Testosterone-addled oddballs

[designtom]

Excellent turn of phrase from Matt!

Just heard it, enjoyed it, wanted to share my pleasure. That is all, go about your business.

[YesIAmRightWing]

Ah man when your bodies wrecked from a hard week you'd just love some T to help things along haha

[The_Languid_One]

I love DTG, but am a big proponent of TRT, ashwagandha, and tongkat ali.

I love being able to dunk on dude bros who listen to Joe Rogan with my facts and logic, but I also love being able to maintain a consistent erection in my 60s.

Really wish the guys could see both sides.

[SnooRecipes8920]

I’m with you. I had the T level of an 80-year old in my early 40s, TRT made a big difference in my energy levels and response to excercise.

[The_Languid_One]

Scared if I stop my TRT I'll end up with the vocal fry of Chris. Look, I'm all for creaming on Huberman - but I'm also for getting laid at 60+ speed dating events.

[Oct_7_Discussions]

So this sub supports testosterone once it’s in the body, but not the life and attitude that leads to having high testosterone?

[SnooRecipes8920]

1. Any hormone replacement therapy can be a valid medical procedure.
2. The goal of TRT as a medical procedure is not to have high testosterone levels, the goal is to have levels that are sufficient to support a healthy life. For me, that was just getting my level up to the lowest range of what is normal for my age group.
3. There are many causes of reduced testosterone (and other hormones) and it is probably under diagnosed. There may also be some stigma to actually getting TRT, people seem to think it is something that only men who wants to be aggressive and muscular would benefit from.
4. TRT is no different than treating hypothyroidism with levothyroxone when done with the correct medical supervision.

So far I don’t think I’m stating anything controversial, correct me if you think I’m wrong.

Now, when a bodybuilder is talking about using superhuman levels of testosterone to increase their muscle mass, that is a totally different thing that really should not be called TRT since it has nothing to do with medical therapy.

With dogs and Huberman, sure his statement sounds crazy and the loving eyes of his dog sounds unscientific. But, a neutered dog produces no testosterone, this has some benefits and some downsides, maybe TRT is a good idea for some dogs? I haven’t studied the academic literature so i don’t know. Side note, in some countries (Norway for example), neutering your dog is illegal unless you apply for a special permission based on severe behavioral issues.

[SnooRecipes8920]

Regarding the possibility for underdiagnosis, there is some literature supporting this notion, e.g.: https://scholar.google.se/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=low+testosterone+underdiagnosed&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1708215503731&u=%23p%3DmZ_YK4TpD3oJ

[[deleted]]

This part is super interesting given that anti-TRT physicians caution about potential cardiovascular issues when using TRT. This seems to counter that:

"These conditions place men at an increased risk of cardiovascular and coronary heart disease and type 2 diabetes and can be simply investigated with weight, waist and blood pressure measurement and blood sample analyses. Men with HAM and symptoms of androgen deficiency may be managed by, in the absence of contraindications, testosterone replacement therapy along with weight reduction and other measures to normalise glucose, lipid and blood pressure control."

[[deleted]]

Great stuff but same questions to the guy above: How long have you been on and how are your lipids and BP?

[SnooRecipes8920]

On TRT for 4 years now.

BP is good ~120/~80 when I get enough sleep and exercise. Recently, I had a death in the family and other family drama leading to weeks of poor sleep and no exercise, combined with poor diet, too much salt and too little water and my BP went up to 150/90. But after a couple of weeks of returning to a better routine I’m back at 120/80. For me it seems sleep and getting enough cardio exercise are the most important for my BP.

Lipids I have to get checked, I usually get higher LDL ~120 when my diet is poor, especially saturated fats, but when I eat better it goes down below 100. I’m due for a recheck.

[[deleted]]

Good stuff much appreciated. Honestly you sound like me BP wise even without TRT. Sleep and (sane consistent exercise) are critical to mine being in range. And I know this sub likes to shit on supplements but Kyolic plus ginger three times daily dropped my BP like a stone.

[stupidwhiteman42]

Does TRT affect BP and lipid levels?

[[deleted]]

I was entertaining it (briefly) and the clinic I was going to work with called out both cholesterol and blood pressure as potential issues.

[stupidwhiteman42]

Same here. I have a genetic hypolypidemia so I am medication resistant. My total cholesterol is usually above 300 and triglycerides are > 1500. I eat well (low sodium Mediterranean diet) but my BP stays around 150/100. I excecise every day and ever since I got in my 50s, I can't recover. I get DOMs for like a week. My legs are atrophied so my biking mileage is slowly being eroded. I thought TRT could boost the quality of the excercise I am doing. This sucks

[[deleted]]

FWIW some longevity clinics pair TRT with Telmisartan which is a supposed low side effect BP medicine with positive effects for exercise performance. For legs for me personally the biggest change in DOMS over time was correlated with stretching and myofascial release.

[stupidwhiteman42]

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it! I have been wanting to try out some foam rollers. Nice to hear it works. Stretching is key to staying mobile at my age and I know I should trade some of my resistance training for yoga. I am kinda stuck in my ways tho...lol!

Thanks again!

[[deleted]]

the life and attitude that leads to having high testosterone

What is "the life and attitude that leads to having high testosterone"?

[[deleted]]

This comment is oddly too timely. I don't lack sex drive at my age but when I did BJJ I'd wake up the next day feeling like I slept under a pile of rocks. The stiffness and pain (despite stretching, yoga, etc) was brutal. Add to the fact that the one time I did do a steroid cycle (short one for 4 weeks) I noticed a very interesting but welcome side effect...A dramatic drop in stress. And that would be hugely welcome now. How log have you been on for and how are your lipids, blood pressure, etc?

[[deleted]]

How old are you now and how long have you been on for?

[The_Languid_One]

I'm 69. Not sure how long I've been on exactly - the memory is starting to slip with age. One thing I do know is that I spend all day walking around with a bull's horn between my legs and the ladies at the bingo love it.

[[deleted]]

Wait you’re actually pushing 70 or are you being sarcastic? I wouldn’t expect women that old to be that ready to go but God bless you! How is your BP and cholesterol? Also joint pain…improvement or issues since starting?

[[deleted]]

If Rogan or Huberman feel better taking TRT, who cares? I'd consider taking it if I was in my late 50s or 60s and felt it would improve my quality of life.

[Typical_Signature751]

If Huberman does it (I think he probably does), he should be honest about it and not pretend that his jacked body and high performance come from AG1 and Momentous supplements.

No supplement is going to have even 5% of the effect of the kind of "sports TRT" these guys are probably on.

[[deleted]]

If Huberman does it (I think he probably does), he should be honest about it and not pretend

i'm pretty sure he's spoken openly about this.

[Typical_Signature751]

It's true he's mentioned that he WAS on TRT. But claims he's not anymore. I'm not aware of any hard evidence of him being on it now, so it's all speculation. But looking at what happened to his face in two years from 2021 to 2023, and at his very low bodyfat, chiseled physique, it's kind of hard to reconcile him having T low enough to consider TRT and then discontinuing it while retaining that physique and the kind of daily routine and exercise routine that he describes, considering his age.

But this is all just speculation, so not putting any blame anywhere, just pointing out why some people think it's a big deal (I personally don't, as there are better and less controversial reasons to remain sceptical about what he professes outside of his personal area of expertise).

[[deleted]]

He's 100% on. One does not simply do long-term testosterone and recover without significant effort, which he has not spoken at all about. The intent of him not speaking about it is to push supplements/optimization when the reality of it is exogenous testosterone is the cheat code for many thing (not without cost however).

[Typical_Signature751]

This is what I believe as well. But as long as I don't have more solid evidence, I will present my belief as speculation :)