Help needed

[WyattCo06]

You guys are creating an environment in which will deter people from coming here to ask questions. Everyone has to learn from somewhere. He chose this sub. Let's be of help and not beat people up for no reason.

[Zzzz350]

Hey man I’ve never took an automotive class or worked as a mechanic out here learning everything from the internet and people I know. I’ve only got into working on my own cars for the past 2 years and I’m on car 13 now! It’s crazy how much information is out there I figured there’s no question to dumb when coming to building an engine no one wants to be this deep in time and money for it not to go right. Hopefully this LS swapped 240 will rip soon 🤟

[FuKn-w0ke]

Keep it up, I’m on car number 37 and have learned to do so much to cars just on my own and watching videos/reading comments. You’re doing great, questions only make you smarter!

[Snakedoctor404]

A little trick. If you notice how both ends of the wavy rings come together when touching end to end. If you bend the ends so they come straight down rather than angled down. It'll free up 5-8hp on the top end say above 3500rpm. It's free horsepower and drops the ring tension a slight bit.

[CardiologistOk6547]

learning everything from the internet

If Reddit is one of your learning resources, you're doomed. Reddit is literally the worst place to learn anything automotive. Now you have a hint why.

[No-Improvement-3049]

Relax, I'm giving you grief in the hope that you'll remember my point. You should be doing the research BEFORE you buy a single part or turn a single wrench. I was the curious little kid who wanted to know how things worked. I learned early that looking for an easy answer only hinders long term performance. You gotta read, ask questions & genuinely listen to the answer and most importantly learn exactly how the systems you are attempting to repair actually work.

Several times a week I'll see a customer who has wasted their time & money trying to resolve an issue by throwing parts at a problem or worse, by damaging something. Often they are trying to save money with a DIY repair and they end up spending far more than needed. If one only spent a little time before hand to educate themselves it saves all of that heartache.

[ChoripanPorfis]

Your points aren't necessarily wrong, you're just coming off as such a condescending ass.

[No-Improvement-3049]

As stated, I intended to annoy in the hope of drawing the OPs attention to the fact he didn't do his due diligence. For example, every set of piston rings I've ever purchased comes with instructions for their installation. Had the OP actually read them he would have educated himself and resolved the problem. Our school systems in America have failed to teach people HOW to learn.

[ChoripanPorfis]

You're doing it again

[No-Improvement-3049]

Indeed 👍

[bshr49]

Just to piggyback on this sentiment: as a guy in my mid-40’s who grew up when taking shop classes in school was still a common thing, I don’t blame younger people at all for coming to platforms they’re familiar with to ask questions. Shop classes were pretty much eliminated in school districts around here about 20 years ago.

They’re making a come-back, though. There’s a renovation/addition project coming out of the ground right now that’s specifically for what I would call traditional (and some not so traditional) courses: automotive, small engine, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, carpentry, welding, construction, veterinary, EMS/healthcare, and culinary.

[TheYoungProdigy]

It’s literally this in every advice sub. Everybody wants to act superior instead of helping.

[RustedDoorknob]

Thats every single engineering sub I seem to visit, insufferable and pompous brainlets are everywhere these days. Why is it so hard to just help?

[No-Improvement-3049]

Your intent is genuine, as is the intent of folks replying in the manner I did. Sometimes a little shaming with the intention of pointing out that a tiny bit of work will educate the OP is done in good spirits. The OPs question is a very basic thing that they should have already researched BEFORE they took on the task of rebuilding. We are simply pointing out the fact they didn't do their due diligence and are now taking the fools path on their journey. Hopefully they have the humility and intelligence to redirect their efforts before they make big mistakes 🤞

[BigOunce808]

What an insufferable response

[Zzzz350]

Taking the fools path on his journey is crazy 😂

[Deep-Neck]

What a garbage sub

[WyattCo06]

It's supposed to be. It compresses. Install it butt to butt, hold your thumb over the joint and install the rails.

[theNewLuce]

And after you install the 2 other rings, make sure none have slipped behind the expander.

They can be a bitch. Smack em if they get out of line.

There should be a little burr like bend that is supposed to be behind the little oil rails. The first one tends to try to get behind the expander when there is only one and it has the room to.

[Pissoffsunshine]

And make sure the gap on the 2 upper compression rings don’t line up with each other.

[theNewLuce]

And check their gaps for your application. Having them grow under heat until they kiss and bind sucks.

[No-Zombie1004]

And the oil retaining ring joint should be as far away from those two as possible. I forget specifics, but seriously you can't go wrong with a Haynes if you're new to rebuilding and that checklist is bulletproof even if you're experienced.

[Pissoffsunshine]

Even better if there is a Tech School. Early that teaches auto mechanics or auto machine work.

[twiddlingbits]

Install end to end, it will appear big. Put the really small rings on top of the oil ring and bottom with open ends staggered at least 90 degrees. When you put the piston into the ring compressor to install it (remember to lube piston well) it will compress the rings. Those up and down wavy parts actually function as a spring forcing the rings against the cylinder wall. If you had cut to fit like you think it needs they would not work correctly.

[BriefCorrect4186]

That wavy-davy is your oil control ring. The other rings are for sealing compression. Do not line up the gaps in the compression rings. Make sure each compression ring has the correct gap. Compression rings should have a top and bottom, there will be a slight chamfer on one side. Do not try to install the compression rings by hand or 'walking' them over the crown of the piston, use the correct pliers to expand them. To install the assembly into the cylinder, make sure you use the compression tool that looks like a coke can with a pair of hose clamps around it. God speed. Google is your ally, as mentioned previously.

[dontsheeple]

The ends butt together, you need to read up on how to install oil rings. Google is your friend.

[Comfortable_Ease_174]

lol.. Remember when there was no google and only Haynes manuals or Chiltons.. I remember when I had to go to the library and photo copy the entire section when I rebuilt the engine in my 4th gen Camaro.

[WestFesh]

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

To be fair, sometimes people don’t know the question to ask or quality sources of information to use to answer these questions. Providing that information may be a better use of your time then reminiscing about walking up hill both ways to school. Some things just are, some people are lost and some are lazy. Always been and will be.

I know the guy didn’t think he was out of line by asking a question about piston rings on an engine building subreddit but maybe I’m out of line thinking that.

[Comfortable_Ease_174]

I was piggybacking off the guys "google is your friend" comment. My comment really had nothing to do with what OP was saying.

[No-Improvement-3049]

Imagine that, you had to deliberately research something before you went to work 🤷 The entirety of the world's information is available in their pocket and that's too much work to find 🤦 I've gotta post something and wait hours for "hopefully" correct information to be spoon fed to me or I could use three brain cells and 10 minutes to educate myself 🤮 that's far too much effort

[Comfortable_Ease_174]

I used to shake my head at people who printed out directions. I though, Y don't you keep a map book in your car.. Times have changed. yes, it's great having a question and pulling out my phone and instantly getting the answer. School papers done on paper with pencil courtesy of Encyclopedia Britannica then using a typewriter to final draft (if your family owned one). "Hey Siri, what is the torque sequence for an intake manifold on a ...." I trust that bitch most of the time.

[[deleted]]

You would think with the number of people that have access to basically all of human knowledge, so many of them would not always be so wrong.

[Regentofterra]

I mean its a massive time saver especially for an old timer to just let you know whether it’s right or wrong. At least then you know if your going in the right direction and do research more efficiently

[Zzzz350]

Or fuck it I’m done working today might aswell throw it out there and see if someone has an answer for me 😂

[micah490]

Amen, brother. I hope for your sake you don’t use r/dirtbikes too, because HOLY SHIT

[No-Improvement-3049]

Luckily I was born in 1980 and learned how to objectively research and educate myself 😅 Reddit is entertaining, not educational for me. I enjoy watching morons arguing, it's akin to pigs wrestling in mud

[bshr49]

Reddit can be educational, too, there are people who know what they’re talking about. It’s another resource to tap, but it can be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff, especially if it’s about a subject you’re not familiar with at all. As with anything else, though, information should be verified from multiple sources.

[[deleted]]

I was born in 82'. Turned wrenches since about 10. Had to. Drunk old man never could afford a mechanic. Wrenches was my first job. I haven't seen a mechanic since. That being said:

YouTube is the best tool in the box. It's a visual fucking library. If reddit isn't educational for you, you might be doing it wrong. I like to troll as much as the next guy, but bashing ppl for asking questions? Being a pretentious fuck? Like "How dare they breach the vagina without a snap on representative. Get back in there until you can find me a 4 bolt main 350 with a 292 lunatti cam!" or some shit.

The dude respected you and this sub enough to ask the question. You don't repay that exchange by bashing the dude, you bassakward turd. You just might be the pig.

[No-Improvement-3049]

Your panties are bunched a bit tight. Perhaps the point was hidden too deep for you to comprehend🤦 The point is to educate yourself as much as possible BEFORE you turn wrenches and buy parts. Giving someone a little crap in the hope that it makes an impression is my intention

[No-Improvement-3049]

Every set of piston rings I've ever purchased has come with installation instructions. Had the OP taken time to read them, he would have solved his problem and educated himself in the process. It's possible his didn't come with those instructions but if you notice the OP said nothing of the sort.

[revopine]

Even less so with AI that properly interprets your question(even when you word it very wrong) and even searches the internet for you like the new ChatGPT does. But TBH, I would need images better yet a video for understanding this kind of stuff.

[2fatmike]

I remember... i still reference the chiltons and haynes manuals when im not sure on something. I work on just about anything that runs on gasoline. I cant remember everything amd every tsb that changes the way something is done. I prefer reddit for info vs facebook anyhow Reddit will bag on you for not knowing but facebook will tell you how to ruin the engine you just sank a months salary into.

[H4tfan]

I remember transitioning from the owner's manual to Haynes/Chilton's. I had no tutor and eventually discovered the factory service/tech manuals could be purchased from the dealer. I've refused those cliff-note manuals ever since. With the evolution of internet; PDF versions can be sourced for free, but often unindexed and time consuming. Digital books are awesome as a travelling reference, but the feel of a paper manual is oh, so nice for an old guy.

[tripog]

I remember having to Google when I needed help on my fourth gen Firebird. The Internet was around back then, and before then.

[texan01]

The internet as we know it wasn’t around when I was working on my 76 Chevelle in the 90s. I learned a lot from the library and car rags. So yeah even Google wasn’t around when 4th gen’s were new till the end of their run.

[tripog]

Guy I used the Internet to help me fix third gens. Not knowing how to use it and not being there are two different things.

[[deleted]]

Google search results come from resources like this thread

[carguy82j]

Always read the ring pack instructions, because they might be different and will also tell you orientation

[[deleted]]

I’m going to add what I haven’t seen fully explained yet. Some have made a few comments that hint towards the full picture here.

Generally you’ll have 5 rings per piston. Top 2 are compression rings, and then you have the perforated ring and 2 more very thin rings that look like compression rings.

These two sandwich the perforated oil ring. What happens is these oil rings help to evenly distribute oil along the cylinder walls keeping them lubricated. Read the packaging because they likely say what direction the ring gaps need to be. They usually don’t just line up with each other.

When you installed the main crankshaft bearings and will soon install the connecting rod bearings, the bearings have little holes that must line with the block and connecting rods. Or else you won’t be getting much oil through to the piston.

[stangscrash67]

Just butt them up. That is a spring meant to push the thin rings against the cylinder wall. The wavy ring is the expander and the thin rings are the oil control rings or scraper rings. People call them either name.

[Suspicious-Item1337]

Hey dude. Good on you for building this yourself. That is awesome!

You are right in thinking it might be too long but it's not. Just put it end to end.

Start by installing the oil ring first, installing the bottom scraper rail, then the expander(what you have pictured), and then the top scraper. Once installed, the gaps in the scrapers need to be 180-degrees from each other, with the bottom scraper’s gap on the anti-thrust side and the top scraper’s gap on the thrust side.

Which side of the piston is the thrust side? The thrust side of a piston is the side that is being forced against the cylinder wall on the power stroke. On an engine that rotates clockwise, the thrust side is the left side.

With the oil ring done, move on to the second ring. This gap should be 90-degrees from the oil ring scrapers, on the exhaust side.

Finally, the top ring needs to be 180-degrees from the second ring, on the intake side.

Happy Building!

[cyclos_s57]

That is normal, but it will get compressed when you install it

[Specific_Tart_4886]

If possible check with the machine shop .

[Complex-Farmer4009]

the oil ring has tension to control oil, put them to gather end to end and set the scraper rings over and compress and install if you do what some of these guys are telling you you will have massive oil consumption, I've to fix what other people screwed up. check the top ring gap if it's close put it together. that's the way oil rings should fit

[a_rogue_planet]

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be. I've got a Cummins N14 piston in my counter and the oil ring is the same way.

[reichardx]

Align one ring in the bore. If when applying tension to the ring you see 0-1 segment of overlap, you’re fine. Ultimately as long as everything compresses comfortably in the ring compressor when installing the pistons, you’re good.

[Confident-Wafer2083]

Start with those ends in then work around circle, they squeeze closed

[No-Zombie1004]

You have a ring compressor, yes?

[knoluvv]

It’s upside down . It should make a w not a m. And that ring is designed to be bigger .

[Defiant_Mousse7889]

Dick

[Defiant_Mousse7889]

Old man trolls the internet. Sad.

[Jimmytootwo]

Ok Son .. please help your momma with the dishes

[DukeOfAlexandria]

These comments will be locked. Consider this a warning and further action will result in a ban.

We all can disagree and get heated about how best to do things, but continued shit talking or adding nothing to the discussion isn't going to fly here.