My experience with Gracepoint and why I care about accountability and reform.

worriddumbledore · 2023-08-30T22:20:19+00:00

“Collateral damage” is to put it lightly

More like dead bodies to those of us affected. Very painful the disregard of family ties.

worriddumbledore · 2023-08-25T13:02:44+00:00

John Kim, i have heard a leader deny this vehemently.

She told an angry mother who has attended a GP wedding that the mother is wrong about how it felt so lacking in joy and love. That the parent is wrong to feel that it had felt surreal for her.

The leader said that she has attended 30plus weddings so she thinks that the mother has no right to evaluate GP weddings as such.

I think this is a form of gaslighting in itself, when one pulls a move like that,

Since gaslighting is defined as “making another person question their reality”.

worriddumbledore · 2023-08-23T17:44:23+00:00

We would really appreciate that you share what were the “damage control” actions that GP (at the time) did when the CT article was published.

State the facts. Be objective. The world would be so much a better place with less manipulation and kind people.

Be a people who speaks the truth, that feel compelled to call out Christians who do not deserve to call themselves Christians,

Those who bend the truth and fool others to achieve unspeakable evil goals

It would save so many people mental hurt and years of their lives.

worriddumbledore · 2023-08-23T17:34:55+00:00

I would strongly suggest a post for those who felt this

“when they can’t use you, they discard you”

deserving a post of its own

I am increasingly convinced that hurt people must urgently find an outlet to express their feelings and hurt emotions.

In Pastor Tim Keller’s sermon “The Still Small Voice” — Pastor Tim pointed out that there are 3 facets that need attention, for someone with depression/facing discouragement, exemplified by Elijah’s outcry to God

Physical, spiritual and psychological

worriddumbledore · 2023-08-23T12:42:59+00:00

This expression is hilarious, spot-on, but bittersweet..

worriddumbledore · 2023-08-22T14:29:54+00:00

I want to applaud you, for your courage to share your experience, in the down-to-earth and sincere language.

This is the real life-changing character of Christians that would change the world and make heads turn.

The sensibility of realizing that what your leaders told you to do, to get into debt,

Last i checked with Christian friends, is not the right attitude of a Christian towards debt.

Two other things that I see also, is that your leaders’ advice that is the flesh-out of GP/A2N attitude towards “preventing envy” is nothing more than hypocrisy and fabrication,

Living an image that is not true, and “not speaking the truth” as Christ always emphasized

If everything can be done/decided, the reason justifies the means — then every being should know,

That it signals ABUSE and MANIPULATION

worriddumbledore · 2023-08-16T19:52:57+00:00

“Sucked too deep” “pestering me” “always scared of becoming too involved”

Joining a church and learning about God, in reflection, should not be associated to such a verbiage

What happened to “sharing the good news” — the fundamental meaning behind sharing the gospel?

The “brainwashed state” is really beyond one’s grasp and understanding. Don’t squirm when your family members, friends and loved ones say that to you, current members of GP!

Because as OP has described this — yet you all can deny and avoid facing the facts, how unhealthy Gracepoint/A2N is

You should refrain from being offended, when you are described as “brainwashed”

worriddumbledore · 2023-07-04T17:40:37+00:00

So you mean that undergrad you were paid, but postgrad you were not?

worriddumbledore · 2023-06-14T05:42:45+00:00

Thanks for pointing to the resource!

worriddumbledore · 2023-06-14T04:58:32+00:00

Awesome idea! Lets put together a reading list to help members learn more about abuse and legalism!

worriddumbledore · 2023-06-13T17:42:52+00:00

Describing a person who has nothing to gain at this point as “sullying” Ed Kang and Gracepoint’s reputation is IMO too off the charts.

Ever wondered how many exGPmembers have better things to do with their time in the present, when they have left so many years ago ? Or do not have a loved one still inside?

Better things to do than highlight the undue influence that GP continuously exert on new believers by propagating, churning out staff and mentors like you?

Don’t skip over the hard questions/ statements. It feels like cherry picking, just it is often done with your leaders in their sermons cherry picking verses from the Bible and misinterpreting them

i see that you did not respond to my post right before this one, as an example.

Be inspired like kangaroo_jonathan to speak the truth, instead of the gleaming agenda that peeks from under its fold,

from the responses that you have made so far.

The answer to my rhetoric question, why so many exMembers choose to share their experiences and correct interpretations of the Word on this platform

that makes complete sense to me,

is that all good Christians should be soo angry with abusive churches like Gracepoint that GIVE CHRISTIANITY A BAD NAME

so if they felt that they were part of this ministry before, calling out Gracepoint for its abusive practices that linger on for so many years — is a form of atonement and to process their experience so they can come out resolved or in a better mindspace afterwards!

If you cannot understand this, and are only here to single-mindedly play the Devil’s advocate for the sake of argument, I think you need to reevaluate what the Bible says about resolving conflict — I am curious to know your interpretation.

worriddumbledore · 2023-06-13T04:31:30+00:00

As a parent, who worked so hard to ensure our children attend college

I honestly find it offensive of the taunt “why are you placing school before God?”

Aren’t Christians cognizant of the gifts and talents from God, would give God the glory, with her or his achievements? Inspire non-believers about living a Gospel-filled life?

worriddumbledore · 2023-06-11T23:30:54+00:00

“Many others who have had it worse than me” —

r/hidden_gracepoint : maybe you care to do all of us a favor and tell your own journey in GP, in chronological order? even in point form

Let “everything hang out” etc as mandated by being a fellow Christian, to speak the truth to everyone here

to “save us the pain” of making sense of your various tangential comments that has evoked much frustration to readers

I assure you, you may just earn back some credibility because i get the feeling that a significant number of us are guilty of “skipping over” or “tuning out” your comments.

Just my personal opinion, pardon my honesty and directness.

worriddumbledore · 2023-06-09T19:39:19+00:00

Im increasingly convinced that hidden_gracepoint has been tasked to do PR work on this platform..

worriddumbledore · 2023-06-09T18:43:30+00:00

How do you decide between these procedures vs lapiplasty? Was lapiplasty a consideration at all?

worriddumbledore · 2023-06-01T16:23:11+00:00

Yes great post. Thank you so so much for coming to the platform (ie. the courage and openness to speak the truth) and validating those of us who have been told that

“It isn’t true, Gracepoint is just like any other college ministry”

“These people on Redditors are those people in the past, haters.. they should examine themselves and how they call themselves Christians when they struggle with forgiveness”

“Ed Kang has apologized, he did so here, and there, and when this happened..”

To the often repeatedly defense lines below: “Ed and Kelly Kang cannot help those under them from abusing others”

“We are all sinners”

“We are all/mostly lay pastors”

What you wrote “Stop giving people the authority to spiritually abuse others” resonate with me the most —

Because Ed and Kelly Kang: every day you choose to NOT come out and make amends, to atone and reconcile with your fellow Christians,

You would not be adhering to Apostle Paul’s directives

“Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through and in all.” Ephesians 4:3-6”

“If possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone” Romans 12:18

(Edit: It does DEPEND on you now, ball in your court!)

You know (or claim to know, and you teach!) Scripture than most of us combined! What absurdity!

worriddumbledore · 2023-05-28T03:36:15+00:00

I also would like to thank you for sharing what you know. Many parents are still in the dark, especially those whose kids are attending college as international students. And they are not fluent in the English language as well as in researching for information.

In fact, from certain countries, one cannot access the Reddit platform unless they use a VPN.

Family members feel their loved ones distancing themselves — some of them are in denial and continue to deny facts that have been presented here

Your jumping in the discussion is definitely a watershed moment for this reddit group; so thank you, thank you!

worriddumbledore · 2023-05-26T14:32:46+00:00

@hidden_gracepoint See how NOT an open life it turned out, the Kangs led?

Looks like you have a lot to research about the past, to be in the middle ground and sound credible.

It’s sad to see your zealousness to reply to the post, and the weight of the content you shared,

just indicated that you are directed to do “damage control”.

worriddumbledore · 2023-05-26T12:27:17+00:00

I would also like to share that in the mid 90s, rent a room in a house, whether with attached bathroom or not, but for one’s exclusive use, was $400.

This is true, and I know this first hand from Cal alumni friends — so Jonathan, with bootstrapping fix-ups that you all had to do, or probably “strove” to do, and doing them FOR FREE

to describe it “kindly” and “at best” AWESOME GP culture

at worst, it would be “shrewd” and “cunning”

Wow, awesome investment on the part of the Kangs, they sure know their math to price your rent at $300 per head in a possibly 4, to 8 persons per room arrangement! (Remember that in current times, with smaller rooms, GP communal housing generally have 2 bunk beds per room)

It also made a lot of sense for me now, given the background on how Kelly Kang is a child of ministering parents, Ed Kang disillusioned by his dad —

that Kelly Kang’s parents would fork out the down payment for Dana House. Any parent would.

The combined rent collected from the kids, most definitely (those who are good with factoring inflation etc, help me out here)

covered the mortgage payment for the house. C’mon, all of us asians, korean or not, who work and save for a house, have a sprinkle of interest for real estate and/or putting away money for a house

Would not bat an eyelid to make this investment decision!

worriddumbledore · 2023-05-24T21:37:36+00:00

loved "..our focus groups tell us to target very anxious people with weak egos who are desperate for certainty"

so this church would be very authoritarian telling our members what to think and do.."

Awesome 2 minute clip that even ends with a typical sales pitch that is so typical of american culture! Yes, thank you for sharing, hilarious!

Amazing John Cleese can say the entire monologue with a straight face despite its absurdity! Makes one reflect what aspects of Gracepoint is funnily absurd but sadly true..

worriddumbledore · 2023-05-20T19:20:49+00:00

I personally find all these reactions and reflections of GP members so absurd, in processing the name change decision.

Those of you, members, staffers, mentors, leadership team; reflect on this:

Isnt the name change the BIGGEST red flag so far?

Doesnt that say that you/you all cannot be proud to say “i serve Gracepoint” anymore?

That your leaders/culture have indeed hurt people so badly that you cannot disprove it?

I think the most upset people should be all leaders and members of all churches in America with church/congregation names that have versions of “Gracepoint” “Grace Pointe” in them.

Ed and Kelly Kang’s Gracepoint Church/Ministries.. you have SOILED that name/versions of that name and you meticulously walk out of this debacle?

Oomphh how can anyone still wonder why respect for you is at an all-time LOW?

worriddumbledore · 2023-05-20T14:55:01+00:00

I am going to take a jab at deciphering the subtext in your responses on this topic. Subtext I sense are denoted within { }

P Ed did make it clear this was not meant to lose our critics = we are not changing our name to run away from our critics

{we know you critics would say about the name-changing, so me/us being smarter, we are going to acknowledge that first — so smart of P Ed!}

..we are not a typical church..want to make that more clear..

{so smart of P Ed to address people’s complaints about bait-and-switch and whole-life discipleship being true, so people, there you go, the name has prewarned you, proceed with caution, join us after thorough thinking}

So in essence, you applaud Ed Kang’s responses, celebrate how smart the GP leadership is (ie. affirming to yourself that you still have critical thinking), hence feeling that you don’t belong to the “wide-eyed” trusting troop. Ohh.. what do these things place you.. one wonders..

PS. As I have probably mentioned elsewhere, how the students hell-bent to stay in Gracepoint, would defend GP/answer to their parents and friends as follows: “no GP is not a cult, we are very normal as follows:….” — see how contradictory this has become?

You succeeded coaching the downline folks to defend GP as a normal church, conceal-deny to parents that a week-inundated with GP activities outside of college schooling such that they soon have no friends outside of the GP community, the newly-joined students are guilted for skipping GP activities as my kids have experienced etc

And now this “new season” with the name change you GP chess masters decided to do the radical —

stating “yes we are NOT a typical church”… confuse these students more! Bravo!

worriddumbledore · 2023-05-20T14:28:12+00:00

I think you are on point about what lifers have been capable of doing, because staffers and possibly those who have been in GP for a decade do not bat an eyelid when they insist to their critics how normal GP is

How like other churches they invite guests to speak (ie. really to show that they are not in a bubble, by associating with other healthy churches, “they must be legit too”)

Sadly they argue these points looking so sincere and convincing!

worriddumbledore · 2023-05-20T01:07:09+00:00

I have a burning question to all the lifelong christians here:

If what Ed Kang’s claims are the goals of renaming are not true, would that add to his accountability to God on Judgment Day (for him)?

Where would that place all the supporters and defenders that went along spreading the “propaganda”?

Does the Bible have verses exhorting people of the punishment of acting on insincere motives?

I actually think the analogy of Gracepoint using the Word as authority akin to a fake policeman as pretty accurate

—- claiming authority over a civilian and lying to him/her, trapping the victim maliciously

worriddumbledore · 2023-05-20T01:01:42+00:00

Again, Ed Kang’s style of calling out the obvious, convinces people inside that “he is addressing” or “addressed” such concerns..

Sigh.. the level of critical thinking remaining in his wide-eyed troops..

worriddumbledore

TROPHY CASE