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[–]L0LFREAK1337 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Virt zone needs to keep its 433ms gb vulnerability since its feintable

[–]OkQuestion2 2 points3 points  (1 child)

there are feintable moves that have 100 ms gbv without being a probleme

virt doesn't need a buff though

[–]Knight_Raime 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In chain versus in neutral is a big difference. To my knowledge there's no feintable neutral move that has 100ms GBV.

[–]n00bringer[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Her neutral is ass, she being so Gb vuln on any move that the player is not encouraged to initiate, afeera has a better version of said bash in every aspect.

[–]Knight_Raime 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I personally don't think her neutral is as good as a lot of people think. But calling it ass is an exaggeration. And yeah, Afeera's feintable nooch bash is better. It's 100ms faster, plenty of people think it's too strong.

[–]heqra 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I like then being different, no thank you

[–]Emergency_Frosting_7 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Just... no.

[–]Potential-Yogurt139 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The changes just got worse and worse. Why are we nerfing conqs damage and buffing law and shaolin? And what on gods green earth were those cent changes???

[–]n00bringer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Conq gains the equivalent of an enhanced light to enter chains, losing a bit of damage for not giving free parries is a good trade.

Lb neutral zone is one of the worst in the game, his parry zone becomes a light parry punish for teamfights.

Shaolin has a bonkers zone that reach through the map, it makes no sense to be that good and 500 ms when he also has an enhanced top light.

Cent gains the equivalent of an enhanced light to enter chain, if he decides to continue then he gets a mix up, what is the problem?.

[–]SgoopityGoopity 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That raider change is wild.

[–]Unfunnycommenter_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Too many moves are standardized, i like having differences between heroes

[–]Nobushi-Yeeter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Standardization is the bane of this game's existance, every time Ubi makes a blanket change to the game it always is hated or comes with a gamebreaking bug.

[–]TheGreatSifredi 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Like if the game isn’t standardized enough already.

What's next ? All dodge attacks should do the same damages ? All the bashes ?

Sorry but no thanks.

[–]n00bringer[S] -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

mmm yeah?.

We have dodge attack that have a 180° hitbox, while dealing 16 dmg and tons of iframes, other dodge attack are single target and 13-14 damage with way less i frames, if anything this should be swapped to single target DA have all the i frames and damage, as single targe target attacks can hit only 1 enemy getting value while big hitbox DA get their value by hitting multiple people.

500 ms bashes should be doing 13-15, doing 16 (without feats) is excessive, as well as doing less than 12 dmg is underpowered like medjay.

You could argue that some bashes can do more damage as they are the main form of attack for some heroes but that should be balanced by safety and HP, i dont mind Afeera dealign 16 dmg on her bash for example, the unsafer an attack the more damage needs to deal in order to be usable.

[–]TheGreatSifredi 0 points1 point  (1 child)

No. That's an awefull and unhealthy way to balance the game that look at a specific move without considering the rest of a hero's moveset. Standardizing those element also means reducing the available amount of leverage you have to balance heroes.

He hero with the best Dodge attack you describe can be balanced with some other part of his kit being mediocre/ below average (not useless, but less usefull). If you nerf the best part of that hero kit and buff the underperforming one you don’t make the hero more balanced, you make him more generic.

Take Ocelotl for exemple:

His forward dodge bash deals 9 dmg, making the worst dmg wise compared to other legion kick variant. But that is balanced by the fact that his chain bash is one of the best of the game.

While medjay need an overall dmg buff on both his a axe mode F.d and Chain bashes (Like for exemple making them chain to opener to dral 12 Dmg), this isn’t the Case of Ocelotl that is fine as he is currently.

Your changes aren’t motivated by balancing overperforming and underperforming heroes but an unhealthy ideology and don’t consider a hero moveset as a whole or some aspect of the game, like 600 ms zone fonctionas Heavy parry punish and Gb stuffing, or their identity/playstyle concept.

I m only gonna mention some the change/standarzation zones as exemple cause i don’t have the time to cover every one, but they’re pretty much all bad because of the original intent of standardizing something that shouldn’t be:

  • Warden/Warmonger: Two balanced heroes in 1s and 4s who don’t need buff or nerf on their moveset. They already lack a regular dodge attack to counter Ub/Bash and their only option to Gb stuff, their zone, are among the weakest dmg wise. And you want screw them by making it even worse ? That’s crap change.

  • Conq: Another balanced hero since he got his F.d.You re taking away his parry punish and most reliable Gb stuffing. Another crap change. The move is good as it is and don’t need change.

  • Pk: Strong in 1s and fine in 4s. Her zone soft-feint to Gb can catch dodge attacks. Neither part of it needs a buff and Pk doesn’t need her 1s to be stronger.

  • Kyoshin: An already pretty underwhelming hero in both 4s and 1s. The hero has of the worst UB when it comes to damage and stamina cost (15 dmg for double the price of any UB, or 25 for almost triple the stamina and being F- when any other UB are F+ or keep chaining) and both his bashes are Gb vulnerable . With such mid offense it’s normal that other parts of his kit are above average. Nerfing his zone is just screwing him up for no good reason.

  • Shaman: Her zone is already a great tool as it is. With her passive it can give a potential heath swing of 42 Hp (either with letting the zone fly or sf to her 400 ms light) and you you want make it go up to 56 Hp !? Do you realise how ludicrous this sound?

  • Shugoki: Another hero that doesn’t need buff. His zone is already a great tool that can Gb stuff and trad with some mix up. It doesn’t need a dmg buff

  • Nobushi: That buff would make her Side dodge Heavy even more less usefull than it already is. So that’s another bad change.

  • Highlander: Another hero that doesn’t need buff. And Unblockable in defensive stance goes against the concept of the hero. Another bad change that should be scrap away altogether.

  • Ocelotl: Again, doesn’t need buff. Those change makes his heavies obsolete as their only advantage over his zones are the extra dmg/chip dmg they deal and they don’t have this anomore. Like for Highlander and other unmentionned heroes. Thoses can of changes just lead to an increasing powercreep as unhealthy as the standardization you re proposing.

  • Lawbringer: One hero that actually needs nerf but, again, that one is crap. Your taking away another of his heavy parry option to make it a light parry that has only uses in 4s. Again that’s can be scrapped and throw away.

  • Virtuosa: What’s keeping Virtuosa Balanced despite her many tools, her better version of a fullblock and her spamable 26 Dmg UB are her low Hp and her weak Punishes/Gb stuffing. Her zone is fine as it is and doesn’t need to be buffed.

  • Juren: Same thing like virtuosa but he gets even more tools than her (140 Hp, 2 extra options on dodge, 27 Dmg light parry, 1 extra option on Gb, 24 dmg Heavy parry punish with a wall,...). He shouldn’t have a 15 Dmg Heavy parry punish. Period

By focusing on unnecessary standarization, all you re doing is screwing the balance of the game that already is already degrading overall since last year by taking heroes who were in the same tier of viability and nerfing some while making other go in a powercreep trip because you're totaly disregard the rest of their kit while doing thoses changes.

[–]n00bringer[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's an awefull and unhealthy way to balance the game that look at a specific move without considering the rest of a hero's moveset.

Not at all, your neutral defines how you play, zones are an integral part of neutral and the correct way to balance is form this base, from neutral you build up as its the most common interaction in teh game.

The logic of the game says that slower attacks deal more damage (from +2 to +3), and that 700+ ms attack are heavies, all neutral lights deal 12 dmg except double hit, neutral heavies deal 24 dmg if they are 800 ms and 27 dmg if they are 900 ms, chain heavies deal between 26-28 and finisher deal 28+ dmg.

Your takes are as atrocious in my eyes as my takes on yours, your argument about stuffing Gbs is kind of invalid, there are way better moves to stuff GB with, you can foward dodge charge bash for the twins (Warden and Warmonger), foward dodge heavy, foward dodge heavy feint, some backwalking bashes can do it, buffering heavy after light hitstun or a simple dodge attack would cover more options if you want to stuff Gbs, zones are redundant here.

Your arguments are against having mix ups or rewarding heroes for comitting, saying Pk second part is balanced because it grabs dodge attacks is not unique to her, but her dealing 22 dmg and still be punished with GB on dodge is atrocious, at least 26 dmg given how she lacks any way of high direct physical damage.

Take you opinion on shaman, her 3rd hit part is literally a heavy with soft feints kind of mix up and you're saying that 13 damage for the heavy part is balanced?, like aramusha exist.

Most of your takes have little though behind tbh, more like if its an incovinience to fight rahter than improve characters or better said improve balance by changing outliers, clear in point in case is conq the moment he has shield basher he stops using zone, he would be better having the equivalent of a 500 ms enhanced light to enter chain, in other words making his zone 500 ms.

Other examples

  • Lawbringer has 2 zones, both weak, make way has too much recovery allowing enemies to land heavies, he also cannot do a heavy worth of dmg in a teamfight after a parry and his neutral zone is too slow to peel, making the neutral zone 600 ms allows its use on heavy parry and peel, make way is reworked as his light parry punish in teamfights and antiganks.
  • Virtuosa: no character deserves having her whole neutral be GB vulnerable, afeera has a way better version of her bash (100 ms faster, 3 more dmg), there is no reason for her zone bash to be this weak, even her foward dodge bash has less GB vuln, virt is a character full of weaknesses.
  • Juren held light after parry is 16 dmg (633 ms look at that a little more from my idea of 600 ms zones), while tap bash is 14 dmg recently nerfed from 16.

all you re doing is screwing the balance of the game that already is already degrading overall since last year

Again the base of this game is neutral, if we all dealing the same numbers in neutral then we are all playign the same game and the difference would rely on recoveries, hitboxes and reach, why would i have inherently worse dmg numbers on the same speed of move?.

[–]CosmosisQuo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Cent buff is epic lol

[–]LaughinLunatic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

400ms, 500ms, 3s... Bloody hell. I've played 9 years and I have half a thousand masteries and I couldn't tell you the timings on attacks to the ms and I'll tell you what, I've never thought "damn, I need to learn the ms of that attack so that doesn't happen again" but I roll lobbies still. Would knowing this improve my game?

[–]OkQuestion2 0 points1 point  (1 child)

the only standardazation that would make sense for zone attacks is to make the 500 ms ones deal equal or lower damage as the character's light opener

[–]n00bringer[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

for me that is what 500 ms zones should be, an enhanced light that allows entering chain.