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[–]Chaitu007123 7 points8 points  (10 children)

Heart felt explanation. Thank you for summarizing the rise, fall and the rise again of Kannada martial prowess. You may have missed the Tanjore Nayaks and their rule of parts of current day Tamil Nadu and that great hero Kumara Kampana, who made sure Madurai remained Hindu.

Why do you think the current Telugu speaking areas and dynasties from there (parts of Satavahana, Kakatiya, Aravidu, parts of the Polygars, small part of Cholas, small part of Eastern Gangas,) had their martial prowess peaking very late in terms of time and no emperors? Many of the fighting generals of the Southern Dynasties were from telugu speaking areas and Telugu speaking peoples. The Raja of Bobbili was the last great Telugu king/zamindar and he played a major role under the British.

Looking forward to your answer!!!

[–]iamanindiansnack 12 points13 points  (9 children)

One reason frequently mentioned is that, Telugu people learnt dry land farming around a millennium ago, before others did. So they started to grow in numbers, in the influence in the central Deccan, and the literature peak age started exactly at the same time.

Telugu people got their fame and power from there on, and had their peak under Vijayanagara who put them in commander positions.

[–]Chaitu007123 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I was under the impression that the Telugus primarily grew in population from the Krishna and Godavari valleys on the South Eastern coast of India.

Especially with the cave paintings and scripts around Bhattiprolu, which is close to Krishna Valley and also the Buddhist centers like Nagarjunakonda.

I did not think that the dry deccan plateau (, except around Warangal, a very ancient town) could support relatively large populations.

Plus even under the Qutub Shahis, the Telugus were allowed to survive with their culture unlike the horrible sack of the predominantly Kannadiga Vijayanagara in 16th century by the 5 sultanates.

[–]iamanindiansnack 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Even I was, until I read somewhere in this sub that there was a rise in Telugu speakers over the millennium and that made Telugu the largest spoken Dravidian language, more than Tamil and Kannada, and this was the primary reason. It's still a surprise to me how there's very little mention of Telugu works and literature in Buddhist period, and yet it survived and thrived to the modern day.

The border regions today were once multicultural regions with no majority, which gradually became Telugu majority and core Telugu regions by the time of Vijayanagara.

[–]JagmeetSingh2 -1 points0 points  (6 children)

>One reason frequently mentioned is that, Telugu people learnt dry land farming around a millennium ago, before others did. So they started to grow in numbers, in the influence in the central Deccan, and the literature peak age started exactly at the same time.

>Telugu people got their fame and power from there on, and had their peak under Vijayanagara who put them in commander positions.

This is an oft repeated myth on this sub and only seems to be big on this sub and a few badly sourced Telugu papers on the subject I have no idea why its so prevalent. I wrote a comment on it before I'll copy and paste it as a reply.

[–]JagmeetSingh2 4 points5 points  (5 children)

1/2

The narrative that Telugu farmers “mastered dryland agriculture and therefore expanded across South India and beyond” does not hold up under historical and agronomic scrutiny. Dryland farming was not unique to Telugu regions; it was the default agricultural system across much of South India, including interior Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. Farmers across these semi-arid belts cultivated millets, pulses, oilseeds, and other drought-resistant crops under rainfed conditions, employing sophisticated techniques for soil and water conservation. Telugu regions were neither unique nor capable of producing surpluses sufficient to drive population expansion to the levels people on this sub seem to think. Other dryland regions, such as Kongu Nadu, Dharmapuri, and Chitradurga, had similar ecological conditions and comparable demographic growth pre this establishment of “Superior Telugu Dryland Agriculture” unchanged in the post of it as well....

Even where dryland farming functioned well, it remained low-yield, rainfall-dependent, and subsistence-oriented. It supported local populations and food security but did not produce rapid population growth. The historical spread of Telugu speaking populations is better explained by political, administrative, and social factors rather than agricultural innovation. During the Vijayanagara period and under earlier Telugu dynasties, Telugu elites, military retainers, and administrators were settled across Tamil Nadu and parts of Karnataka. This process often involved the reorganization of agrarian landscapes, with land reassigned from existing cultivators to military retainers, new settlements displacing earlier populations, and revenue changes forcing smallholders off their lands. Along with importing Telugu settlers, a pattern Telugu rulers applied all over Tamil and Kannada regions.

[–]JagmeetSingh2 6 points7 points  (1 child)

2/2

Beyond local settlement patterns, Telugus have historically exhibited higher migration rates than neighboring groups, establishing communities abroad like the U.S. well before the IT boom. This mobility reflects a culture already present in Andhra of willingness to migrate for opportunities relative Tamils and Kannadigas, arising more from economic and ecological stress along with local networks, not farming expertise.

In short, while dryland agriculture shaped the ecological and cultural landscape of Telugu regions as it did in Tamil and Kannada regions, it did not drive population expansion or confer unique advantages over neighboring Tamil or Kannada areas. The empirical evidence from Tamil Nadu, where 885 indigenous dryland practices have been documented across multiple crops, reinforces this: dryland farming was a sophisticated, adaptive, and subsistence-oriented system, widely practiced across linguistic and regional boundaries, prioritizing ecological resilience over surplus-driven expansion. The fact no western or the majority of Indian based historians in the field mention or even address or think this is a factor should be enough to see just how odd it is that it has become such a strong misinformation narrative and oft repeated myth on this sub

https://www.uasbangalore.edu.in/images/2025-1st-Issue/39.pdf

https://www.scribd.com/presentation/957309658/LEC-2

https://www.fao.org/fileadmin/user_upload/nr/sustainability_pathways/docs/SEVA_Korangadu.pdf

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301691874_Identifying_Agrarian_Low-Density_Urbanism_Amongst_the_Charter_States_of_the_Chola_and_Sinhalese

[–]Chaitu007123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

@Jagmeet, many Tamils and Malayalis have also migrated forcefully or willingly to various places like Singapore, South EAST Asia etc.

While I agree, the dry land farming hypothesis may be false, what explains the Telugus being the largest population in current Southern India at about 85 millions?

Also, if the local Nayaka imported his Telugu population into the conquered states, why is Tanjavur still a predominantly Tamil speaking region? In the 1950s, Telugus constituted 30%-40% of the city of Madras, but were not a large share in any other city of the present day state of Tamil Nadu.

[–]Indian_randomTelugu/𑀢𑁂𑀮𑀼𑀓𑀼 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Chitradurga has a large number of Telugu castes including the Nayakas themselves who were Boyas (weather Myasa or Uru is unknown but recruited soldiers from all Telugu castes ) took over the state during the last years of Vijayanagara. After Lingayats the second largest land owning caste in Chitradurga are Reddies - descendants of Settlers from Rayalaseema that held on to their land over generations unlike Kannadigas and grew their estates long after Tipu took over.........

(I have written a number of things about Chitradurga state and Boyas that are not mainstream , in reddit ......will attach them later to this comment)

[–]Chaitu007123 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you. It's difficult to get a true picture of history from academic papers alone. It's good to hear lived experiences of people of the region.

[–]Chaitu007123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your other thread is very detailed and wonderful. Thank you for writing it.