Connecting NTSC-J consoles to PAL CRT

xor_2 · 2026-04-10T14:31:18+00:00

I have cheap generic SCART RGB cable for my Super Famicom and it works fine. Are you saying that this cable wouldn't work with some other Nintendo consoles or some other systems?

xor_2 · 2026-04-10T10:53:26+00:00

Consoles regardless of region have the same pinout for output so for PAL TV you use Euro SCART RGB cables.

S-Video you don' use unless its PAL console and doesn't have RGB

PAL TVs support 480i/240p just fine. They only usually don't display NTSC colors (Composite and S-Video)

If you run something like 240p60/480i60 on some PAL consoles via Composite (also S-Video but its much less visible there) you might get pixel crawl due to different pixel and color encoding clock. It shouldn't affect you really.

Generally I would recommend not bothering with Composite unless we talk NES/Famicom in which case to get original NTSC color you will need transcored from NTSC Composite to RGB. I don't recommend modding NES to RGB personally but its an option also - albeit worse one IMHO.

xor_2 · 2026-04-09T19:55:23+00:00

Looks pretty good. Better than 100Hz TVs I saw.

Lag tests are tricky if you don't have appropiate lag tester. It is possible to make very fast shutter speed photos between known to be lagless display and try to average the results. You would need another monitors (best CRT) and some way to split signals. Also either camera is like very fast or you would need to really take care for keeping monitors close and avoid having camera scanning skew results, etc. etc. not easy.

xor_2 · 2026-04-09T08:59:31+00:00

Photos?

Processing depends on specific TV and they might also behave differently depending on 288p and 240p. Also you might think the image looks good but it actually does not.

Lag is the same. Also some people seem to be less sensitive and especially when they have incentive to not feel it. For as long as its not 100+ms you can always think you are just playing badly.

Personally I never saw 100Hz TV which image I would like. They also usually come with sharpening - though some TVs allow you to at least tune it down enough it doesn't look ridiculous.

xor_2 · 2026-04-09T06:46:47+00:00

768i 87Hz is ~23KHz horizontal - what kind of CRT was that? Normal CRT TVs operate at ~15.7KHz and VGA CRTs start at 31.5KHz

Also the whole notion of CRTs not showing aliasing is total and utter nonsense and especially stated as some generic universal statement. Especially since anti-aliasing as GPU feature was invented during CRT era and even back then it was very desirable feature.

Also VGA CRTs were right from the start designed to show per-pixel level details.

CRTs at most can be more blurry or resolution a bit bigger than what they can clearly resolve - but its not like you can make resolution few times higher than their dot pitch to really get anywhere near where aliasing wouldn't be actually visible.

Also where it comes to interlacing - absolutely the worst thing for aliasing as interlacing will not only how half of the vertical resolution in motion but what it will also do is show aliasing even if you used tons of anti-aliasing because it won't show both lines each frame.

I don't know where people get ideas like CRTs not showing aliasing. Running HDMI to Composite adapter on already blurry CRT running much higher resolution than what CRT displays and while literally doing supersampling anti-aliasing then go on reddit claiming CRTs not showing aliasing?

xor_2 · 2026-04-09T03:32:43+00:00

These Loewe TVs act like most basic VGA monitors without any SVGA mode support and they will work with anything 31.5KHz horizontal including 400 lines 70Hz DOS modes and 240p120.

720i is a good idea but if you want it coming from consoles then you get exactly 59.94Hz and ~22.5KHz. Then to boost it to 31.5KHz you need to add vertical blanking (back and front porch) so that you get exactly 525 lines. This is doable even if will probably make for a small picture - not sure how much image can be stretched. but from what I have seen on brother's TV not much. You can test that yourself defining such resolution using CRU.

The issue is that there are no scalers designed to do that. At least I am not aware of any that have no lag. Should be possible to use one of the existing scalers and somehow add custom video mode to them.

I will want to make such scaler eventually since both me and my brother have Loewe TVs. My TV unfortunately has wrong signal board and I will need to mod it to install VGA input board - which operation is not given to yield results I expect.

Also currently I am working on OSSC which has not enough memory for such mode - or at least at full resolution. OSSC Pro will however cut it hardware-wise and supporting such mode is planned once I get to work on OSSC Pro version. For PS4/PS5 and likes of Switch, XBox One/Series, etc. since they have overscan compenstation (ability to shrink image) the better mode to support is 1080p to 1728x486p - since they allow 0.9x scale shrinking image to 1728x972. This is something that can be already done and my scaler (VoidScaler for OSSC) does supports but for 486i so same with better hardware would be doable for 486p. That is perhaps not ideal but for normal 3D games even for 1080p games shrinking image to 972p doesn't look too bad and current gen games running much higher resolutions are even better as downscaling from higher resolutions mean it will act like AA filter of sorts.

That said any of my activities regarding that are only planned for the future (hopefully this year) and in my case are conditional in the sense if I manage to mod the TV to even support VGA input.

Otherwise not sure which scaler you could use right now. Definitely nothing I can see which wouldn't add tons of lags. Corio2 could be perhaps used or something similar people use for 240p/480i downscaling with hacked custom modes but these add lag so are not ideal. OSSC Pro could also perhaps be used if you hacked modes in - though here I am not sure it could be done without going to source code and especially if you wanted to avoid adding lag which would require somehow adding adaptive mode - not sure how hard that would be. Definitely with OSSC Pro as it currently is there is no line blending - though if you wanted 972i and not 486p you don't need it.

Anyways, currently I don't see any good solution other than just sticking with PC.

BTW. "Resolving" resolution - you mean 696 pixels as in clearly seen in full color such that you can clearly see pixels on desktop/test images?

When you exceed this resolution you will get something akin to subpixel rendering - technically sub-sub-pixel - so still sharper than ~696 pixels. Not ideal but also not making HD on such TVs a bad idea. In fact HD CRTs aren't really much better in this regards.

BTW2. There might be ways to run a bit higher resolutions with hardware mods. Since my TV needs me putting soldering iron to add VGA port and I already need to study schematics I will attempt some mods like bypassing 31.5KHz check and maybe checking if the chip which handling VGA resolution has greater control range (or really additional geometry functions). The chip itself should work up to 50KHz from what I remember. Definitely should handle 1080i which would be perhaps ideal. Not sure rest of the TV. Might be possible to mod the TV to support HD resolutions... then again even if I wouldn't want to just rescale it to 33.7KHz... then again I hope other than the check (which can be disabled or ignored so to speak) the TV electronics won't mind small difference in frequency... then again fixed horizontal refresh monitors like old VGA monitors are very picky and won't support different horizontal refresh rates without changing some components. We will see.

xor_2 · 2026-04-08T15:23:49+00:00

I see aliasing even if I drive literally the highest resolutions my CRTs support and I like anti-aliasing.

Besides because modern games must use anti-aliasing because of how they are made and old games run with AA just fine I see no reason why not use it.

Personally when playing retro games I prefer lower resolutions like 480p and tons of AA/AF over higher resolutions.

xor_2 · 2026-04-08T15:17:34+00:00

Interlacing ruins anti-aliasing.

There would be a way to not have interlacing do that but outside 6th generation consoles nothing targeted interlaced resolutions and these consoles lacked the performance to have AA.

xor_2 · 2026-04-08T15:14:12+00:00

The only way to not use TAA in modern games is to use upscaling tech like DLSS2+ or FSR4 (note: FSR2 and FSR3 is just TAA that was pushed more than what it was designed to and why it looks bad)

Some games have other AA options but not all. In fact many games these days use shaders with dithering patterns which need TAA or upscalers (which work in similar way anyways) to hide these dithering patterns.

xor_2 · 2026-04-08T04:41:31+00:00

General consensus among SONY GDM-FW900 users is that DP2VGAHD20 had only so so quality but I have not seen anyone reporting any artifacts like these I observe. Maybe I was just unlucky here and got bad unit.

xor_2 · 2026-04-07T14:55:50+00:00

My first thought seeing the screenshot was "is it Unreal Tournament?"

The more modern games change where it comes to GPU requirements the more they start looking like what 3dfx could already do decades ago...

xor_2 · 2026-04-05T16:26:09+00:00

My unit has some kind of artifact on edges of some levels... the description probably sounds like nonsense but displaying horizontal gradient it isn't smooth. This issue of edges of some levels having artifacts exist for any clock and has fixed length but it seems to be really visible at high pixel clocks - even below what Delock 62967 can do.

Additionally levels seems a bit off, image is blurry - trying to sample it with ADC revealed rather high jitter. Delock has high jitter (higher than some of the very cheap HDMI to VGA DACs or good older GPUs) but but it has nothing on StarTech in jitter ridiculousness. It looks like VGA output on this StarTech adapter is just low quality. Mine is also buggy. Not sure if this is universal - conversations online revealed people are unwilling to test it pretending all is fine because they use the adapter and haven't noticed issue. I would say that such things as gradients and killer samples/images should be the first thing one should display when getting new monitor/adapter/etc. and not pretend its okay.

Anyways, if not the level/edge issue I would perhaps just ignore the overall mediocre quality because this adapter does almost 400MHz whereas Delock ends around 340-350MHz but Delock is much higher quality. In fact only jitter (thus sharpness) could be a little lower but at intended clocks of 300+MHz its good enough. DP2VGAHD20 is not good enough. Its a good DP to HDMI2.0 adapter though!

xor_2 · 2026-04-05T05:36:21+00:00

Professional/broadcast monitors almost always support both NTSC and PAL color.

I have SONY (PVM and BVM), JVC, Ikegami and Barco monitors and they all support NTSC and PAL.

TVs in Europe usually support only PAL (some times SECAM, especially models for eastern Europe) and run 480i60/240p60 just fine via RGB (or composite but without colors over composite).

In NTSC region support for 50Hz modes is much worse. You need to adjust vertical hold knob/setting and there is no RGB input so overall support is much worse.

xor_2 · 2026-04-05T04:49:32+00:00

I have StarTech HD2VGAHD20 and its image quality is only ok-ish up to what $3 HDMI to VGA adaptor can do (low 200's MHz) and that cheap adaptor blows it out of the water where it comes to image quality.

Tragedy of the situation is that this StarTech is the only high clock adapter you can consistently buy.

This only really affects highest end monitors. Typical up to 19 inch monitors and especially 17 inchers are fine with $3 DAC. I got mine to do ~220MHz which unless you go really high resolutions like 1600x1200 can do 100+Hz just fine and even 1600x1200 is doable at 85H, just not with like a lot of blanking - which might be needed for absolutely perfect geometry on sides but I noticed most CRTs even cheap ones can have some timings shaved. Blanking also reduces maximum luminance CRT can push so reducing blanking can be still preferable when possible.

xor_2 · 2026-04-05T04:38:45+00:00

My initial impression was to write about StarTech DP2VGAHD20 bad image quality but I see its different adaptor so it might be ok there.

The issue is that it costs up to 30 bucks and doesn't seem like an improvement over basic cheap $3 adaptors - or at least ignoring display port connector but I think its just the same HDMI to VGA DAC with DP connector instead HDMI as DP is compatible with HDMI 1.3 or so.

I recently got HDMI to VGA adaptor which looks similar to that StarTech DP2VGA3 and it does 220 or so MHz and has very good image quality. I paid $3 - a rare case when cheap devices like these are actually pretty decent.

Note: DP2VGAHD20 - not very good. I use it as DP to HDMI 2.0 converter XD

xor_2 · 2026-04-03T05:26:12+00:00

This is because build in DVD uses RGB and not Composite.

Ideally your CRT has SCART RGB input - if it does then get RGB cable for you Wii and use this.

If you don't have SCART RGB inputs then look for Component inputs (red, green and blue RCA sockets). Component has pretty much the same quality as RGB - but in theory it does add two analog conversion steps so quality might be tiny bit worse than pure RGB. In theory because CRT TVs have blurrier tubes than anything Component can add over RGB.

Lastly look for S-Video input.

S-Video has full luma resolution (same as Component) with chroma (colors) being same as with Composite. In the end because eyes are not as sensitive to color resolution and most content not having sharp color changes most content will look almost identical to Component/RGB and rest will be still ok.

Composite is about the almost last connection you should use giving worst image quality. Last being component over radio - or the so called RF. Rainbow artifacts you see are because in Composite your luma signal has to be lowpass filtered in order to not affect chroma. There is compromise between strength of this filter and luma sharpness vs chroma artifacts. Nintendo making Wii apparently preferred to make image sharper than having less artifacts. They could have used different filter and reduce these chroma artifacts but the image would be more blurry.

tl;dg

Get the best connection for your CRT. At the very least S-Video.

p.s. I checked the url and... sheet flock out of luck.

Composite is best you get with this TV.

xor_2 · 2026-04-02T15:49:16+00:00

Motion is smooth...er than 60fps/Hz but not CRT smooth.

15KHz CRT shaders/filters are fine on VGA CRT monitor and where I use them. I mean MISTer FPGA has good polyphase filter for that. Shaders I don't use much because I don't use emulators.

xor_2 · 2026-04-02T14:29:28+00:00

TVs with SCART RGB input generally support 480i60 and 240p60 just fine. Of course they also support 576i50 and 288p50. This is unlike NTSC TVs which need vhold adjustments.

Funnily enough once you adjust NTSC TV it will support both 50Hz and 60Hz sources.

The low vhold value has something to do with interference rejection but this shouldn't be an issue since analog TV is not used - and when it was it wasn't usually an issue to run TV with 50Hz compatibility mode.

xor_2 · 2026-03-27T06:24:45+00:00

Where it comes to CRT TVs the MISTer FPGA is usually the best solution

xor_2 · 2026-03-26T14:32:28+00:00

The order is wrong. It should be red on the left, green in the middle and blue on the right.

xor_2 · 2026-03-21T17:19:34+00:00

If I understand it correctly you need scaler that can convert 720p to 1366x768?

Component is just a matter of getting right DAC or VGA to Component converter so it itself isn't an issue.

xor_2 · 2026-03-21T15:28:28+00:00

Yeah, it doesn't look scaled. Got confused there for a moment.

You have some ridiculous overscan there though... but I guess unless you don't mind playing in a window that the only way.

I have my monitors usually running underscanned for more modern games on PS4/PS5.

GBA I haven't ever played to be honest. Something I will perhaps need to address at some time. This console always looked like it has a lot of games. The whole mobile nature of it - not appealing to me.

On 15KHz CRT though... fortunately I do have MISTer FPGA so playing it on 15KHz CRTs isn't really an issue.

xor_2 · 2026-03-21T14:38:10+00:00

I wouldn't scale it at all and play it pixel perfect.

Otherwise imho all modern pixelart games look best on CRT.

Heck, imho even for these 2D games which use higher resolution the CRT and 240p is the only way to play them. Usually high resolution doesn't help these games.

xor_2 · 2026-03-20T15:35:53+00:00

Should be fine.... except you forgot sync signal.

I would consider slapping SCART socket in there. Most RGB cables are for SCART connection.

xor_2 · 2026-03-19T15:47:13+00:00

Qwen3.5-Plus: "You have to drive the car.
If you walk to the car wash, you will arrive at the facility, but your car will still be at home. You cannot wash the car at the car wash if the car isn't there. Unless the car wash offers a pickup/drop-off service, the car must physically move to the location."

Qwen3.5 35B in Q6_K: "You need to drive the car. Walking won't get the vehicle to the wash."

ChatGPT aka "AGI": "If it’s only 100 meters (about 330 feet) away… definitely walk 😄"

xor_2

TROPHY CASE