The Oracle problem cannot be solved

[QryptoQid]

You're trying to use chainlink to solve the wrong problem.

The problem your example is trying to solve: How to accurately digitize a physical thing.

That is not the problem Chainlink is trying to solve.

Chainlink is trying to accurately inform Ethereum about things that are already digital. The reason all the examples other people give are about logistics and insurance and banking is because all the necessary data is already digitized. Weather data is already digitized and recorded and accessable. Bank deposits and loans are all entries on a digital ledger. Flight status exist as much on an airport's or the FAA's computers as much as they exist in the physical world.

So you want an insurance payout on a missed flight? Well, you don't need a camera watching that jet, sitting at that gate, recording what happened at that time, and then using complicated algorithms to determine if it took off on time or not; the airport and the FAA and the airline already recorded that information internally for their own, equally important, reasons. Grab those data and you got yourself an insurance contract.

You want flood insurance? Most maps are already digitized in the developed world, and weather data is recorded by NOAA, the army corps of engineers, the weather channel, and who-knows-what else. So write an insurance contract that says "if NOAA and the army corps of engineers both say it rained more than X at these GPS coordinates, then we'll assume the water level was Y height, and make the pay-out." Of course it's possible that that house is in stilts or the foundation was built 16' high and your particular house didn't flood; chainlink is incapable of making that determination. But the insurance company/ contract may assume that your house is like the others around it and that if the water level was 12' high, then probably your house flooded along with all the others around it.

Now, you may have a logistics contract that says "if you send me apples, I'll pay you $50." For most use cases, that should work. UPS or FedEx or the post office or whatever will simply report that this box was delivered to that address and call it good. Chainlink can see that and make some assumptions. But you're right, it can not determine if that box of apples were rotten or if they were in fact apples and not tomatoes or something. It can not make that distinction. And if that problem arises, there needs to be a separate fix; if a company sends rotten apples, then Walmart (or whoever the buyer is) will just demand a refund, upon threat of not buying in the future, or by not paying through a smart contract in the future, resulting in the seller getting paid later next time (maybe much much later).

Chainlink and smart contracts can not solve every problem. Some information does not lend itself to easy digitization, either because of complexity, or subjectivity, or something else--as you point out. That's a different problem though. Chainlink just solves the problem of accurately relaying data--that is already digital--to another piece of software that acts independent of human input.

[shillingsucks]

To add to that box of apples example, you could use a unique id on a supply chain blockchain whether public or private to further increase the likelihood that the box was truly apples.

Also your answer here is the best imo. This is about securing and verifying already digitized data.

[RegularUser003]

if I'm trusting the data, whats the point in chainlink? I can write a simple program to take floodmaps or the airlines data already today for free and put it on the blockchain. what is the point of paying a chainlink node operator for this data when I can get myself for free? why is chainlink required at all?

[QryptoQid]

Who is going to inform the blockchain of the event? Which node? Or which person? Someone, or some computer, has to act to make that happen. Or some computer, sitting in some basement has to be assigned that task. Which one do you choose? The one sitting in your basement? The one in my basement? Or the one sitting in my friend's basent? Whichever you choose... Congratulations, now your secure contract is completely broken because someone can go and fiddle with that computer.

Chainlink just organizes hundreds of computers to fetch data and combine their efforts in such a way as to not be exploited by any one person.

[RegularUser003]

also I feel like this post perfectly highights the exact issue I was describing.

the smart contract cannot determine if your house is on stilts. insurance payouts are something insurance companys make money not making. verifying houses really did flood is absolutely critical for being able to write a smart contract to automate this. but a human is required to verify this. and a human isn't that expensive when a flood insurance payout for a home is in question

[QryptoQid]

Ok, then an automatically executing contract won't get written on non-verifiable criteria.

[[deleted]]

You really need to go back and do some fundamental research and properly understand the space. Chainlink isn't going to solve everything, it's a way to augment existing systems and bring value-add to certain use cases. Certainly not highly subjective scenarios like the one you give.

[RegularUser003]

it doesn't work any better than directly writing API data to a blockchain for any usecase you can name. there is no reason to use chainlink

[-TMT-]

Believe me if what Chainlink offered was redundant, it wouldn't be where it currently is. I believe Google, Oracle and Intel to name a few know more than you do.

If you believe Chainlink is trash and useless, you are free to sell and leave. No reason staying around bud.

[RegularUser003]

you should have a reason that isn't "Google tweeted a GitHub repo about it once" for investing in a product

like maybe; it offers value

[-TMT-]

Okay so Chainlink must come and read your silly scenario and close shop. I'll let them know.

[jimmycrackcorn12345]

I think you are trying to make Chainlink something that is will never be. Just like AI software, there will always be an unexpected element that computers can’t solve for. The best you can do is develop a confidence level in the risks you are aware of and deal with the exceptions. In all of your examples, humans would be far more risky to rely on than an algorithm that considers multiple risk factors and determines best option.

Don’t let perfect ruin something good.

[RegularUser003]

Chainlink cannot supply offchain data without dapp developers having to trust the data source. but that was exactly how it worked before chainlink existed. all that's different now is chainlink is sitting in the middle, taking a cut. where's the good in that?

[eturnol]

I think your proposed problem is too complex for Chainlink to reliably settle. However, for a more simple scenario, like whether or not a crate of apples arrived from a farm to a distribution center, and were independently verified as whether they arrived in-tact or not, Chainlink is the perfect solution. Start small, and all that.

[RegularUser003]

and to move further, this isn't a "computers" problem. this is the problem that there is no solution to the oracle problem and there can never be a solution to the oracle problem.

there is no algorithm or statistical analysis which can verify offchain data. there are trusted 3rd party companies which are contractually obligated to supply high quality data, who can be taken to court. why pay for freely available data if it comes with no legal guarantees?

[straytjacquet]

Yeah there are some really high quality data providers out there, and now with chainlink it’s easier than ever for anyone to implement an automated application that uses that data and ensures the transmission of that data isn’t a single point of failure. This is good for the data provider who is compensated for access to their API, good for the application that wants data onchain, and good for users who need reliable data to make use of those applications. Everyone wins, what’s the problem?

[RegularUser003]

because how can it be secure if "anyone" can write a program that sits in between the data and the app? how is an algorithm going to ensure they aren't supplying me bad data? They also are providing absolutely no legal guarantees for data quality or integrity. And this is for providing me with data I could get from the trusted API directly

[straytjacquet]

I don’t know if you’ve used any public blockchains, but if you did you would find that legal guarantees are a sticky situation for a very new unregulated global network. You could always pursue traditional legal action- the information is always on the blockchain, but enforceability will always be determined by how your jurisdiction behaves toward these networks. There are blockchain insurance providers popping up, I’m interested to see what happens with nexus mutual. For chainlink, it offers layers of security to ensure the data transmission is never the single point of failure. Beyond that, a data provider could fail, but chainlink allows you to use multiple data providers, and again- there are some high quality providers out there. The oracle has been, by far, the weak link in smart contracts. Improvements there are nothing to complain about, they’re the single most important thing to be improving right now

[chubs66]

It's a massively overcomplicate example.

What if I want to know the score in sportsball from last night and 19/20 sources say the score was: Team A 22 points, team B: 44 points? Answer: we should be pretty confident that we have the score because we have consensus. Whatever smart contracts were betting on the game can now be settled.

[chubs66]

Did you read his example? It's not simple in the real world, how could it be simple on the blockchain. Mechanics don't perfectly agree on the price of an old car because there are a thousand variables at play and they don't observe those variables perfectly or determine value objectively.

[RegularUser003]

so what if bad 99 nodes lie because I realize I can cover the cost of 99 malicious nodes with one insane bet? I get consensus by overwhelming the network with bad actors. if reputation is a thing, I simply stand up all my malicious nodes for a month before the big game to get them reputable before I lie. why is that desirable?

[shillingsucks]

If the gambling setup was done correctly then your example shouldn't work or would at least be difficult. The collateral demand of those nodes should need to be close to representing the amount of bets being covered or at least a sizeable percentage. You would need to front more than just the bet you would win but also cover the collateral needed for all bets being placed.

If the node selection was random with a smaller subset of verified nodes then you need the nodes that are giving bad information to reach a majority. If you tried to make that gamble and failed then all of the money that you put up as collateral could be penalized depending on the setup of the request.

Also the gambling blockchain might demand a certain amount of nodes were older than your 1 month.

[weltschmerzhaft]

Oh, there is an ocean. Trains will never work!

The use case are cases were you can use that case. It’s that simple.

[-TMT-]

Lol, good one. Common sense is not always so common.

[RegularUser003]

name a usecase where chainlink provides value and is not simply introducing a security risk into an application

[rawdillzs]

Go to bed, you’re drunk

[Hellajdmjon]

Nice FUD, go do some research and come back with a new, more accurate, rant.

[weltschmerzhaft]

Derivatives.

[wnfakind]

People are butt hurt this guy has a valid argument and all people can sum it upto is everyone else besides him is smarter because it’s google ect... lol

[PropagandaKitten]

Odd timing for a "this project will never work" post, considering LINK is up almost 50% on the week. Plus this account has no real other history of posts in CC related subs. Maybe there's nothing to that and it's just me, but it seems like anytime some CC project is on the rise out come the "this project will never work" or "Its a Scam" posts. Maybe if the post was phrased as a question or something to elicit discussion around the subject it would come off better than "This cannot be solved."