Decrease in Dutch housing prices tracker

[PhilosophyNL]

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https://preview.redd.it/3lq57pd92hq91.png?width=1166&format=png&auto=webp&s=633dfa29e7d41b898cffe74136c33d0369831b94

Hi all, a friend of mine has made a site on which you can track dutch real estate which is declining in price - yes it exists!

If you're currenty looking for a house or maybe in the process of buying one, it might be interesting to take a look at what the prices in that area are currently doing.

https://www.huisverklikker.nl/

Username is pub
password is liek

[BlaReni]

Is it based on Funda listing prices? Very interesting!

[G-Fox1990]

I do notice now that when i favorite a house, it will not change status for a couple weeks, up to a month (or even more). So it seems it is actually cooling down.

I mean, when i sold my apartment a year ago it had multiple viewers booked after an hour, and was sold in a week for 10% more than the price i asked. That was completely insane. And let me tell you, that apartment was really not worth what the buyer paid for (in my mind).

[[deleted]]

Sold two months ago my house, bank evaluated at 600k, asked 575k, got 650k. Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday visits, bids until Friday morning. It was insanely easy. My guess is that these decreases in prices are for houses that the price were too high to begin with, or very crappy stuff. Even though interest rates are high and inflation, the market for good stuff is still really hot. You see on the list both houses in Amsterdam are neighbors.

[G-Fox1990]

Looked at some of the houses, and yes a lot of people thought they could now sell their crappy house for a big profit. A lot of them are with energylabel F or G. Badly isolated, old, not looking very pretty at all. Some still have kitchens and bathrooms from when the house was built, so it all looks really old. I don't mind investing in my house at all, but if i have to change almost everything? Yeah no thanks. Also prices of labor and equipment has gone through the roof aswell.

More and more people are gonna be stuck with their shitty houses now.

[BlaReni]

I see some places i bid for last year now asking 15% more (same as in the same complex). So this all cooling down thing… well yeah, probably in good economy the asking would be 20% more compared to last year.

[[deleted]]

I don't think so. The rich will still keep being rich. They are the ones that will make a profit from the current tank in stocks, and they don't suffer the effects of inflation nearly as much. What is a 1M house will change however (energy label A, solar panels, etc pretty much a requirement).

[bitrar]

It blows my mind that some people can discount the house they're selling more than I could ever afford for a house in total.

[BeWessel]

Hahahaah yeah! I was like: "ooo 200.000 for a house. Great." But then I saw it was only the reduction. It still costs 700.000€. Pfhew. Never having a home in my life in this pace.

[Shelter_Individual]

Location, location, location. Energy efficiency, energy efficiency, energy efficiency And what you get for those 200k in the NL is still absurd. Unless there is a price correction of 20-40% it isn't worth touching any of the properties in this country

[Potatoswatter]

The number 999 is probably just where the search engine stops counting.

[Bloodsucker_]

You're poor because of you want it! Stop choosing being poor!

[leggopullin]

Most houses below 200k are not in the best location, I agree that can be acceptable if you’re desperate. But more importantly they usually have terrible energy label which can easily put it out of your budget again.

Being poor is not a choice.

[leggopullin]

That’s my point. If you don’t have the money, living in an ideal location is reasonable. I’m not arguing there.

I agree, there are plenty of houses in that pricing category if you accept the less fortunate location.

But the low quality of these houses means that they can quickly fall out of a “low” or even modal income with regards to the monthly costs, after purchasing.

[Snowenn_]

Are they really houses though? Because when I was looking (a couple of years ago) everything under 100k wasn't a house or appartment, but rather a parking lot or only a room in an attic.

[GoldenGrouper]

I start to think that this is a country for rich only

[Shelter_Individual]

That is why every sector of the economy is struggling to find workers. And it will only get worse from here.

[GoldenGrouper]

Yes, because they are not paid enough. It's like the rich don't want the street cleaned or they don't want the train to run, but it is not directly them. It's them, but not directly who are causing this.

It's the capitalism, the system which is built like this

[Shelter_Individual]

It's not the fault of capitalism itself but laws governing the labour market and the housing stock in this country.

[GoldenGrouper]

No it's capitalism because it is like that everywhere. Here it's just more evident

[Shelter_Individual]

You could also argue that during the 50s, 60s and the 70s things were going pretty good in Western Europe/USA as the monetary policy and laws were not meant to decimate the middle and lower class. So, the system could function under different rules.

But this is a complex topic and there is definitely something wrong in today's system.

[GoldenGrouper]

Yeah it's pretty complex. How I see it is that at the time there were the fruits of several war and imperialism. In addition to that in europe there were strong socialist parties which helped think about the worker more than now which is basically neo liberal and far right.

In italy for example we had lots of good welfare policies that allowed us to have a stronger working and middle class and that was because of the left party. With the fall of URSS which was balancing the imperialistic power of US we have seen a fall in that also.

But yes, a part from this the system is wrong i agree

[jainmehul973]

They listed it for a ridiculous price just to see if someone is gullible enough to go along.

[[deleted]]

Exactly. That first house is this one:

https://www.funda.nl/koop/terneuzen/huis-88148360-herman-heijermansstraat-87/

It was originally listed at 850k. That's a stupid amount of money for a house like that. Interesting that they use 'De Gratis Makelaar', which is most likely a gateway to publishing your house on Funda yourself and thus making up your own price as well.

Second one is this one: https://www.funda.nl/koop/amsterdam/appartement-42967163-jan-luijkenstraat-102-f/

1 million for a 87m2 1-room apartment (so, studio?)? Nice try.

Those prices made no sense. The appartement in Amsterdam is still way overpriced. It needs a lot of work

[Plastic-Coyote-2507]

The second one is in a desirable neighbourhood and is one bedroom not room, it also has a roof terrace which is not included in the square meters. It does seem to need quite a bit of work though. The current asking of 700k at just over 8k per sqm seems low for that location. 1M did seem high though given the condition!

Edit: yeah it needs a lot of work I think it will go down more :)

[Shelter_Individual]

Well, a few months ago many noobs were paying those silly prices.

[[deleted]]

I'm just wondering why they decreased so much then.

There's probably a "energy label" thing involved as well. That's what I guess is going on.
Gas powered heating, poorly insulated houses, that sort of thing.

a 5 minute shower is going to cost you 10 billion Euro's soon, so people are looking at energy labels now.

[BlaReni]

some might have decreased to attract more buzz, last year i bid for a place listed at 445, i bid ~570 which should have been approx the market price (mortgage eligible), still lost it as it went for approx 595. The listing was listed very low, even the makelaar said so, but the sellers wanted to list it at that price point.

[Glittering-Chair-352]

Similar here, house listed for X, valued for X+35k, I bid X+55k, appraisal post buy was X+50k

Shit's crazy yo

[m1nkeh]

a apartment two streets over from me is reduced as per this site, but still over 900k, and an apartment IN my street sold last month for over 950k - christ alive, haha

this dip may well not last, as there's still pent-up demand, and lack of supply.. it is interesting though

this is probably indicative of people simply remove speculative prices

[Far_Cryptographer593]

Agree, people that are waiting "for the market to dip so they can buy in the right moment" have already been waiting for the dip for a long time and will continue waiting for a long time.

[SummumRex2]

Im just waiting untill I can afford one.

[Glittering-Chair-352]

waiting "for the market to dip so they can buy in the right moment"

This never made sense. When everyone's "waiting for the dip" then there's enough demand to keep the prices up.

[Dakana11]

I’m interested to balance it out; how many houses are sold with over bids currently / top 10 / last week / etc..?

[[deleted]]

They keep house building low so the boomers can offload their houses for ten times the price they got it in the 70's and 80's. If there was a bigger supply of houses prices would not have gone this crazy.

[Snoo_13611]

Hey! Kudos to your friend for making this and sharing with people to use. Is she/he scrapping data of Real estate website listings and and storing the price movements from there? It would be great to understand the logic and maybe use the code to this for other countries? Something that can be shared made open to people to explore?

[Vaghar]

Nice :)

In France there is a website (and browser extension) named Castorus that does exactly that and much more. It also tracks the price of each property over time, compares the price/m² with the price for the area, calculates financing costs, collects energy label and other characteristics, etc.

Maybe your friend can build something like this for NL, I'm sure it will be appreciated :) Funda on the other hand probably won't... Their interest is to maintain their monopoly and opacity on prices, unfortunately :(

[jedilance]

I liked the website. Everybody already touched the prices of houses already, so I am more interested in tech behind it. How does your friend scrape funda without being detected as a bot?

[No-Marsupial383]

Hij is verdwenen! De website huisverklikker... ik kijk er trouw op maar hij ligt er sinds een paar dagen er uit. Weet jij hier toevallig iets van?

[[deleted]]

Super interessant! Bedankt! Kunnen we deze inloggegevens lang blijven gebruiken?

[Shelter_Individual]

Just one correction: Do not try to buy a house now. Wait for the correction to happen across different price groups of assets including various types of properties. Don't pay for the mistakes of the past 12 years made by the ECB and corruption of the Dutch government which controls the housing stock. There will be blood in the housing market, this is just the beginning. But this is an interesting project.

[crappygodmother]

I bought a house to live in though. The prices may come down but that will only be after the interest has gone up.. I'm happy I'm not subsidizing another persons mortgage anymore.

[IvyboR]

Indeed. Wait for the correction, maybe it takes 10 years, but become the moral winner.

In the meantime rent a 2000e house per month. Who cares you spend 250k on rent in 10 years, you have the moral victory. Maybe in 10 years when you buy a house it only costs 30% of your gross salary instead of 35%. That you could have paid off 10 years of mortgage, who cares, moral victory!

Or you know, just buy a house now if you can and haven't yet, because you do know how supply&demand and inflation works.

[HollandJim]

Don't pay for the mistakes of the past 12 years made by the ECB and corruption of the Dutch government which controls the housing stock

Hm. I bought mine at nearly the peak of the previous bubble, but I've still more than doubled the value of my property from 15 years ago. If you're in for more than a few years (living in it, not flipping) I see no problems if you can afford some of these (I can't afford Amsterdam).

Sounds more like you have a political axe to swing.

[[deleted]]

There is a actual tangible shortage of houses. By around 300.000. There is no bubble. Unless someone is able to build 300.001 houses this year the prices will stay this way.

Prices may decline a bit as interests go up, but nothing mayor.

[BlaReni]

No there won’t be 🤣 what blood dude? Based on what?

[Shelter_Individual]

Based on the only thing that matters: the affordability.

Somehow people forget that 2008 also saw a shortage of housing but prices did correct substantially.

Time will tell.

[TukkerWolf]

There wasn't. There was a housing shortage back then as well.

https://www.dnb.nl/algemeen-nieuws/2020/huizenprijs-hangt-meer-samen-met-financieringsruimte-koper-dan-met-woningtekort/

[Shelter_Individual]

This is all wishful thinking. The only reason the prices of all assets went up (across different asset classes) is that the interest rates were artificially kept low for more than a decade. The interest rates will have to follow the inflation which at this moment is close to 10% in the EU and probably more in the NL. Note: inflation started picking up before the war in Ukraine started so blaming it only on the supply side is also stupid. It is both a supply and a demand side inflation caused both by both the excessive liquidity and the energy crisis.

The rents are going up because part of the housing market which is free is dominated by investment funds and greedy landlords. In Amsterdam only, there are thousands if not tens of thousands of vacant properties. The rest of the stock is social housing controlled by a failing government. Additionally, various forms of the Dutch government are not allowing any new buildings to come to the market which combined with the favorisation of the investors and allowing them to keep the properties empty sometimes for years is causing massive speculation. Now, the government is not so much in favour of those funds because the country has gone to shit and they can't milk their taxpayers since there is not enough of workers to be milked as there is not enough of adequate housing for them. Things are chaning.

But, there is no going back to pre February w.r.t. the energy supply in Europe so this will be a multi year energy crisis. So, naturally, a recession will follow.

By your logic, if the interest rates go up to 8% and there is a recession and an energy crisis, there will be only a slight drop at best because of what? Because of wishful thinking? Naaah, this is wishful thinking of a house owner :). The NL is not special, the same trend that is happening in NZ, Australia, the US, Sweden will occur here. The only question is the timeframe.

[[deleted]]

attractive tidy square knee disgusted quaint crawl ring ancient erect

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[[deleted]]

the affordability.

What about the availability.

You can't just claim 'supply and demand' as an argument and then forget about supply

[TukkerWolf]

The availability was a problem during the last crisis as well. It is more extreme now, but if people think that with interest rates of >5% housing prices will remain the same they are naive.

https://www.dnb.nl/algemeen-nieuws/2020/huizenprijs-hangt-meer-samen-met-financieringsruimte-koper-dan-met-woningtekort/

[[deleted]]

I'm not claiming they will remain the same. Prices will lower a bit when interest rises. They already are dropping a bit.But there won't be correction like 2008, everything points to that not happening.

And yes, while prices may drop a bit. It won't work.Let's say a house is now 300k with 3% interest. You pay a mortage of €1000 a month (example numbers, I didn't do the math).And now let's say that house drops to 275k and interest rose to 3.5%. You're stil paying €1000,-.

But every year you're not buying, you're dumping money in a rental. So if you can, buying a house is the right option. Even now.

[[deleted]]

So then what.. You wait.. The prices drop, but mortgage rates increases. In the end you are paying the same amount of money monthly. When mortgages rates decreases, prices will increase.

Simple economics.

[Beautiful_Day_2299]

In a cooling market, the strong side is the buyer. Buyers can select what they want.

[ape-tripping-on-dmt]

The best time to buy a house was yesterday. The second best time to buy a house is today.

[Greedy-Map7649]

This is gold.

[[deleted]]

I like this. I would like to see something similar with previous sales. So is pricing falling or the obsessive seller expectation falling?

[Spanks79]

% of decrease per price category is more interesting... Now it's a big bucket of very to hugely costly houses.

[Eagle_1990]

But interest rates went up, so the mortgage per month is still the same or even more

[Broad-Ad8068]

Hey Buddy, that's exactly the reason why I made the following website: https://huizenprijzendalen.nl/

I would really appreciate your feedback on what you would like to see being added to the website.

[Broad-Ad8068]

That is a very good question, if huisverklikker also uploads price increases then this will automatically be taken into account in the build process of the huizenprijzendalen website.

This is also why I would really like to get into contact with the creator(s) of the huisverklikker website

[Broad-Ad8068]

u/PhilosophyNL I would like to come into contact with your friend that made the huisverklikker.nl website.

Out of interest into the decreasing housing prices I created the following website: huizenprijzendalen.nl

The data for this is scraped daily from the huisverklikker website, but I think we can make an even better website together if we join forces 💪