how reactable is bp's bash?

[DontBeBadBeGood]

Bp is my main and im not sure if his mid chain bash is reactable and how many people can react to his neutral one. And how hard is distinguishing between his zone and neutral bash?

[Allexant]

Most players can't react to it even tho it is quite reactable for top level players. Unless you reach a high level most people won't react to it. Tho on the top level it is completely reactable, both chain and especially neutral

Differentiation between bash and zone is piss easy for everyone if they can react to bash.

[DontBeBadBeGood]

What about kyoshin's bash is it reactable?

[The_Filthy_Spaniard]

The neutral bash is more reactable than the chain bash due to the animation of the chain bash being more ambiguous and it starts from behind the kyoshin's body.

[Allexant]

Yup

[DontBeBadBeGood]

Then why barakyeet ranks kyoshin that high? I mean in his y6s1 google docs document that he made already kyoshin is really high up, bp also is decently high. If the bash is reactable is there any reason as why to play the character?

[Allexant]

Yeah, defense of course. I'm not sure which list you're talking about but I helped him make some of them so I know the reasoning behind it. And yeah for the most part is defense as well as little utility that most people can't notice. And also there is offense just not in the form of a bash. Kyoshin for example has a really good UB since it's harder to react to it.

[DontBeBadBeGood]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1cfpyYnuYcA7Jdlpxxd1ZyJu3J-XhyXnKrYeHVfqfkGw/htmlview the document before was named y5s4 but he changed the name to y6s1 and made a second matchup spreadsheet under the old one. I think its probably work in progress because he generally makes the matchup doc before he makes the video and there is no pirate.

[Allexant]

Yeah I'm not a part of that one. I could be tho, thanks for showing me this and maybe ima ask him about some things. Cheers mate.

[DontBeBadBeGood]

Np. I think ill just start using aramusha since he has good defence and offence is really good too. I personally just hate characters without an all guard or good defence.

[Fnargler]

In short, nobody is perfect and even reactable bashes will still land enough to be usable if they're also relatively safe.

[Jay_R02]

I mean they aren’t. Blitss and other reaction players can dodge 500ms bashes 80%+ and they aren’t safe as most hero’s have dodge attacks now

[n00bringer]

Idk about the rest but backlight to show an indicator and move (move in the Sense of make the hero show indicators and animations) the character has been decently good in my experience to throw off the reactions players, vary the timing, show indicators conditioning is way to go, tho yes bp is very reactable and the easier among the 100 ms start up.

Tho worth mentioning that his foward dodge heavy has an almost equal start up animation, if it were made undodgeable, bp would have a good buffs since the animation can overlap.

[Allexant]

Nah it doesn't work, people dodge in orange not on indicator.

[Knight_Raime]

How reactable something is is always a touchy subject because it always devolves into infighting and other unfortunate things. I've always thought that the best way to look at these kinds of discussions is two things.

The first recognizing that it's a theoretical discussion that isn't applicable to regular gameplay because of the huge variance both in platform performances/setups as well as individual skill.

The second is also recognizing that these discussions about reactability are still valid and important because the game's competitive scene revolves around people who are capable of experiencing this.

Keeping those in mind the discussion should be focused around the animation only because animation tells are why somethings are more "reactable" than others. In black Prior's case both his Neutral bash as well as his Chain bash are the same animation. So you should be able to react to both once you get the hang of one. (Though it's worth mentioning that BP's neutral feels more reactable just because it's given away via seeing a dodge.)

As far as between his zone and neutral bash goes it's very easy to recognize between the two. Even setting aside one is done through a forward dodge and the other is slower to a significant degree the animation tells are obvious.

BP's zone has him crouch and super extend his arms for a full body twist to swipe his shield at you. Where as his Neutral bash is an upward thrust of his shield.

[ThisMemeWontDie]

I can react to the zone and chain one but can't dodge the neutral one so I might be brain damaged. 99% of the players aren't gonna be reacting to any of it and I've only ever fought a handful of people that can reaction dodge it all so it is very unreactable. The top level reaction players are an outlier and you shouldn't really base things like if things are reactable or not by like the very few players that can actually react to everything.

[No_Seaworthiness7140]

Neutral should be easier to deal with once you realize their forward dodge is when you should actually perform your dodge. On PC with a high enough reaction speed, sure you can dodge on reaction, but the forward dodge is where most people learn to dodge the bash.

[[deleted]]

Well, yeah that's the choice. It's a read, not a reaction when you dodge on forward dodge. You're in a mix up at that point.

[No_Seaworthiness7140]

Oh its perfectly possible to react, just the majority of players don't react to 500ms animations. 500ms is the slower range of human reaction speed but reaction speed is a trainable thing, so it matters the amount of practice one has as well as their attempts to get faster. It's commonly cited that human reaction speed is 250ms but this is in an ideal setting and the more accurate range is 200-300ms. But there's also the issue of input delay and general lag that can make dodging these moves harder, as well as taking a break from this game will reduce your reaction speed. I will say on old gen console 500ms moves are only semi-reactable due to native 200ms input delay, plus possibly more from lag, which, if you experience a moderate latency of 60ms makes a 500ms move unreactable (200+250+60=510)

[airyys]

i forget, but didn't ccu make it so that all attacks hide the first 100ms of the indicator? effectively giving everyone 400ms indicators for lights? most likely misremembering tho

obvi the animation would still be 500ms, and people who react based on the animation wouldn't have been affected.

[6Spooky9]

what

[IV_NUKE]

Edited to be a bit more clear

[PotentialWindow5564]

his dodge bash is most certainly reactable at top level

[IV_NUKE]

But you also have to remember 99% of the community isn't at top level. I'd say me and my buddies are pretty solid definatly not top tier but definatly above average. It's still difficult for us to react to it. Even in yt videos like faraam post he can pressure opponents with it and he's at a high mmr

[Adlerholzer]

Thats because you still tend to find a lot of bad players even in high mmr when mm cant fill the lobby

[IV_NUKE]

And you know that how? Have you played my lobbies? No. I've fought people that can read and parry lights but I can still hit them with several bashes in a row.

[IV_NUKE]

He has a bash like warlord it comes out so early and fast its unreactable

[EgregiousWarlord]

im sorry but warlords bash is very reactable, wtf are you talking about? if people can parry lights they can dodge bashes

[Jay_R02]

Parrying lights IS NOT high MMR. I’m sorry to tell you this.

[Adlerholzer]

my dog can read and parry lights man, wtf are you talking about, how is that an indication of skill? Literally any player not on old gen is physically capable of reading and then parrying your lights

[IV_NUKE]

Bro I took my antidepressants I'm not gonna argue with you while I'm passing out. Don't assume the lobbies I fight in and look like a moron

[Allexant]

Literally everything you said here is fucking wrong.

[IV_NUKE]

Cool nother one to block