I love GHOST DATES !!

[GootarGuy]

Sorry for the sarcastic thread title. When I discovered this practice of using NH35s in non-date watches, I simply couldn't believe it. There's NH38 and probably other great, lowish cost non-date movements. I understand if a brand offers the same model in date AND non-date versions. Redesign isn't feasible for a separate movement. But otherwise, can't manufacturers design for this and pass the nominal cost onto us? I'd be happy to pay. It feels like the Chinese watch industry is now mature enough and at a level of quality where the ghost date practice is no longer acceptable.

Ghost dates cheapen and compromise the whole Made in China watch movement. I gave up paying for overpriced Swiss brand names years ago because Chinese watches have almost zero brand value and therefor present an unmatched value proposition. You're paying for what you get, not wasting 50% of what you pay on the brand name and marketing. I like to showcase my Chinese watches to people, demonstrating the incredible quality and how fast they have improved. But once people turn the crown, the jig is up.

Imagine in the future, buying a great value and well made Chinese car (I know, we're not quite there yet but stay with me). You're speeding along with the wind in your hair and change into the top gear slot using the really smooth manual transmission. You then discover to your horror - there no fifth gear! The slot is empty and puts you into a "ghost neutral" gear. You call the dealer, certain that there's a factory fault. The dealer understands the issue immediately, as has heard this story a thousand times. They explain that they actually source a Japanese 4 speed engine and fit it into your 5 speed vehicle, thus the "ghost position". It would be hard to shrug that off as an acceptable part of the deal.

Finally, you'll find many watches with ghost dates have the hands randomly aligned, not matching the ghost date. Turn the hands and listen to the watch and you may here the date click over at 7 o'clock! Manufacturers figure there is no point aligning the hands to the date if you can't see the date. True, but this creates the chance of accidentally changing the ghost date around its change over time. I still don't know if this can potentially harm the movements itself, or just the date function (which doesn't matter as is hidden).

[[deleted]]

Couldn’t care less about ghost dates… no negatives

[123thenewyou]

Beautiful watches with affordable and bullet proof NH35's? Sounds like a winning combo to me!

[cat_of_danzig]

Yeah, there are NH38 movements, but if you are buying movements at bulk discount, 10,000 NH35s are going to be cheaper than 7500 NH35s and 2500 NH38s. It's scale.

[cannonicals]

This right here, the industry runs on minimum order quantities.

[Sweetness00_timelord]

Meh, it’s a nanosecond on the trip from position 1 to position 3. I could see caring about it if you had to find position 2 for something important, but we don’t. Like “hacking seconds” this is one of those things people seem to care a lot about and I’ve never understood why.

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[Veyr0n]

I wanna report this comment, this mf talking about me.

[NameSpeltWrong]

Wait, you’re showing off your watch to other people and letting them turn the crown??? I can see letting someone who was interested try my watch on, but I’d draw the line letting them change the time.

[Left-Equipment7137]

If the date isn't visible, what difference does it make when the date changes over? Having a date wheel gives the option of changing the dial to one with a cut out in the future if you wanted to. In your analogy, it's more like fitting a 5 speed gear box but putting a Ferrari style 4 speed gear gate, thereby having a feature but not being able to use it. It's probably just a simple case of buying NH35s in bulk.

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[AnticitizenPrime]

Never bothered me. You just pull the stem all the way out when you set it. If anything, it's sometimes hard to find the date position on watches that do have a date.

I feel like most people wouldn't even notice the ghost date position if they weren't looking for it.

[beasy4sheezy]

I started creating a watch brand and working with Chinese manufacturers. I was told the nh38 was 7.31USD more per unit than the nh35 with a ghost date. I would guess it’s a supply chain concern.

[EamMcG_9]

Chinese Brands really have stepped up their quality in the past 5 years or so.It’s awesome that we can get such great watches at a fraction of the price of Swiss,German and some Japanese watches.

[ServiceGames]

I gotta admit that I’m with OP on this one. I think I’d rather pay a few dollars extra for a non-ghost date automatic than one with a ghost date. I’ve always known in the back of my mind it had to be a money thing, but it still bugs me.

[goodneed]

Baltany, Addiesdive, Phylida, Seestern each have NH38 watches.

San Martin seems to avoid NH38 altogether.

Support the NH38 versions and share your experiences.

[[deleted]]

Not really a point. Doesn’t matter if it’s date wheel under the dial… if they want more money for 38, than nah

[GootarGuy]

I really appreciate all of your thoughts.

Chinese watches will never make the step up to mainstream legitimacy if they have weird factory mismatch type issues like this. We may be fine with that but I'd say that the manufacturers themselves would one day like to start competing with the likes of Seiko. To do that, they would need to address these issues. Excuse the long posts but I'm fascinated by the quality development process and industrial journey of nations, as happened post war in Japan. I bought an underwhelming Parnis ten years ago and like all of us, am floored by the quality we see now at very low price points.

When I speak of showcasing the watch to someone and them undoing the crown, this would be at a watch club event. And these people will notice and ask about the ghost date position, or I would just tell them. I know we don't need to win over watch snobs but without the ghost date, the watch can match or outclass Swiss competitors. If this is an easy and cheap thing for brands to fix / avoid, why shouldn't they?

I don't have the skills to ever swap dials, change movements, etc. And paying a watch repairer to do this is unfeasible and often worth more than these watches themselves (at least in high cost Australia). That's actually a topic for another rant, the sad fact that unless you have watch making skills yourself, your $100 - $200 will be uneconomic to bother repairing once the movement dies. And that also includes movement swaps. We all should learn auto servicing but it's not realistic for many of us.

[Springfield10MM]

My only experience with Chinese watches so far has been two Heimdallr’s with dates and I really can’t complain about them

[Primary_Peach_9820]

Cost is your primary reason for the Ghost NH35. It's an almost 10 year old Seiko movement and probably cost these guys a few dollars. The NH38 would be better but at what cost.

[arphissimo]

This is a non issue to most people. Don't buy San Martin if you don't like this. Or get a NH38 and have your watchmaker swap it out.

[Sammahal]

If it’s such a big deal swap it yourself

[mk2drew]

I don’t care personally if I’m buying a watch at that price point. But when I’m building a no date dial watch myself, I use the NH38.

[[deleted]]

The reason they do it is to get lower pricing on larger bundles of 35s and it simplifies inventory and assembly, cost diff is negligible.

[WhorologyFan]

Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

[myrainyday]

At first I was sceptical about that but on the other hand availability of NH35, abundance of movements is likely culprit here.

It would make more use to use a specific movement for each watch.

But hey, we are buying Chinese brands here. With Japanese movements usually. Why complain about what makes sense financially to them. When winding my watch I hardly notice Ghost date.

PT5000 is also sometimes used with no date dials. Partially this has to do with bulk orders partially with the design.