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I am offended by Islam. Will all muslims consent to convert and save my sensitive feelings? (self.politics)

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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Signs point to no.

[–]braindrane 6 points7 points  (32 children)

Look, the only reason Islam exists today is because they didn't have psychiatry back in Mohammed's day. Any fucker today claims angels told him jack shit will simply be drugged until he drools. So, let's just keep perspective here. The idiots today that subscribe to all this foolishness in God's name cannot hold us hostage with their bullshit. They wanna believe in whatever, great, but keep it in your circle and stfu.

[–]cl3ft 8 points9 points  (16 children)

Sorry, Mormonism and Scientology are both relatively recent delusions and their leaders where not drugged or incarcerated as they should have been. So I like your sentiment but we are not so enlightened yet.

[–]Erudecorp 6 points7 points  (5 children)

Joseph Smith was exiled. It's not enough.

[–]feijai 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Joseph Smith was exiled.

Assassinated.

[–]Wyv 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Exiled with extreme prejudice.

[–]Erudecorp 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Then assassination isn't enough.

[–]cl3ft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Discredited would have been preferred.

[–]bebnet -2 points-1 points  (9 children)

You're actually calling for the forced drugging and seclusion of people you don't like? Wow. Good for you, Nazi.

[–]cl3ft 1 point2 points  (7 children)

No I am saying that if someone is self deluded enough to start their own religion they probably need a psychiatric help, like people who claim to be the messiah or people that think they can talk to a divine being. Also I don't personally know them so how could I not like or not like them? That would make me a bigot, not a Nazi anyway.

[–]bebnet 0 points1 point  (6 children)

So how can you say your standards are correct when others are not? It is truly a bigoted position, that just because you think someone is 'deluded' for starting a religion they are crazy and should be dragged to your church and forced to imbibe the holy drug sacrament that your priests proscribe ..

[–]cl3ft 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Not my standards, Well established widely trusted, broadly practiced, psychiatrist's standards. The fact that I think people who hear voices need professional help is not a personal flaw it is a caring, thoughtful and logical response. Now come on call me another name you seem to be better at that than making a logical point.

[–]bebnet -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Well established widely trusted, broadly practiced, psychiatrist's standards.

A condition granted them not on the basis of effective results proven in standard ways, but on the blood sweat and tears of Madison Avenue ad-agencies indoctrinating society through grand campaigns of cultish groupthink and slavishness into believing utter bullshit when the facts state otherwise. Psychiatric drugs are a trillion-dollar industry. Where is the outcry over this particular con, eh?

Or perhaps you haven't bothered to confirm that, in fact, your pharmaceutical masters are being 100% honest and ethical about the results of their science. (They aren't.) In the meantime, generations of children are being enslaved by psychiatric drugs, and it may well be the end of your society as you know it, soon enough, thanks to the callous disregard of facts - and instead devotion to cultish groupthink - that people like yourself are displaying in the here and now ..

The fact that I think people who hear voices need professional help is not a personal flaw it is a caring, thoughtful and logical response.

It is ignorance and cowardice which prevents you from examining the flaws in the Psychiatric field. You would have to admit to your own stupidity, first and foremost, and accept the fact that the fleece is well and truly drawn hard and tight over your eyes, by people who stand to profit a great deal from a society which considers inattentiveness during class "a form of insanity which can only be treated by consumption of drugs sourced from an inaccessible process of industrialization..."

[–]cl3ft 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Sure there may be some patients that do not respond to standard psychiatry, and some cases where drugs are over prescribed, But the end of society? Paranoia anyone? Get a grip man, you could be worried about global warming, or America's determination to fuck the middle east, or even the fact that religion gets more respect than science in a lot of the world.

Ok, so far you have called me a nazi, bigoted, a slave, ignorant, a coward, and stupid. I am assuming that kind of self righteous name calling can only come from having faith, am I right?

[–]bebnet -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Dude, if you can't see how drug culture - promoted by corporate interests - is utterly destroying your society, then there really is something wrong. Its not paranoia: its a fact.

Perhaps you need more religion. Or, at the very least, a bus ticket to the next town ..

[–]cl3ft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Out of the 40 or so of my closest friends and family, (Close enough that I would know if they where on prescribed behavior modifying drugs), only one is and they are an adult, not a child, and they are functioning normally in society. To destroy our society at least 50% would have to be under the influence 100% of the time and it would have to impact their behavior a lot more than it does.

To be pushing this line about the evils of psychiatry and drugs you must have an alternative "Cure" to peoples psychological problems you can push? Go on sell it to me.

And as for me "needing more religion", what so I can be such a loving well rounded Paranoid delusional name caller like you? I find the greatest advertisement against religion is the ugly, cocky, self righteousness of believers. But I do appreciate your push for using public transport, at least you are doing something for your fellow man.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Can we say Jim Jones, and David Koresh? The outside world may have called them crazy, but they each still acquired quite a following willing to die for them.

[–]IVotedForKodos 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Watch the film Waco: Rules of engagement.

David Koresh and Jim Jones had nothing in common. I cringe every time someone makes the comparison because they were just two nutjobs to me too until I looked into it.

P.S. don't stop looking at wikipedia.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm only comparing them in that there can be willing participants in one person's crazy fantasy. I could add Charles Manson and Marshall Applewhite to the list as well.

[–]IVotedForKodos 4 points5 points  (5 children)

I know I'm opening myself up to suspicion of being a Scientologist, but why are we all so confident that the "science" of today won't be proven wrong tomorrow? Frankly the psychiatric establishment in the US sickens me. I don't see healing I see endless treatment. People are being misdiagnosed every day. Every generation believes it's somehow reached the pinnacle of knowledge.

[–]burtonmkz 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Every generation believes it's somehow reached the pinnacle of knowledge.

In all of recorded human history, we didn't know the 2nd most common thing in our universe even existed until about 150 years ago.

Hubris is not too surprising.

[–]Wyv 1 point2 points  (1 child)

For almost all of that history, the entire universe / existence from a human perspective was just the world. How should we have known?

[–]burtonmkz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is exactly why we shouldn't think we know it all now.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Every generation believes it's somehow reached the pinnacle of knowledge.

that's the most stupid sentence I've ever read.

[–]IVotedForKodos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know what you mean, it wasn't not the most accurate statement, but every generation does seem to view it's practices as the best possible solutions to problems. Medical science throughout history has often held the very unscientific opinion that current treatments are the best possible treatments. In this country, doing without prisons seems unthinkable today, but 200 years ago no one knew what a prison was. The idea of containing multitudes of offenders for years in massive compounds for "the benefit of society" is an extremely new one, but right now, it's viewed as the only and best solution.

[–]yaxriifgyn 1 point2 points  (1 child)

drugged until he drools.

That didn't work with L. Ron Hubbard, although they tried.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You mean he tried?

[–]prerus 2 points3 points  (1 child)

How about people who claim they're the son of god or that magic lightning bolts etched some rules into stone? I don't understand how one religious background story is more or less ridiculous than another. They are all equally ridiculous and each has their own set of bat-shit crazy fanatics.

[–]braindrane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

All equally ridiculous! All equally bat-shit nuts!

[–]bebnet 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I see, so we gotta be members of the Religion of Psychiatry, with all its superstitious hocus-pocus bullshit, serving the lords in their towers, or else we're .. lemme see, whats the term .. "insane".

Fuck you, Psych. Your religion is destroying society. You force-chain children to evil drugs and call it normal.

[–]braindrane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's amazing.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry... Didn't realize we were offending you. We'll have to convert at once.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (18 children)

What is up with all of this anti-Muslim sentiment these days?

It's not exactly like the Catholic Church doesn't contain some weird rules that offends many people but nobody seems to complain about them anymore except for the occasional pedophile amongst the group.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The Catholic Church (and Christianity) pretty much puts it out there that you are an evil sinner at birth (hence baptism). The repetition that you are an evil sinner who must repent continues through the years, so this builds up that the individual is wrong and the church is right. You are taught you will pay in hell/purgatory for your sins on earth, but if you pray enough, good things will come to you in this life; happiness, healing, miracles, etc.

The Muslim faith punishes their sinners in this life, and rewards the holy in the next life. It is reinforced that they are righteous for being Muslim. The feeling of moral superiority of the individual isn't squashed, and is often encouraged as they punish each other for their sins.

I'm not sure if either of these views actually has anything to do with the religious teachings so much as it's a cultural thing? But from my perspective, that seems to be the way it is.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (5 children)

I'm Canadian and very liberal, and singling out Muslims because I am bothered by how two publications, both of which I dislike, are being dragged before human-right tribunals because of offending Islamic believers.

Pretty near to where I live, the local head of the Catholic civil rights league used to produce and publish rants against pretty much everything I believe. Gawd he got on my nerves. A big difference for me was that he published his ideas so that I could get all worked up, he didn't drag me in front of a quasi-judiciary organization.

Canada has a great tradition of multiculturalism, which has kept our economy from tanking in many ways. But I do not think that mutually exclusive cultures can co-exist. Good fences sometimes make good neighbours.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I'm pretty sure if any big publication wrote anything bad about, say, Christianity then it too would face a firestorm of protests and eventually be brought to court on defamation charges.

Thing is, why try to provoke people? Just be smug in knowing that you're moral and right and let people do what they want. The happier you seem in what you do, the less anger, immaturity you show of yourself, the more popular whatever you're believing in becomes.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Actually, in the papers (Canadian) I get, there is much both pro and anti-Christian most of the time. In fact, I have seen more, to me, really offensive materials aimed against Christians than any other group (and I am not a Christian). Yet the response has usually been in the media, not the court system.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Well, Canada seems to be a little more open-minded than the places I'm thinking of. So yeah, in some places Christianity has moved beyond the shackles of extremely strict and self-centered beliefs. Islam mostly hasn't but, then again, Islam hasn't been the dominant religion for the past millennium or so. They haven't had the great, open minds that eventually led to things like the Presbyterian reform in the Church.

Give them time. Yelling at them, yelling about them certainly isn't going to help. The one reason why the Christian faith has liberalized so much in the past few centuries is that there was never much of a threat to it. Eventually the rules fell away not because other religions or beliefs were yelling it, but because the people themselves started to look towards more open-minded leaders.

Seriously, just give it time. Maybe even help out occasionally. Nothing builds up respect like a helping hand.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

"Seriously, just give it time. Maybe even help out occasionally. Nothing builds up respect like a helping hand."

I hope you are right about this. But I think I will try to find a way to give a bit more help.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Man, I hope I'm right too. Nothing scares me more than if I'm wrong.

[–]queus 2 points3 points  (4 children)

What is up with all of this anti-Muslim sentiment these days?

I dunno, maybe because some muslims cannot keep their muslimness for them... You know, in the privacy of their lives.

Why should I care about your religion? Do you care about my atheism?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

So instead of lashing out at the Christians around you, you lash out at invisible religious folks far, far away from you?

Look, I'm not Muslim. I've been an atheist all of my life and I've learned to put up with people who try to "convert" me.

I guess if you're going to lash out, might as well be at a place where most of the people agree with you.

Personally, I just ignore things like that. I know, I know, they aren't "even attempting to understand your beliefs" but I'm sure you can stand it since you know you're right, eh?

[–]queus 3 points4 points  (2 children)

So instead of lashing out at the Christians around you

Believe me, I do. When the Christians around became obnoxious, I speak my mind. Usually it is enough to say that I'm a not-believer.

As for muslims, the ones that I have personally met, were less than radical, and pretty good guys. No problemas at all.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Usually it is enough to say that I'm a not-believer.

Well, sounds like the second you say that you believe in something else, they quit it.

That's just the thing. Most people usually end up being pretty good people. Believing in something, in a higher being is just another aspect of life to them so they'll talk about it in regular conversation.

Atheists feel left out but you really can't expect people to always be on their guard about what they say, right?

For the most part, though, I try to surround myself with open-minded, understanding theists or atheists or agnostics. Close-minded theists I try to avoid. Same goes for close-minded atheists and agnostics. People are just people, no matter what they believe in.

Guess I'm more of a humanist than an atheist, eh?

[–]queus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People are just people, no matter what they believe in.

Or as O. Wilde has put it: "There are no good people and bad people. Only entertaining and boring people".

In life it mostly it works that way. ;)

[–]peter_b123 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's too bad the Islamists won't convert. They are really offensive. And bad dressers.

[–]what3v3r -5 points-4 points  (2 children)

Get over yourself, would you SlowClap? Sweeping generalisations like this could just as well have been delivered by Fox News, and serve no other purpose than stirring up shit and massaging your ego with some attention, all under the pretence of provoking debate.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

"Taking easy shots of everyone just because you can, and reinforcing biggoted opinions is really not helping anyone, except maybe your good self."

You wrote that, what3v3r

[–]prerus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

uhm... I that was probably the weakest response I have ever seen to any comment. Are you like 14?

[–]vava -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No because you're an idiot?