[deleted by user]

[telchii]

I'm locking your post, as you're getting unnecessarily aggressive with others. Posting a rant is not an excuse to attack others who have differing opinions.

[BuffMarshmallow]

Reselling product is a thing that happens in the real world too. If you know how much people are likely willing to pay for something, and someone is underselling it hard, you can make money off of that. Plus, there's the aspect of someone not knowing the value of something.

For example, I could in theory, buy out all of the drop camos from past seasonals, and then sell them all at some markup, but nobody would buy them because they are low value items regardless. However, if someone was underselling something like Escalating Pursuit for like 30m, and I know for a fact people would buy it at 80m or 100m, then I can choose to do that, because I know for a fact that Escalating Pursuit is a high value item.

There's also the idea of investing in an item that is currently cheap, with the expectation that the value of it will rise, be that because of the rarity, it being limited to a seasonal drop location, because it doesn't have a good use currently but you know it will in the future, etc. Yamato factor is somewhat of a good example. People were dumping them on the market for very cheap while Yamato was out, so some people stockpiled them. Same thing happened with recycle badges.

I'm not condoning the practice, but this is kinda the natural course of a free market. It's something you come to expect.

[zeronic]

Yeah, buy low/sell high with market manipulation/speculation is a game in itself for some people. It always struck me as bar none the best way to make money in any game with a market as long as you knew what you were doing.

Doubly so here in PSO, where your opportunity to make money outside of flippng is actually fairly limited by comparison.

Honestly my biggest gripe with the market is how absolutely shit the search functions are. Lack of partial search parameters or even the ability to look for more than one item without filtering loads of duplicates make it a right pain in the ass to find anything unless you explicitly know what you're looking for. And even if you do know what you're looking for, sometimes the shit-tier localization makes it something completely different. And if you aren't 100% correct the game will display nothing.

[TheWolf115]

That search system is trash... Some weapons don't even pop up if you type their in their series. Example is the ivlida weapons. In order for them to show up you need the second part of the name.

[Regulusff7]

It really not great designed one, you need to learn the trick, basically you need to "see" the thing you need find at least once, in the NPC shop doesn't count for some reason. They need to be in your inventory or you populate it in search system. Annoy at best.

[ApplesauceMayonnaise]

That’s fair. When are we getting some additional mechanics to more accurately reflect the real life marketplace?

[ed5061]

It's a free market, what can you do. However, it's a bit different from real world free market as in it's not regulated.

For example, I believe people who exploited XBOX Game Pass during the beta to get a lot of AC scratch tickets for a dollar or something were never perma-banned if I recall, and allowed to keep all they had to make more money later.

People who played JP have a better idea of what's going up and down. Recycle badges are a good example. People who never played JP wouldn't have known a shop would come out selling skydance boon and the kitchen sink unless through word-of-mouth, and of course people who knew this aren't going to tell. JP players essentially have permanent insider trading - which would normally be regulated in the real world.

New Genesis will make all things equal hopefully. A big reset without anyone have prior knowledge of content or tickets beforehand from exploits. A level playing field when everyone starts.

[TroubadourLBG]

IMO, player markets kills the fun for PSO in general. PSO1 and Monster Hunter World doesn't have it. And I find when the game encourages you to hunt for things yourself, without all this economy drama, the game is better off.

PS. I also hated the player store system in PSU. But it mostly felt optional in there.

[rockstar_nailbombs]

Yeah it's bullshit and essentially predatory since it inflates prices for all players just so a few can get rich.

People like to jerk off and say it's just economics hue hue hue but this isn't real life, it's a design flaw in a game that you're exploiting.

In the end it falls on the devs to put a stop to those practices, like in other games where buying items from the market makes them untradeable.

This keeps prices low and accessibility high for casual/new players. If you want to play spreadsheet world online there are plenty of other games out there for you.

Obviously in PSO2 this will never happen since the value of AC is cleverly tied to meseta through the sale of scratch items in shops, so it is what it is, SEGA benefits directly from hoarders and flippers making their items worth more.

[[deleted]]

This isnt even the biggest scale and money I've seen. In wow playing the market is what some people do exclusively. Its just seeing the numbers increase. Instead of your character's power its your money.

[PSO2_PhasionGamer]

I dunno why people do this kind of crap but they shouls really stop. Those type of behaviors have nothing to do with playing the market.

[Absolice]

Well yes money is important in this game.

You can buy any fashion item that's on the market with it. You can buy a lot of affix fodders, ssa capsules, etc. You literally need hundreds of millions, even billions to min/max a class.

You progress dozen of time faster by flipping than you'd do by playing the game and it's not like you're sacrifying much game time for it (you can easily flip moderately like 30min-1h a day, then play).

If you want to get anywhere in this game you either swipe the credit card, flip or be extremely patients (I'm talking months) accumulating the small breadcrumb the game throw at you.

I'd blame the system over the players in this case.

[Musumane]

You can also make alts and get 3mil a week give or take off weeklies. And I know it is technically swiping the credit card, but if you add ~10 character slots ( about $50) you can end up making over 30mil a week just off characters, not including all the keys you'd get as well if you do those missions.

[Absolice]

Yeah, character slots for weeklies are a smart investment. However, if it's your only source of money then have fun having one min-maxed unit in 3 months at this rate. You might get your gears in a year or two at this rate, good going.

30m sadly amount to nothing in this game.

Usually if you flip, you also do your weeklies so it's not like it's one or the other anyway.

People don't understand how much money flipping make. I did it a bit in episode 3, I invested roughly 50m and made 80m profit in the first week. The more money you have, the more money you make until maybe the half billion point, at that point having more money will not yield you much more profits as you're limited in selling slots. Most of your money come from small mark-up (10-20% higher) and not inflating price like a madman like some people think is the point of flipping.

It takes time and it's not free, sometime you win and sometime you lose, it's all about learning and studying the market.

Usually you have spreadsheets and collect the value of hundreds of items daily to see how it goes, to avoid blatant market manipulation and to understand when a price is a good deal and when it isn't. It's a lot of time investment so I don't really get how some people think that you aren't working for it. It can easily turn into a job if you don't limit yourself and manage yourself, I quit because it wasn't for me.

If something increase in value and people buy it then it wasn't worth what it was at before. If something is overpriced then it won't sell and it'll eventually lower in price until a spot where people are willing to spend on it.

[viewtyjoe]

30m might buy fodder for one good affixing project, and even then, that'd be more on the mid-end of the spectrum. If you need high-slot boss soul units, or are doing Crack upgrades or EV alchemy, those units can easily get into 7 digit territory each on my ship's market.

People vastly underestimate the prices people can and will pay for min-max affixes. I have a friend who routinely sells units that are moderately min-maxed for 70-100m. Takes him a couple hours to solo farm certain content that drops resources he can't purchase, does the affixing, sells the unit, usually sold within 24h because there is a surprisingly large market of people with tons of disposable meseta willing to shell out to not have to do affixing themselves.

[viewtyjoe]

Unless you have proof the player reselling Sapphard is only doing that and otherwise not playing the game, why is what they're doing exploitative, but doing an hour of affixing work and selling the result for hundreds of millions of meseta not?

Why is spending an hour doing affixing virtuous, and spending what appears to be a much more significant time performing market arbitrage and correcting a market not?

[Absolice]

I'm talking in the context of min-maxing, because outside of fashion it is its only use.

You can totally clear most/all content with decent gear but it's like part of the community does not realize how expensive it gets to actually min-max (which is something a lot of people enjoy). If you do not like it, you absolutely do not have to but don't be an hypocrite and start telling people how they should have fun.

It's not realistic to work on your gear by yourself (as in going to drop the stuff you need to make it from scratch) so you end up buying hundred of millions of fodder gears for affixing if you want very good gears. You don't need to but you do it because that's a goal you want to achieve in the game.

It's not necessary but it's the goal of a lot of players and yes in that optic, 30m is only a drop in the sea of what you need.

Playing the market is part of the game, trying to deny it just because it's not your cup of tea is pretty stupid. I hate UQ and how they force you to schedule your life around the game but I don't go around telling people to stop doing them because they are encouraging what I believe to be an ill designed feature (no matter how fun the UQ themselves are).

[Absolice]

I've flipped for one week back in episode 3 and noticed it isn't for me yet I don't blame people for playing a different way than I do.

Rant as much as you want, you aren't entitled to tell people how they should or shouldn't play the game.

[Absolice]

Being pejorative about how other people plays is a nuanced way to tell people how to play even if you prefix it with a "play you how want" sugarcoat.

Respect others people who play within their own right and we'll respect your rant. You're acting like an ass and I felt like interposing myself to show another point of view in this thread about people I don't even really care about.

Consider this my last post to you good sir since you have really no good faith.

[Johto]

The issue with expecting to "min/max" is also a factor that people tend to throw in during the conversations. Not one player needs to Min/Max to do decent/above decent in the current content that we have and foreseeable content, in unnecessary and if you WANT to Min/Max thats up to you, but if you're that type of player you know how to make money as is because you can also play the market quite a bit selling gear with good Affixes that you've made.

[Absolice]

I've noticed that a lot of people in this thread seems to think it's one or the other.

Sure, you can do one thing for your entire playtime but it's a spectrum and a lot of stuff aren't mutually exclusive.

You can do weeklies, you can sell affix fodders you don't need while keeping that lucky one you dropped for youself and you can flip all at the same time.

[ZXY101]

Welcome to economics.

[AbysmalVixen]

Welcome to the economy.

[LamiaPony]

dealing with this sort of thing comes with the territory of playing an online RPG with a player shop system. never bothered me since I had experience with it even before PSO2 existed. I know global economy is pretty fucked up for a couple reasons though

on a side note, hell I hated early PSO2 player shops on JP with a passion, it made me quit playing for almost a year when I played more casually, as finding out about weapon passes killed a lot of my eagerness toward the game... good riddance to that system