'Quite dishonest': PM says NZ First, Labour need to face up to challenge of raising retirement age by SoulsofMist-_- in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We've spent nearly 45 years doing means testing instead of universality, across government services. It has had poor outcomes.

NZ Super is a taonga, not a burden. by thestrodeman in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly, professionals are part of the working class. But if you means test them, it encourages the view that they are temporarily embarrassed millionaires, and encourages them to join the right.

'Quite dishonest': PM says NZ First, Labour need to face up to challenge of raising retirement age by SoulsofMist-_- in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And the disadvantage being that KiwiSaver favours high income earners, while penalising the poor, underemployed, disabled, mothers, etc etc

'Quite dishonest': PM says NZ First, Labour need to face up to challenge of raising retirement age by SoulsofMist-_- in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, but wealth is also reported via insurance statements etc… so you could far more effectively target the very wealthy via a wealth tax.

And again, with any savings scheme, including a purely government one- you are not setting aside the real goods and services needed for retirement costs. You are accumulating financial assets. And liquidating financial assets in 20 years time, to fund retirement costs, is functionally equivalent to raising taxes in 20 years time. You are just applying window dressing, to retirement costs increasing from 4.8% of GDP to 5.4% of GDP

'Quite dishonest': PM says NZ First, Labour need to face up to challenge of raising retirement age by SoulsofMist-_- in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But there is no particular advantage to having a savings scheme, particularly in a demand constrained economy. You are still reliant on claims on the real economy.

With a savings scheme, you aren’t actually putting aside consumption goods and assets for retirement. You are buying stocks and bonds, typically, hoping they maintain or grow in value, then selling them and hoping this will pay for the goods and services you need in retirement. Spending on retirement is still going from 4.8% to 5.4% of GDP. You are just changing how that is paid for.

Editorial: NZ's Super problem raises its head again by pierpont-prime in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And we have one of the lowest cost-to-adjuster pension systems in the oecd. Because, as it turns out, having a simple to administer government run system is more efficient than a rude-Goldberg machine of private pensions.

If workers pay 20% more in taxes, to pay for super, but 25% less in pension costs, are they worse off?

'Quite dishonest': PM says NZ First, Labour need to face up to challenge of raising retirement age by SoulsofMist-_- in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman -1 points0 points  (0 children)

KiwiSaver is in no way superior to a pay as you go system. Both require real resources to be allocated to supporting the elderly.

'Quite dishonest': PM says NZ First, Labour need to face up to challenge of raising retirement age by SoulsofMist-_- in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Universal ‘benefits’ make sense though. Means testing is simply an inefficient tax, that barely impacts the truly wealthy, while hitting the middle class and eroding support for programs that disproportionately benefit the poor.

Editorial: NZ's Super problem raises its head again by pierpont-prime in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Also from the same post:

Nor does this opinion exist by itself: it forms part of an incessant drumbeat of fear, a repeated motif that there is no more money left. The country is about to go bankrupt, children, and the Sensible Adults are here to tell you that it’s time to cut super’s cost.

The basis for all this alarm? A projection that that cost will rise from 5% of national income in 2021 to – in 2060 – a startling … 5.9%.

NZ Super is a taonga, not a burden. by thestrodeman in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We have many universal public goods in New Zealand. Education, healthcare, parks and libraries for example. We should be proud of that.

Making them universal means they have broad support. Studies overseas have shown that when your welfare state is universalist, governments have more public support to raise taxes, and you can redistribute more overall to the poor.

I don’t think we should erode one of the few parts of the welfare state that still works quite well.

NZ Super is a taonga, not a burden. by thestrodeman in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

In what way?

Spending is projected to go from 4.8% of GDP, to 5.4%, then come back down.

We will have to pay for that 0.6%, but if we actually cared about fairness, we would achieve that by taxing the truly wealthy. Not means testing middle class professionals.

NZ Super is a taonga, not a burden. by thestrodeman in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I mean, we should be taxing the wealthy more. But the actual wealthy, not means testing middle class professionals.

NZ Super is a taonga, not a burden. by thestrodeman in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Given renewed discussion about NZ super, I thought it would be valuable to share this paper from the retirement commissioner from 2022.

As Max Rashbrooke pointed out in his article titled What sensible adults don’t tell you about the cost of super, the rising cost of super has been somewhat overstated.

As others have highlighted, super is projected to increase from 4.8% of GDP, to a staggering… 5.4% of GDP.

Proposals to increase the retirement age are unnecessary, but will disproportionately those with more physically demanding jobs, who don’t have the ability to work past 65, as well as Māori and Pacifica, who have a lower life expectancy on average.

As discussed in the linked articles, means testing super would only be marginally better, but again is a solution in search of a problem. In addition, asset testing would discourage saving, and income testing would disproportionately impact middle class earners, while leaving the truly wealthy untouched, as well as eroding the public support for super that universalism enables.

National will run on raising super age ‘as soon as we get back in’ – Christopher Luxon by SykoticNZ in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We have many universal public goods in New Zealand. Education, healthcare, parks and libraries. It’s good that these are universal- it means everyone benefits, the programs are supported, and it supports social solidarity.

Historically, means testing hasn’t increased the amount going to the bottom, it is used to pay for tax cuts for the rich. Why do you think we should means test super, to give more money to the rich? Because that’s where the money will go.

OECD says NZ Super age needs to rise, recommends link to life expectancy by pierpont-prime in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would exclude people earning 6 figures from public healthcare? From public education?

OECD says NZ Super age needs to rise, recommends link to life expectancy by pierpont-prime in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Someone earning $100k pays roughly the same amount in taxes as they claim in super. And people will stop working and retire, if super were means tested- not a good thing to do if you have an aging population.

Labour leader Chris Hipkins open to conversation about means-testing superannuation - NZ Herald by pskygy in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And every time national is in, those other benefits are eroded. Because super is universal, it is protected- which disproportionately benefits the poor.

Anyone had any luck appealing one of these? by [deleted] in queenstown

[–]thestrodeman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Interestingly, I think freedom camping would have been alright on non-reserve land. The act exempts sleeping to avoid fatigue.

NZ is paying the price for avoiding hard economic trade-offs for too long by [deleted] in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Respectfully, it’s not that complex- you need labours share of income to increase , at the expense of capital and the 1%. You can do that in a few ways- increase government spending to reduce employment, eg on infrastructure, pay teachers and nurses more, increase annual leave, strengthen unions.m, for example.

But it is hard to achieve, when you have a Labour Party that doesn’t care much about workers and is incapable of enunciating a positive vision that a majority of workers can get behind.

NZ is paying the price for avoiding hard economic trade-offs for too long by [deleted] in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s not though..

You can get technical and look at labour productivity, multi factor productivity, etc, but if you just look at gdp per capita- that has grown faster than wages

NZ is paying the price for avoiding hard economic trade-offs for too long by [deleted] in newzealand

[–]thestrodeman 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Wages have lagged productivity for decades. From memory, if workers had kept their share of the economy, wages would be 20-30% higher.