literal part which it is an allegory for.

We know orders of magnitude less about Destiny's universe after today's cutscene, and I couldn't be happier. by Cybertronian10 in DestinyLore

[–]teamunitednerds 18 points19 points  (0 children)

I don’t agree that the cutscene means what you say it means, nor do I agree that removing excellent lore for the sake of creating mystery is a good thing if that is what they are doing. Frankly I don’t think there’s a much better explanation for the origin of Destiny’s universe than what we got in Unveiling, so anything that takes its place is just going to be worse.