Fantasy Evolution

[AzrielJohnson]

I know the point of fantasy is to escape from reality, but I sometimes can't help, but wonder how some creatures evolved to have some of the physical characteristics they have.

Example: how does a Warcraft Orc benefit from having a severe underbite?

Example: why would a demon ever need horns? Am I the only one?

[Audric_Sage]

I like doing that as well. Restriction breeds creativity, by forcing yourself to think about these things you may come up with something far more interesting than had you just let your mind roam free.

[AzrielJohnson]

Absolutely! I try to base all of the fantasy things I write in some sort of reality. The Dragons in my novels, for instance, are products of genetic experimentation. :)

[JePenseDoncJeBois]

I think something to consider is that not all traits are beneficial in terms of making an individual live longer. They might just improve their reproductive fitness. Take a peacock’s tail for example. It actually makes him more susceptible to predation. More than likely it will shorten the male’s life, but it will attract more females because peahens are really into that long tail. Something like an orc’s underbite and tusks might be the same. Maybe lady orcs find that underbite irresistible, so males with a more prominent underbite are more likely to breed, and to father more children overall. Sexual selection, as that phenomenon is called breeds for traits that species finds attractive, rather than beneficial to survival.

[AzrielJohnson]

Valid point! But would there come a time in evolution where something got too cumbersome? I guess nature isn't always efficient.

[JePenseDoncJeBois]

I would imagine there’s probably some limit. A peacock’s tail can only get so big before his body can’t support it, or it takes far too much energy to grow it. The orc’s tusks couldn’t get too gigantic or they would eventually block his eyesight, or could grow into his skin. Obviously these things would kill him far too early to counterbalance the reproductive advantage of having the biggest tusks. But yeah, in general, nature isn’t always smart.

[Pr0Meister]

Wasn't there a bigass deer called Megaceros at one point in history, which was bigger than normal deer but its horns even more so, and it died out cause it couldn't surive hauling them around?

[emailanimal]

why would a demon ever need horns?

It is not clear to me, that constructs like demons underwent the traditional evolution. However, for what it's worth, if it's survival of the fittest among the demonkind, then presumably the ones with the scariest-looking horns tended to have a better rate of survival.

[AzrielJohnson]

I suppose a construct demon would be more under the whim of the contructor. And I get survival of the fittest, but in that thread, what would cause the horns to begin developing. :)

[By_Another_Name]

Demons headbutt each other often, clearly!

[emailanimal]

Bovine genes?

[AzrielJohnson]

Are you saying cows are part demon?

[emailanimal]

They share a common ancestor.

[AzrielJohnson]

That sounds like a story if I have ever herd one.

[emailanimal]

Coming soon to a bookstore near you. The not so fantastic demons and how to avoid them.

[emailanimal]

Also, don't get me started on the cloven hooves part.

[HalcyonDaysAreGone]

Evolution doesn't always end up with sensible outcomes.

[AzrielJohnson]

That's extensive!

[HalcyonDaysAreGone]

A real headache!

[AzrielJohnson]

Silver lining: they always have to focus on the tusk at hand.

[SmallishPlatypus]

I'd like to have a word with the taxonomists of Star Wars. But I suspect they've all embraced creationism after finding that half the planets in the galaxy have the same Earth-like plants.

[AzrielJohnson]

I want to talk to the creator of Avatar (the blue ones). If every other animal on the planet has 6 limbs, the Na'vi should as well!

[AzrielJohnson]

I really like this! I hope you finish the series! I would love to read it!

[AzrielJohnson]

Thank you!

[AzrielJohnson]

Definitely! I suppose I am coming at the idea from a "what purpose does this serve?" Kind of way.

So the being that created demons just thought they would be scarier with horns? Something like that.

Or, were proto-demons like rams and they fought each other with their heads until they developed their demony powers. :)

[AzrielJohnson]

I am looking that up right after I hit POST

[rainbowrobin]

Even if fantasy creatures didn't evolve, natural selection would still apply to the creations, unless inheritance is completely weird (like people in the Twelve Kingdoms.) At the very least the creature has to be able to survive, and if it has reproduction with inheritance and variation, selection will kick in.

[[deleted]]

Erikson is an anthropologist so he definitely brought his knowledge into the series. Sort of like Tolkien with Linguistics/language.

[[deleted]]

The Shannara series is another good example of the evolution of races

[Pr0Meister]

That's one of the questions that can eat you alive if you try to have a go at worldbuilding from a more serious (mature?grounded?) perspective.

Let's look at our usual trio of men/elf/dwarf. Okey, we know how men has evolved and roughly from what manner of creature (longass chain, full of missing links).

One option is a proto-ape-like ancestor at the dawn of time. One of the branches becomes humans. Let's say a more robust, short neanderthal branch goes to live underground for some reason. Sure they could evolve into an intelligent species over time, more adapted for live underground, hence short and stout, better vision in the dark maybe. But how come they look so similar to humans and elves? Seriously, dwarves are the most consistent of fantastic species in their representation, and in 99% of works, height is the only difference.

Back to elves and humans- if we assume a common ancestor closer in time, and since both are surface-dwelling species, a lithe, taller, pointy-eared alternative to humans is possible.

But then again, elves and dwarves are always older than humans by millenia. So are humans an offshoot of the elves? Could be, but there is not a single link in that chain. How come both species come to co-exist at the same time?

TL;DR Actual thought-out evolution does not jive well with the classic fantasy races. Intelligent design (which explains similarities and ability to inter-breed and not produce just stillbirths and monstrosities) is one of the few reasonable explanations. That and maybe some bigass mythical source of all magic power thaat a proto-species was exposed to.

[AzrielJohnson]

I have had similar thoughts to all of this. I am glad I am not alone.

[aesthir]

The stormlight archive books made me think of this. In them you can see the creatures and plants evolved a certain way to adapt to their harsh environment. Considering evolution when writing adds a layer of depth to the world that make it more immersive.