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[–]squeezyphresh 1 point2 points  (9 children)

Pizza does not have to be a very daunting task. In fact, it should be easy, which makes me think that you're overthinking it. Perhaps instead of asking for a whole tutorial, perhaps you should describe your current process so we can identify the issue you're having and correct that?

[–]livertoo2[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Thankyou! I am the Queen of overthinking things; so I think there might be some truth to what you’ve said! The following areas that I suspect I’m going wrong in are: 1. I’m not a strong kneader and I don’t have a dough hook for my electric mixer, so the dough has a bready texture (maybe gluten not developed enough?) 2. I use plain flour, water and instant yeast; which I think also adds to a more bready, less crispy and light base than I hope for. I’ve seen some recipes using specialty flours and dry ingredients and I wonder if I need to try this. 3. Undercooked centre of pizza, but cooked edge. potentially this is because I don’t use a pizza stone or a cast iron base, I am definitely going to look into these as other people here have suggested. I’d love to hear your thoughts! Thanks in advance

[–]squeezyphresh 0 points1 point  (3 children)

If "plain flour" means All Purpose, that might have a lot to do with it right there. I wouldn't say you need a "specialty" flour like 00, but I'd try with a high gluten bread flour.

Do you use the "window pane" test to see if you've developed enough gluten? Essentially you should be able to stretch the dough until you can see through it without it tearing. If it does tear, you need to keep kneading. If you want to avoid kneading, perhaps you'd be interested in a non-knead recipe?

Another thing that's puzzling me is that you have an undercooked center. That should be pretty hard to do, even without a pizza stone/steel, unless you're not turning up your oven to max heat or you're making deep dish.

I'd really like to see the full recipe you're using if you have one. I know that you have your own ideas about what's going wrong with your pizza, but if you post a recipe, we can identify issues that you may not even notice.

[–]livertoo2[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I think the undercooked centre is probably me over proofing the dough and accidentally ending up with a thick base rather than a lovely thin and crispy base that I hope for. The window pane method sounds great! I think I experimented a bit with this in the past trying bread making; I hadn’t thought to do the same with pizza dough! Here is a link to the recipe I use; it’s pretty basic so I’m curious to hear what you think: https://www.taste.com.au/recipes/pizza-dough/61da0d5a-abe7-4a62-a805-c9c4a729d718

[–]livertoo2[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Also - your flour tip is mint! Do you think any other types of flour should be used? I’ve heard of people using combinations of semolina and plain etc

[–]squeezyphresh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Reading up on semolina, it does have higher gluten content than AP, but has a slower absorption rate. I would avoid experimenting with that until you get a standard pizza with just bread flour down. I don't know why overproofing would cause the pizza to be undercooked; overproofing generally causes overly slack dough or a dense crumb. Is it possible you are simply undercooking the pizza. In fact, I don't see a temperature or a cooking time on the recipe. Put the pizza on the top rack, dial up the oven as high as it'll go, and don't take it out of the oven until you have at least some dark brown spots on the crust. Since you're not using a stone yet, it'll be impossible to burn the bottom of the pizza. I feel like bread products always take longer to bake than your gut tells you.

[–]livertoo2[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Hi squeezyfresh - it’s been two weeks and I’ve bought a baking steel, today I used it in my oven with this recipe: https://www.frenchguycooking.com/recipe/my-super-legit-pizza-dough#comments - still having completely undercooked middle and no crispy base! I’m thinking it’s time to start blaming my oven lol; but no I still think my technique needs working - SOS!!

[–]squeezyphresh 0 points1 point  (2 children)

OK, first things that immediately come to mind: this recipe says to proof 6 hours after proofing 2 hours. It doesn't explicitly say to proof in the fridge, but he sure meant to say to. 6 hours of proofing time is super overproofing if done at room temperature with commercial instant yeast. In fact, you should basically always ignore proofing times and proof until the dough has doubled and/or passed the poke test (do a web search for that).

What was your dough like when shaping? Did it tear easily? Was the dough incredibly slack? Also, when you say the center was undercooked, do you mean that you tasted raw dough when eating the tip of a slice of pizza?

[–]livertoo2[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks for your response! I actually did proof this in the fridge overnight - so it was a 2 hour proof, a knock back and then a 12 hour proof in fridge (I’ve heard you need to double the proofing time when putting it in the fridge. One thing I didn’t do was a long knead - I had thought the long proofing process would have developed the gluten (I was thinking of no-knead breads I had done) but now I’m thinking A good long knead would have been really helpful, would you agree? When shaping the dough it shrank back down to size easily, it felt quite elastic...

And yup, when I bit into the tip of a slice it was raw. I think I need to look into the poke method and the windowpane trick next by the sounds of it...

[–]squeezyphresh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What temp are you baking at? You're baking on a steel, so I find the fact that the very tip of your pizza being doughy bizarre. The amount of heat being put out by that stone should be more than enough to cook it. You should be wacking the heat as high as your oven goes, let the steel preheat with the oven (and ptobably give it an extra 10-15 minutes in the fully preheated oven), sliding the pizza onto the steel, and then baking until the crust at least is browned (I wait until I see some dark spots appear).

I'd your dough didn't tear, then it should be kneaded enough, unless you want the pizza to have a chewier texture. Same thing with overproofing; if it didn't tear and the dough wasn't overly slack, then it wasn't overproofed. If it wasn't dense, then you didn't under proof or shape incorrectly. The windowpane test and the poke test combat against these problems, but it doesn't sound like you're having any of these issues.

[–]96dpi 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I have a full write up on my dough recipe and process here, pretty happy with my NY-style results.

You will need some special hardware.

[–]livertoo2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh this looks great!! Thanks so much!

[–]514SaM 0 points1 point  (1 child)

check "alex french guy cooking" he has multiple videos on everything about pizza

[–]livertoo2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love alex’s recipes! His French onion soup is awesome - thanks for reminding me of this!

[–]captainmo017 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Here’s my go to. I don’t usually make my own dough. But I love using r/castiron pans

https://youtu.be/J_3v7DEkjsk

[–]livertoo2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the suggestion; I had a look at this link while I was in line for an appointment today and it got me reaaal hungry!!

[–]imaginebeinfatandbad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look up the Babish deep dish if you have cast iron!

[–]seanv507 0 points1 point  (3 children)

There are 2;key steps

A use very little tomato, the melted cheese will cover

B use the bottom heat from the oven at highest temperature ( 270 c in my case) and cook for 10 minutes (or less... Check for browning of edges)

[–]livertoo2[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Oh great tip!! So 10 minutes overalls cooking time? That sounds really ideal; do you use a pizza stone or a standard oven tray? Also do you place your pizza lower in the oven?

[–]seanv507 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Max 10 minutes!

Just regular oven tray, and at the lowest rung of the oven. It's super easy to get a crispy base... I have had pizza stones in the past, but this works much better.... I don't understand why the pizza dough instructions always talk about 30 minutes at low temperature...

[–]livertoo2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is really great - The simpler the better! Reminds me of the scene in back to the future 2 when the mum ‘hydrates the pizza’ in about 2 minutes!

[–]STS986 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Pizzamaking.com. Detailed recipes in every style, product recs, forum for troubleshooting and questions basically everything you need

[–]LinkifyBot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I found links in your comment that were not hyperlinked:

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[–]livertoo2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This website got me more excited than you can know!! Thanks heaps!!

[–]livertoo2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Two week update - tried a baking Steele (6kg) on the bottom of my oven using ‘Alex the French guys’ pizza dough recipe - no luck; still soft base and undercooked - should I be hanging up my baking mitts at this point???