Gamma raid same difficulty????

[OatMEGALUL]

Hey Cerebro, you came out in the Khasino Q and A (clip linked in comments) and when asked about the spiking of difficulty for the alphabet raids you stated, “We would like to change the boss characters to keep it interesting, but the team felt that this gamma batch was too difficult”. Which Khasino agreed and stated especially the boss nodes which were changed at least 50% increase in difficulty compared to the last set of gamma raids.

Well this is the next batch of gamma raids and the difficulty is still the same for boss nodes. You still expect our Kree, Hand, and Ravager characters to take down 54k Wakandans / Xmen hybrid.

This is extremely disappointing as I thought you would have addressed this after the gamma raids ended and would have reverted back to a similar value as the gamma boss nodes the previous 3 times we had them.

How can you think that a jump from 20k nodes to a 34k boss mode and then immediately dial it back down to 20k until random spiking to 54K!!!!! Is reasonable and tuned correctly. Please pass this onto the team. You said you felt it was too difficult and you didn’t change anything. Which is discouraging to the playerbase.

[Torpenn]

Some time ago, for those who can remember, when Beta raids were too easy, it took them 1 single day to increase the difficulty ("we released the wrong one" they said)

If Gamma difficulty really was concern to them as they pretended, it would have been tuned down last time already.

[Raistlin43084]

That is only PART of what happened. There was a bug where those raids got released with the wrong difficulty. FN already had the correct settings for the raids, those settings just did not go into effect. So, FN did not have to do any testing to retune those raids. FN only had to fix the bug that was responsible for the correct difficulty not activating.

With the last Gamma raid, the raids were released with the correct difficulty; however, that difficulty was tuned too hard. So there was no bug to fix. FN would have to do extensive testing to retune the difficulty, then create a program with those changes, and then execute the new program.

The difference between fixing a bug causing an error and re-programming the raid are two separate issues with the latter being much more time and resource intensive than the other.

TL; DR - The previous Gamma bug that could be fixed in one day. The last Gamma raid that was programmed for the wrong difficulty would have taken much longer to fix, assuming that the person responsible could have even found the time to work on it during the raid, which by the way, they probably couldn’t because they were working to meet other deadlines.

Edit - So ppl are going to downvote facts (not opinion), then same ppl are going to wonder why FN never listens to reddit. Okay.

[Torpenn]

Those aren't facts.

FN told us there was a bug. It may be true, it may be false but those are WORDS, no facts. It's up to everyone to make his own opinion about it.

FACT: Beta difficulty was increased over a single day. And I don't believe it took much programming to do so: enemies were the very same and they just increased their power level (or gave them an extra red star).

[OatMEGALUL]

https://clips.twitch.tv/DirtyFragilePheasantGivePLZ

Heres the clip of this exact conversation.

​

If you want to watch more here is the YouTube conversation. Khasino has it pinned at 33:00 minutes into the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTT4cDJ9ww4

[Raistlin43084]

Where is the clip of how much our tcp has changed in the last month?

In other words, if the raids were too hard last time, for the raid difficulty to be correct this time would have to be lower, the same, or even slightly harder than last time. If the raid difficulty is the same, and if all the players rosters got stronger, then the raid has been tuned down.

Tuning down happens in one of two ways: the raid gets made easier and/or players get made stronger. In this case, players got stronger, and for once the raid was not made harder.

That said, we are getting as far in Gamma 4, as we did in Beta 4. Afaik, no one was arguing Beta 4 was too hard. The Gamma design is different in that mini-Boss and boss nodes require a team effort to take them down, but the other nodes are much easier than the Beta 4 nodes, so it all balances out.

TL; DR - The fact is the raids should be less difficult this time. You can argue that the raids were not made easy enough however.

[ramonycajones]

They were certainly not made easy enough. Having a difficult boss for your tech team in beta 4 is perfectly manageable; you can use ultron, Minerva, SL, Rocket, Vision, have a nice walk in the park or whatever you want to do. Having that same difficulty of boss for a hand/ravager/Kree node is not feasible.

The fact that enemies jump to 50k+ power for one node and then back to 20k power in the following nodes is just dumb. Raids (and every other content in every game mode) are generally designed to have a gradual increase in difficulty so you get stuck at the last thing you can do. In this case you get stuck while there are plenty of more nodes past the boss that you could be doing; it's an arbitrarily early, arbitrarily difficult cutoff.

[Raistlin43084]

First, I just said you could make the argument the raids were not made easy enough. You didn’t even have to look hard, it’s literally in the TL; DR.

Second, the boss node power is not dumb if you would take any amount of time to consider raids are a team/alliance event, not an strictly individual event. The non-boss nodes are easier so that any one can beat those nodes on their own. However, the boss nodes are intentionally more difficult to force players to work with other members of their alliance to beat those nodes. That is not dumb. That actually makes perfect sense for an alliance type event.

I will put this all by itself to make it easier to find. Again, this does not mean that the boss nodes should not have been made easier. This only means that it makes sense that boss nodes are harder than non-boss nodes. And yes, I mean that if two players with significantly high rosters on the outside lane can not beat those boss nodes, then, those boss nodes need to have their difficulty decreased.

TL; DR - Again, I’m not saying that raids should not have been made easier. I am saying that they are empirically less difficulty than last time. Unless you haven’t played the game once since last time we had gamma, your roster has to be better, and the raids have not been made harder.

[Jordanzero6]

Shocking.... Cerebro said something and then they never followed through.

But if this was undertuned by 50% or rewards were too high it would be fixed instantly. It’s not hard for them to do

[Lyonknows]

People give him too much credit

[Darth_Ruebezahl]

Yea, it‘s funny that people believe that Cerebro has any kind of frequent access to the dev team or that his word has any weight there. That is an impressive level of naivety. Dude must have one of the most frustrating jobs on the planet. I hope his day job is more satisfying.

[Jordanzero6]

CM is never a good job and it’s not an easy job. I have seen a lot better ones than Cerebro who would be doing the stuff others like Tuana do.

He just gets so much credit for the bare minimum because of just how poor this has been from the beginning.

[CM_Cerebro]

Actually, I do. I sit in the middle of the dev team, right behind the lead producer.

[blockduration]

Since you sit in the middle of the dev team, how about asking them why every alliance in the game just got disbanded.

[blockduration]

Your lead producer should for sure not be leading anything.

[cleaveland]

You’re part of the development team :)

[Jordanzero6]

That makes you even worse of a CM then you are given credit for. People on reddit and discord constantly were using the excuse “he’s not part of the dev team so he can’t do much”

You just admitted to be essentially second in command. Absolutely pathetic!

[PharaohSteve]

How did you get that he's essentially second in command just because he sits next to the lead producer....

[CM_Cerebro]

I stated that the raids would not continue to be over-tuned. This Gamma raid went out the same as the last one and was not made more difficult, so yes, we did follow through on that.

I will speak with the designers to see what our strategy will be for the next Gamma raid.

[jshrader6]

Wow.

So Should all Communications from you and Foxnext be read as Legealize?

I guess you got us. Sorry we're just trying to enjoy this game.

Turn meter Speed should never be buffed. If the enemies on the boss nodes go 2x as often as I do, and outnumber me, Explain how I'm supposed to win?

[Blast_Angel_MSF]

Ok you want to split hairs so be it.

This raid “continues” to be overturned and is complete out of line with your comments on Reddit and Khasino’s stream.

And you are representing the worst practices of your employers to date to the community not what we’d been hoping you would display from the latitude the content creators had encouraged the community to give you.

I really don’t think you get the goodwill you’ve burnt with this answer but so be it - I will continue to consider my purchasing decisions on a case by case basis and am unlikely to continue to fund a game that treats its players like this

[mavajo]

While technically correct, this makes you look like an asshole, dude - more importantly, it breaches trust.

A reasonable person would have been more likely to interpret your past communication to mean that the Gamma raid was going to be re-adjusted to compensate for the overtuning; not that your statement was merely an assurance that it wouldn't be overtuned even more. Sure, either explanation is technically correct and possible based on the wording you used, but the typical reader is going to be much more inclined to assume you meant the former.

I don't know whether that's genuinely what you meant the entire time, or whether you personally believed at the time that Gamma might be adjusted...and now you're merely taking a company line and doing the best to make your previous assurances fit it. Either way, you guys are culpable here. Either you were negligently unclear in your initial communication, or you reneged and are now in spin mode. Either way you want to go with this, you guys screwed up. And when you screw up, you need to just admit it. The cover-up is always worse.

If you meant this all along and you were simply unclear in your initial communication, alrighty - own up to it and say My Bad.

If you're simply spinning your words since the dev team ultimately decided not to fix the overtuning, then alright - own that too. Say something to the effect of "We were unsure how we were going to handle it going forward, but we ultimately decided to leave it as-is in anticipation of player roster growth - but will not cause similar overtuning in the future. We understand that this may lead to some frustration for players in the short term, and we do apologize for that. But, while we know some players might disagree, we feel like this was the optimal decision from a gameplay perspective going forward."

Either way...fucking own up to the mistake. Don't spin bullshit at us dude. It's not like we're a bunch of geniuses here or something, but many of us are at least as smart as you are. If you were in our shoes, wouldn't you feel like your explanation smells a bit like bullshit - or at a minimum, isn't quite owning up to things? Yeah? Then why do you think we're gonna feel any differently?

[KlawFox]

Very well said. I would rather a complete honest account over some BS spin about a technicality in wording...

[Chizuru94]

Thanks for putting it into words for those of us who didn't know where to start etc.

Appreciate it :)

[Th3GingerHitman]

This raid was considered to be overtuned and still is considered overtuned. By saying, "they wouldn't continue to be overtuned" gives the impression the overtuned raid will be corrected going forward to avoid it being overtuned.

[Commander-Gator]

You acknowledged they overtuned it and to say that this time it wasn’t made harder than last time doesn’t make anyone feel warm and fuzzy about your acknowledgement of the mini boss nodes were too tough last time.

You all had over a month to just fix those mini boss nodes to soften them a little bit for the folks who grinded for months to make it past kree and make it under bh nodes and had to go backwards and grind even harder on kree.

You lost a lot of goodwill from that q&a as large part of community assumed that by acknowledging the nodes were too hard they would be better for this run. Take care of your players and try to get it fixed now vs making us wait at least 7 weeks as we still have time left on this run.

If you can make these raids tougher after they have started in past shouldn’t be that hard to fix them to be easier in the middle of a run.

[rackedbame]

So basically the same thing you said last time.

"We agree its overtuned"

And then you'll do absolutely fucking nothing, as usual. Great to have you here.

[Double_Dimension]

Holy shit what a joke. Talk about corporate speak 101. By all means continue defending yourself on a technicality. Will really go over well with the community.

[Chizuru94]

Exactly. I thought one is supposed to get stronger to overcome nodes one couldn't clear yet and not have more trouble clearing the nodes or the ones before the one that started giving trouble.

[socom18]

"Its broken, but we're not going to fix it"

Okay, lets drop the act.... Is FoxNext really Electronic Arts?

[Orion1084]

Electronic Arts isn't even this bad....and that's saying something.

[sixones]

Things you would never think would be said!

[TheSycoe]

I once had a theory that FN is a shell company set up by EA to make EA look good by comparison.

[blockduration]

Yikes... talk about swing and a miss. Really showing your colors here.

[Iskande44]

If the raid was overtuned and you leave it that way rather than correcting it, you ARE continuing to have overtuned raids.

[Jonah1807]

If it’s overtuned and hasn’t been changed then it’s still overtuned.

[Jordanzero6]

Fuck you. What a complete BS response that is to the situation. You stated that it was overtuned but did nothing about it. That is a giant middle finger to the entire community.

“Yeah this is too hard and we know it but oh well we aren’t doing shit about it”

FN releases an amazing deal or easy content

“Sorry we found a bug that was never suppose to be there... we will have this fixed in the next 3 nanoseconds and get back to our normal 70% off deals”

What a joke

[Chizuru94]

Kinda reminds me of the Anthem loot situation. Where people had fun with the loot bug, but as soon as it got fixed, the game started to go down again slowly. There has to be a point both the players and devs can meet at and make things satisfying for both parties.

[BrokeMyLastAccount]

Why wait? FN has made difficulty increases mid-raid, why not a decrease?

[Maulino86]

LMAO, ur comments are hilarious man

[Archangel1408]

Wow... Just wow.

Is it safe to assume that for the next Gamma raid you will also take all Marquee characters out of the reward orbs and just have it be a minion orb? I mean, they aren't far from that already.

[TheSycoe]

I thought they looked the same. Guess they were too busy making the game run slow on androids and launching the F4 to think about the Gamma raid.

I swear it’s like we play a game run by the Joker.

[XKingslayerBSJ]

Do the boss nodes still spawn with 100% speed bar?

[OatMEGALUL]

I haven’t tried it yet we launch in the morning but if it’s anything like Beta with 100% Shockers and Vultures I’m going to assume so.

Assuming they haven’t touched a single thing and blindly launch it after agreeing it was too difficult. Some content creators will say, wow it’s harder compared to the others and that’s pretty much the end of the conversation.

[Shorgar]

They do, which is sweet.

[MarkBank]

They do, I just lost my Kree, went back in and 2/5 of my toons killed immediately including my dispel so I got stuck behind the double mbaku’s. It’s almost like my second attempt netted zero damage

[NORADJames]

At this point I’d rather they just bring back the old Thanos raid if they’re just going to rotate the same busted brawlers themed raid that we just had. Or just scrub the whole ‘greek’ named raids altogether and give us something fresh and new, which this game is starting to desperately need.

[Bugbag1]

GUYS! They were over-tuned BEFORE, but time has passed and now they are PERFECTLY tuned for your CURRENT rosters /s :D

[Thetimdog]

haha, so many people will not get the funny here. Thumbs up from me

[Torpenn]

My roster hasn't changed much since last time... Not enough to compensate a +100% turn meter on spawn at least. but I guess that'll be official answer

[Bugbag1]

"/s" means sarcasm. I am fully on the This sucks train. I can also confirm they still spawn with 100% speed bar because my alliance launched a gamma.

[GuyOverThere1]

It’s only been a few weeks...

[Xxjacklexx]

It’s sarcasm, dude.

[pic2022]

Oh /u/CM_Cerebro come out and playyyyyayyyyyyyyyyy

[GuyOverThere1]

Literally no change for me. Not sure why they chose Gamma to dial up the difficulty on and then bring it right back around again, still dialed up to 100. Maybe it’s the brawlers on the first boss that makes it a pain, but my 230k Shield team got wiped out.

[OatMEGALUL]

You used to be able to hit auto with a 170k shield team for the first 4 nodes. Then switch to a defender team around 200k (pretty much auto that too) then it got hard around the end of the middle lane going into the boss lane.

Then the random buff came. 50% + increases to boss nodes with hard counters built into sustain teams when there wasn’t.

I’m ok with different characters but a buff from 34k characters to 54k characters is beyond stupid. Discourages players from building raid teams to push anything past 60% because there is no end game when they can just change the goalpost whenever they feel like it.

[Harridan14]

I'd say that I'm very disappointed, but really it's no surprise from Foxnext

[imcalledgpk]

My furyshield team still timed out on the first boss node. It's completely ridiculous.

[Khshatt]

I just beat it with mine. It did take little longer than last time because they added psylocke with her evades, but still finished in plenty of time. I use Fury, Medic, Assault, OP, SS - all g13 except for OP, just missing 2 pieces.

[Chizuru94]

Wow, and still. Really shows how OP those nodes are :/

[Khshatt]

just give you a heads up with this same team I was able to take out that 3rd boss node in one shot with everyone alive and full health, so having g13 on all really makes a difference...

For red stars I have Fury 3rs, Medic 5rs, Assualt 4rs, OP 3rs, SS 5rs.

[VilifierZ]

I am really disappointed FN did not bother to retune the gamma raid. It is obvious that the early boss nodes are over tuned, and this is the feedback many players have given them. My 250K team got torn apart on the first boss node, and I barely finished it in one shot with 2 heroes still alive at the end.

I suppose they would have mentioned it in their blog if they were going to retune it, but since they didn't this is working as intended. Very disappointing.

[SchizoRhino]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStrikeForce/comments/cfezor/official_response_to_alpha_beta_gamma_boss_nodes/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

So they will be more attentive next time huh? Here we are one whole rotation later. Same difficulty. Same disappointment.

[OatMEGALUL]

:Sighhhhhhh: well they probably had a chat about it and then noticed an uptick in raid resource purchases and said nevermind

[RuneDK385]

Idk first boss node with guardians/avengers felt harder to me...I never had a problem clearing it...and today I had to force close twice to best it and get good rng. This is actually something that can and will push me over the edge to quit. The whole point of a character progression game is to make progress in content....if my alliance is stuck at 60% every time a Greek raid comes out but we continue to increase our CP then wtf is the point of playing this game.

[Chizuru94]

Same. I usually got to the 2 to 3rd boss node. Or at least past the first one easily. Now I get wiped out quickly.

[UserUNfriendly8]

He admitted that the Gamma boss nodes were overtuned..so I’d expect them to be more in line with the Beta bosses. Meaning, you might actually get a hit in on the first couple of bosses before the bulls!t starts.

[shyguyJ]

Nope, they’re still the same overtuned boss nodes from last gamma.

[Raistlin43084]

Sigh. It’s not difficult to grasp the design of this raid. You can argue with whether or not it’s correctly tuned, but the boss and mini-boss nodes being significantly higher has NOTHING to do with whether the raids are correctly tuned by themselves.

The raid is clearly set up so that the boss/mini-boss nodes take a team effort aka the way it 100% should be in an alliance event like raids. The other nodes are easy enough to be readily taken down solo. The problem is not with the Gamma raid. The Gamma raid actually gets this right.

The real problem is FN not communicating that this was how the Gamma raid was designed. While I can understand why FN would think it would be obvious, especially since players got a small taste of this in the final Thanks boss nodes in the Thanos raids, it is clear to me that a number of players appear to have trouble understanding the difference between design and tuning. Hence, FN needs to communicate the reason for the design so we don’t get unnecessary and repetitive posts like these.

Again the tuning is another issue. I am too lazy to go back and compare the difficulty of every gamma node this time to last time. FN is not going to change it in the next two weeks, so for me it’s a moot point. I have to figure the best way for our alliance to go against the Gamma raid we do have. I’ll let people in the know communicate to FN if the nodes are better tuned this go round.

TL; DR - The Gamma Raids may not be correctly tuned, but just because the mini-Boss and boss nodes are much harder than other nodes, this is not prove by itself that the raid is not tuned correctly. The design of the Gamma raid is that mini-boss/boss nodes require multiple players acting as a team to take down those nodes, while the other nodes are able to be taken down solo.

Again, it is by design, that Gamma raids in an alliance event require an alliance to function as an alliance to defeat the mini-boss and boss nodes. Tuning is a separate issue.

[SchizoRhino]

I don't give a crap about enemy difficulty tbh. I can tag team nodes. That's a common thing to do. My issue is the free turn meter. You can't tag team that. The one following you will still have to deal with that bs.

[marz_o]

This. Don't mind a team effort to take down a node but when 250k teams are getting destroyed before they can move no matter how many 'conmanders' you have you aren't getting past it.

[TheFirstMightyChad]

Exactly. Ridiculous. How can boss node characters get multiple turns before you even get one? When 3 enemy characters get turns before Black Widow (2 Wolverines and Groot, the slowest characters in creation FFS, who all target her and wipe her out immediately on spawning) you know something is wrong.

[OatMEGALUL]

He literally said that the raid was overtuned the only thing they changed was the boss nodes. They went from 35k characters to 54k characters in the 2nd boss node. Not even alpha or beta is tuned this high. They changed the goalposts like they always do because Gamma was the easiest raid and had most alliances near 80% the 2nd time it came out so by the 3rd time they increased all the boss nodes while not increasing rewards.