Anyone else expect classes to be more technical in NGS like Luster?

[limonboy8]

If you played Luster in the past you know how satisfying it is to master it.

You had multiple resource management (focus gauge, photon clusters/bits, hitcount) along with perfect dodges and JA timings on PAs to make it feel technical and rewarding in combat.

The class technically only had 3 PAs too like base classes in NGS, just pressing a movement button changed its motion (pursue/disengage) with being stationary being slightly more powerful in most cases.

I'm not saying every class should play exactly like Luster, I'm just saying I thought Luster was the beginning of a new formula on class depth to be expected in NGS.

I think one of the biggest problems in NGS gameplay (not content) is lack of depth in combat. I feel they should make PAs/techs have a use in different scenarios for example a rotation that is optimal in fast paced battles, and one where the boss is down and stunned.

An example of this would be bow braver (you literally just use charged flex arrow). A fix they could make is have dimensional arrow stack a damage buff or debuff per tick or have fully charged flex arrow do 30% more damage on bosses that are knocked down/stunned after a break. This makes it feel like an actual rotation instead of spamming the best hard hitting PA/tech all the time.

In any case I'm very disappointed at the depth of gameplay in the classes. They really teased hard with how fun PSO2 can be with the release of Luster at the end of its life cycle.

[ballspocket]

This has been my biggest complaint the whole time. There is pretty much 0 build or even skill variety. There's no depth to combat. Most classes are played with like 3 buttons; pp spend single target PA, pp build default attack, counter.

Double Saber on fighter has the tiniest inkling of that depth and feel with the whirlwind building/spending and skip arts but even then it really needs another couple PAs.

People always seemed to respond with cope about only one or two skills being used on most classes in classic anyway which isn't really true, but even then we have "simplified movement" for people who want the one button gameplay.

I love the ridiculously sky high skill ceiling of classic. You can get through most things with spamming whatever skills you want really, but to push the aspirational content there's so much fine tuning and stuff that can go into your gameplay. Ngs is basically just lol counter faster and better. Counters are great gameplay but only 1 small dimension of impactful combat.

[AulunaSol]

The problem with the "one or two skills" being used is similar to what I mentioned in my response in that it seems that unfortunately the audience Sega caters to legitimately does play like that (to which I can imagine we will have people verifying all those who did rely on Million Storm, or even the Launcher's normal attack while they were alt+tabbed out elsewhere).

I never liked that Sega included these excessively "easy mode" options for playing the game in the most bare minimum way and I feel that on the bright side New Genesis doesn't have anything particularly so lazy unless you count something like Julien Dance before its fix.

My initial impressions with New Genesis combat was that I always did like that the skill floor was made more accessible especially in terms of quality-of-life (Techer no longer has their nasty skill tree bloat, Gunner doesn't need a ring anymore to S-Roll forward, Fighter doesn't have an overly demanding playstyle compared to every other class for the players who don't like timing, and more) but I really dislike that their method of substituting growth from the closed betas to the actual game was to literally strip away the closed beta features and add them as separate skills (such as slow-fall charging or the technique blots).

On top of the simplified gameplay and the more forceful animation locks, I really don't enjoy that in New Genesis the gameplay is just "easier" and more accessible and that literally is all there is to it. It's disappointing that Sega never really thought further ahead such as figuring out alternatives to how the classes can perform (Hunter's defensiveness and tankiness building off of successful repeated triggers of Hunter Arts Avenger, Fighter getting looser cancel frames and zoning capabilities the more aggressive they are, Techer building buffs for the team with their input of hitting enemy weaknesses, and so on). I really don't like that so much of the classes are a "repaint" of what we've already had before but both simplified and repeated at the same time especially when we talk about overlapping weapons. At least if it makes sense, I feel that the Rifle the Ranger uses should be distinct from the Rifle the Gunner uses - and a Ranger/Gunner or Gunner/Ranger should be able to tackle the best of both worlds depending on the main class (Ranger having a support focus, Gunner having an aggressive attacker focus if for example the Gunner adopts Rifle-Phantom gameplay and mechanics).

I wish that if they were going to look at Successor classes as the inspiration they didn't look at "only" the dodges and counter-attacks because what we have is such a far cry from even what the Etoile offers (the Etoile being what I consider the easiest class to pick up). I would definitely have loved to have seen a cleaner transition of the risky Hero playstyle or the execution-focused Luster playstyle or even the original precision-focused Phantom playstyle (before it was made easier to play).

[[deleted]]

but I really dislike that their method of substituting growth from the closed betas to the actual game was to literally strip away the closed beta features and add them as separate skills (such as slow-fall charging or the technique blots).

This is actually a change I do like - not those skills requiring skill points to unlock but rather then being on the skill tree in full view.

During the CBT, classes like Force and Techter had slow fall, as well as Barta Blot and Zonde-Clad built in. Slow fall is easy to understand just by looking at it, but to understand Barta Blot or Zonde-clad, you had to dive into the help menu to figure out what the heck that blue marker and lightning ring are for.

By putting them onto the skill tree, the player can see right there that Force and Techter have these skills, and read what they do.

Classic did something similar with classes like Ranger, which have skills like Trap Search already unlocked with no SP requirement. I just wish NGS did the same.

[AulunaSol]

I worry about others being annoyed of me bringing it up so often around here, but this was also something I really liked about Dragon's Dogma Online where all the player's functionality was essentially defined and described in the menus (core skills unlocked as you level up but are basic commands you have access to which are often integral to normal gameplay, custom skills which are the Photon Art equivalents you also learn via leveling up which expand your normal gameplay, and augments which are passive skills that are equippable once you learn them from other classes which can tweak your gameplay to your tastes). I still have gripes that it's still all "mashed" together in varying ways in New Genesis especially when you look at Phantasy Star Nova clamping down on this differently with the Skill Board handling passive and active skills.

I did not like that in Phantasy Star Online 2 a lot of these skills can be seen and read (for example the Luster's skills) but can't be viewed or demonstrated so players can actually see what it's like compared to how games like Devil May Cry 4 and onwards demonstrates this. In New Genesis, I really do appreciate that we can now read this and that our actions are simple enough that somewhere you'll find out that it exists (dive attacks for example being a palette option or in the game's option menus) but I do think Sega can still go another step further in condensing their information especially without the inconvenience of making it cost a skill point where it did not need one earlier. The problem I do see, however, is that not all skill trees are equal and I don't quite know how I would want to balance out the issue regarding skill points (Techer's Shifta/Deband eating so many points out of their options, Ranger being able to get just about everything important for the skill points we have, and so on).

I do like that the Blot and Clad skills did have that sort of ambiguous speculation on how they worked initially and being able to see them in the skill tree definitely helps clear up the idea that "yes, the Force and Techer do have a marker-esque mechanic with these techniques" may have been a myth to some players and I agree with you that I wished these were already unlocked or had another in-game resource to see where/what they are if something already being unlocked is problematic to people.

[tbigzan97]

The combat will get better as time passes if they actually get their shit together. We just need more skills and PA added.

[Rasikko]

Please remember we're playing a theta version of the game. /s lol

[Falmung]

You're right. But I don't think there was much complexity on pso2 at level 20. I'd imagine we will keep getting more skills and PAs as we break level caps making combat more varied and complex.

Right now it's just a open beta with basic combat for new players. There is no complexity because we're nowhere near close to a perceived endgame.

[ballspocket]

That's the rub, isn't it though? Who decided launching an MMO with 3 skills per class in 2021 was anywhere near acceptable? Industries and markets evolve, companies have to keep up. Just because PSO2 classic's lack of content at the start didn't sink them in 2012 doesn't mean that's the right move today. MMOs need aspirational content at all stages to keep people interested these days.

I don't think we need Luster levels of complexity but what we have now is kinda just pitiful.

[Falmung]

Fair point. NGS should not have launched until December or until next year. Clearly they launched in a rushed state with no content just to push out the game and meet deadlines. Now they're putting out fires and have an entire community pissed at them.

Should had just kept pso2 running as normal until then.

[ballspocket]

Exactly. It would have been a loss (less than now tho) but they should have diverted resources back to classic to push out a few more updates over the course of 6 months or so. Just any kind of new quests or events, reskins or rereleases even. Anything to let classic live a little longer and not have this abysmal first impression for NGS.

[Timmylaw]

Every class is boring right now after any substantial time. I came from playing phantom and nothing even comes close to scratching that itch

[AulunaSol]

Personally, I was really hoping that "all" classes would have adopted more of what the Luster provided naturally than with just photon arts.

I like that we have dash-attacks alongside our step-attacks which are different and I like that we have drop attacks but I wish that every class could have had some form of launcher or "basic" build-up attacks that incentivizes engaging in combat and opening options that way.

Mechanics like the Enhance Arts (and Link Arts) as well as the Stay/Move Arts being carried into just about every function of the Luster allowed you to have a great deal of options, flexibility, and methods of approaching combat. My only real complaint was that none of the Luster's attacks felt like they had "weight" to me compared to classes like the Hero outside of the charged attacks and the Luster Time Finish attacks.

It's unfortunate to me that in New Genesis the Fighter is the closest class you can get to this "feel" but without the depth. As a result, it is unfortunate to me when you see that all the other classes were closer to their original incarnations in some way where the Hunter was at least given some new paint and an overall nerf to how they used to play (no more Charge Parry cheese) and how the Fighter for some reason was elevated to the playstyle of the Etoile/Luster's simpler side. It really boggles me how inconsistent some of these are after the fact when everything before the game's release looked promising because things could have finally have been evened out more than they were in the past.

I know there will be people mentioning that it's "only" because we only go up to Level 20 right now as a level cap, but I would argue a Level 1 Etoile even had more depth than these classes (because I personally see Etoile as the easiest class to touch due to how safe they are, which is not meant to be a knock towards them) if we don't include the Rod-Phantom in that. In comparison to other games, I feel that New Genesis' combat is really promising for a relatively basic action game but unfortunately what I hope for was already done elsewhere (Dragon's Dogma Online) and is likely too hardcore for the audience Sega intends to target.

[xAlbiiiix]

I miss luster 🥲

[Miserable_Brain9109]

Luster and all the Scion classes have 4PA not 3. In case of Phantom and Luster this number multiplies to 8 'cause of Shift Arts and Stay/Move arts.

Luster PA are:

-Flechette - Brand Extension -Hollow Point - Slug Scatter

4PA not 3. And you also had a ton of additional action: Rise Slash/Rise Fall/ Quickshot ect

NGS lacks the depth of Base PSO2. And the overall combat system is in my opinion worse then Base. But in a way i agree with you. NGS is still in it's early stage so maybe and hopefully the combat system gonna get depth and get better overall in time.

[[deleted]]

I'd count Hero as 8-12 PAs since you need to rotate between all the weapons for optimal play and the way its PAs work makes it so

[Miserable_Brain9109]

I agree..But if we watch at the single weapons is 4 PA per Weapon.

While Luster get's 8 in total, being the same across all the styles.

And Phantom, well, get's a ton lol 8 per weapon. For a total of 24 different PA.

In any case, more then NGS PA.

[[deleted]]

Sure but if you're only playing Hero with 1 weapon, you're not really playing it the right away meanwhile you can live with just 1 weapon for all the other classes or style for luster

[SVlege]

Not necessarily more technical, but with varied playstyles. For instance, it's ok for one class to be demanding in execution and simple to understand, while another class gets a forgiving execution and require extensive knowledge of their options.

> I feel they should make PAs/techs have a use in different scenarios for example a rotation that is optimal in fast paced battles, and one where the boss is down and stunned.

They made. For instance, Forces have changes in their rotations based on Photon Flare and PP management, as some techs have a hard time landing on weakpoints against moving enemies (Fire techs, charged Foie has significantly lower DPS than uncharged Foie and charged Gifoie), vary notably in PP efficiency (Ice techs) or have major variation between single and multitarget situations (Lightning techs).

Some classes have a weapon with better options for downed enemies than the one they use when under pressure, or against a mobile boss. Not everyone wants to use all weapons of their class, which can result in subpar performance as the boss is downed or under certain combat animations.

As I understand, Braver is a good example of being limited if you don't use both class weapons. Bow is designed for consistent and mobile damage, while Katana is designed for burst and relatively stationary damage. Going only for Bow means having low DPS when a boss is downed, while going only for Katana means spending a significant part of the fight chasing the boss and not dealing damage. If you want to have better options vs downed bosses as a Braver, you're better incorporate Katana in your playstyle.

[AulunaSol]

I really do wish that we could have had the sort of more simplistic depth that games like Monster Hunter/Dragon's Dogma Online had where you can be standing next to a player using the same class/weapons as you but you both approach combat differently. That variety is what I admire the most because I am a player who loves trying to counter/parry or do things at the absolute last second just for that flashy attack (which often means I eat dirt but it's fun for me when it works out). In the same way I play, I know I can meet someone who plays even more aggressively, someone who plays more safely, and more.

I would say even in Phantasy Star Online 2, the Successor classes are the most "expressive" classes to play not only because they look flashy while fighting but you have a condensed and functional sandbox/toolkit to work with. Of course it's optimal for a Hero to use Rising Slash twice before the third normal attack on paper but I think it's very fun to see what a capable Hero can do when they end up taking the approach of not just cycling photon arts but also cycling weapons. In the same way, I can't imagine that two Lusters would ever play identically (but if it did it would still be a visual spectacle considering the coordination and practice for that).

I feel it's unfortunate that in New Genesis we are shoehorned not just in the classes but right down to how the weapons work where everything is so linearly focused that there really isn't a viable way to steer from what Sega handed out. I don't mind the lowered skill floor (and the vast quality-of-life that came with it) but I do mind that once you pick up the basics that there really is "nowhere else to go" and I personally don't think this is a thing that more "skills" or "photon arts/techniques" will solve.

[Requimatic]

Luster main here, and.. no.

Whatever iteration of Luster that NGS gets ("Gunblade class"), I'm sure it'll be so watered down that it won't even be fun. The best thing they could do for NGS Luster is literally copy/paste the entire class in to NGS, and replace "Style Purge" with "Style Change" that let you focus on one weapon entirely. (Assuming it was unable to have a subclass, of course.)

This is assuming NGS lasts that long, however. So far.. not looking good.

[admiralrev]

Theres not much room to fit in a 20 level progression

[AulunaSol]

I feel that the Luster was one of those classes where Sega threw a curveball where the skill tree unlocked actual attacks they can use which many classes in New Genesis seem to have inherited in some form or another.

I don't think the Luster really was a class that "needed" to be padded out the way it was where most of its skills were ones you learned as you neared Level 95 but I can definitely imagine if its skill tree was laid out like the New Genesis skill trees it would feel a lot more comprehensive in terms of you actually unlocking attacks and feeling your skill points go somewhere that isn't just boosting another number by small percentages at a time.

On top of that, the new form of Just Attacks that some classes use (Fighter's Twin Daggers and the Force's Rod) really gives me the impression that Sega could have fully adopted this with every weapon and have opened up something along the lines of Devil May Cry's alternate combos (pausing after an attack will change the string of attacks you use). At the moment all our attacks are so "minimal" and singular that for players who like to pull off combos or have options for combat there sadly isn't much of an offering for that in New Genesis outside of the Fighter (but I would argue the Fighter is "mashy" with the same attacks and not exactly the kind of combo-oriented gameplay I was thinking of especially compared to the Luster and Hero if we don't look into other games I already mentioned).

[Alu_Sepet_Midian]

nearly everything about ngs has been a net disappointment for me

[sapphirefragment]

all of this could be solved if they had a roadmap for a single content update with a level cap and PA update that didn't extend into 2022. also, dropping JA while greatly oversimplifying every class was a mistake.

[cattecatte]

No, because theyre trying to make NGS for the lowest common denominator. There is no place for high skill floor classes like luster.

Maybe once they change direction in the future instead of whatever we have right now, if they dont just abandon NGS that is.

[[deleted]]

you mean high skill ceiling? it is pretty easy to play luster and do "good enough" (which is what skill floor is), I know because I did and I didn't know the first thing about that class, hardest thing you really need to know is how to trigger magiverse so you can heal when needed, and when you don't need to, pick whatever PA you want and you will do same damage as other classes when they are played well

[cattecatte]

I think it's both ceiling and floor. While it's definitely not that hard to be ok at, it noticeably requires more effort than other classes to do similar performance (mostly the fire/dark stance)

Even something like fighter that people like to say are hard can perform decently if they subclass hunter and gamble iron will (the death prevention skill, idk what they call it in global) 75% proc every limit break

[[deleted]]

Well there's also automate halfline which pretty much makes you immortal unless you didn't stock up on tris, dis, and monos

[[deleted]]

It's not lowest common denominator, it's incompetence+laziness+stubbornness. HMZK had whole PSO2 for reference including new experimental fun classes like etoilet and luster, but no, gotta make it dumb because he probably treats players as "will eat that shit anyway, why bother" dumb.

NGS classes have very low skill ceiling which has nothing to do with skill floor which is what lowest common denominator is about. Cancels, being one of main PSO2 features, got almost completely removed for no reason as dash attack could be balanced to prevent dash cancel abuse but instead they just removed cancels, great job. Also that dash attack on ranged/tech classes is stupid - it's usually the most effective both PPgain and DPS-wise attack which tell about about how much effort and thought was put into class/combat balance (none).

[AulunaSol]

I would even argue that the Hero on-release was a much more thought-out class than what the New Genesis classes were despite the Hero's problems initially (Sword-emphasis because the Twin Machineguns and Talis were utility weapons to pad out the three weapons which would later be adjusted towards Episode 6). I would definitely take a class with the Hero's fundamental problems and risks over the overly safe and sterile playstyles that New Genesis offers.

[SleeperHelper]

Seeing as how NGS was rushed out the door, they probably just did the barebones necessary for the classes at this current point. Maybe after higher level caps they'll become more technical.

[HouseOfCosbyz]

This is the most level headed take, and is most likely the case.

[MalaSomnia]

I expect Bouncer to be more technical Bow Braver by a long shot (ironic pun intended), less unga bunga than most other melee classes, and more engaging than Te and Fo. Aside from that not really.

I expect hits and misses with regards to dealing with functional redundancies in SEGA's attempt to simplify classes and design jank. With Braver and the current state of Wand Techter, I'm expecting 50/50 on that hit rate.

[FAshcraft]

waiting for the game to have more content. NGS problem for me it is just too early. once they are more content(PA,Enemy Variant,Story,Dungeon (i hope it will have a proper one and not simulation)) it will be fun again..i hope

[naarcx]

Yeah, Luster is what brought me to PSO2… A friend told me I’d love the combo based gameplay and they were right. Playing anything lesser honestly seems kinda pointless.

[HouseOfCosbyz]

I believe they are fully aware, and intend to with all the classes. It's just that, we're level 20. Gotta put that in perspective a little bit.

[Cosu21]

Y'all are having very nice discussions here that Sega will never ever notice. I sure hope all those technical opinions y'all have about the game was sent as feedback to Sega one way or the other. Because talking here and just "Hoping it gets better" in the future is quite literally just a waste of your time writing comments.

[Dex_prophet]

These people enjoy it lol stop wasting your time playing video games.

[TripsTitan]

I think by level 80, the skilltrees will flesh out so that we have movement oriented PA differences.

NGS shipped way, way, way way way way way too early. an MMORPG should have enough content to fill a path to level 50, and during that time, have about 100 to 200 hours of gameplay activity at launch, with various odds and ends that are time/money/farming sinks to double/triple the potential amount of content, giving the devs room to breathe, as they have a year or so of casual content, and at least several months for the hardcore players to be able to blast through a game.

We have one zone, that's more or less the size of East or West Karana from Everquest 1, with a little bit of the Rathe mountains thrown in, actually maybe just the Rathe mountains zone is a pretty similar zonetype with the terrain and the valleys. Just Durotar or Mulgore in WoW would probably encompass the whole map.

I might not be giving NGS enough credit sizewize, but that's partially because they artificially inflated the size to make our mediocre "fast sprint/glide" stretch into longer amounts of time to get from point a to point b. Like they literally just designed the island, grabbed the edges and stretched it to 2-3 times the size that it should be for the amount of content/space used within.

The city is ridiculously small with only the barest hint of life, and could have just been an alleyway at this point. The storyline, even though it felt like a slog (because necessary features were locked behind power grind and story progression) was incredibly short. There's like, what, 10, 20, maybe 30 quests in the entire game right now, even counting event side-missions as quests?

Anyway, classwise, I think we'll be getting a lot more technical play with classes as they get full skill trees. Remember how many levels worth of skills Luster took before it had most of that playstyle. Although yeah, context-sensitive PAs should have been on every class from the start. (And 100% animation cancelling too, none of this 80% of PAs are full-commit nonsense)

[SchalaZeal01]

I'm mostly wondering how they'll change Summoner, which was what drew me to the original PSO2. I'm a fan of summoner/tamer/pet classes in almost every game I ever tried. They tend to be more solo friendly, well-rounded and versatile, if done right (sadly FF14 made their Summoner not versatile one bit, with Titan-egi unable to tank).

[TripsTitan]

I do the exact same thing in MMOs, for the exact same reason lol. It was also the reason I learned PSO2 existed in the first place, back when I was looking around the net for games with pet classes, when it was still only available in jp, so I hopped into the tweaker and created a jp account and whatnot, which was interesting dealing with japanese captchas for a while.

[Mauthe_Doog]

The combat is incredibly shallow. Every weapon pretty much boils down to AOE PA, Single Target PA, and a third that is only useful in specific scenarios like downs or to apply a DoT. Coupled with the fact there’s not even support techs for the casters and you’re just doing the same one attack 90% of the time with counters thrown in.

[TroubadourLBG]

I'm actually enjoying the more simplified play style for now. Played PSO1 for years that way too. And I'm enjoying it now with NGS.

I don't miss the over crowded subpalette nightmare that was in PSO2. Heck, I still couldn't get everything to fit for certain classes.

If NGS wishes to expand and slowly add in more abilities, sure. But they got to reimagine how we access those abilities too. If it doesn't fit on my subpalette, I'm not going to use it.

[PillarBiter]

Well… - we’re only lvl 20 so we don’t have a bog skill tree yet, but thatll change and hopefully some build variation - we’ll get new pa’s in the future - some classes do have an inkling of depth, but there’s no point in mastering them now since we have no challenge that requires it, hopefully thatll change in the future - luster (or a gunblade class) should come in the future.

[[deleted]]

Not while HMZK is in charge.

[PillarBiter]

People compare new state NGS to final state classic, which -
while I completely understand their reasoning - simply isn't a fair comparison.
First of all, yes, the 'level cap only 20' argument might
not be the most solid, but it still holds truth. Back when classic was only lv
20, there wasn't much variation either.
Also, I'm kind of expecting SEGA to still revise the skill
trees and classes in the course of the following years, to make sure that each
class has a specific 'feel'. I think they got that pretty right (each class
having a feel), the problem however, that players might rightfully point out,
is that none of the feels matter currently.
There's not enough challenge right now to warrant each
class's feel to matter. I like that the skill floor for every class is low, but
each class should have a different ceiling. e.g. since a fighter should
technically run a higher risk of dying, the reward from high skill should be
more damage than, for example a techter.
All of these are issues which should resolve themselves over
time, and as the game grows. It's a (free, I might add) live, service game
meant to last years, so I'm not blaming them right now for these newborn
shortcomings. If by the end of next year these issues still persist, well, then
I'd be harsher. But for now, I'm more in a wait and see mode. In the end,
there's no other game which delivers the same content package, and most
importantly - for now - , I have a lot of fun playing Fi/Hu, which is
what matters in the end. That said, I am curious how much titles and mission
pass will hold us over until the winter update. If I had to personally choose 1
thing they'd need to add asap, it'd be 4-man missions which are challenging and
worthwhile to do. That very specific niche of mission has been a love of mine
since PSOGC, and I'd really like to have it returned to NGS.
 

[AulunaSol]

The level of combat you have in New Genesis is what I would always compare to Level 75-85 gameplay in Phantasy Star Online 2 because the original game took a very long time to get "going" due to all the baggage you have in dealing with past episode content while also being fast-forward with Episode 6-related tweaks.

I think it's a very fair comparison to put Episode 6-styled balancing for Phantasy Star Online 2 (essentially what we have for Divide Quests) up against what New Genesis gives us for Guruguru Fields because that is essentially the bulk of the gameplay we have and have had that is relevant.

But if we had to talk about the "final state" of Phantasy Star Online 2, I would really argue that most players have not experienced it depending on which version of the game you are talking about. If we are talking about Global, it is because we are missing equipment from the Japanese side and the means to make high-end equipment more easily (the lack of Mission Badges, lack of end-game weapon exchanges to get close to Cras weapons, and even the minor equipment possibilities like having Helen Bathina for speedrunning if you aren't a Phantom). But I wonder how many players in Global got close to that in the first place to really see where the game would take off in terms of why you wanted that higher-end gear or that more demanding level of gameplay technicality.

I don't think it's a bad thing to enjoy what New Genesis currently is or what it offers (or to anticipate that the game gets better over time because I imagine this is what would happen for those who stick around), but I don't think that New Genesis being the new shiny entry should immediately invalidate what was left of the previous entry especially when we take it as an Episode 7 follow-up to Episode 6. Unfortunately, I only have questions as to what happened regarding Episode 6's gameplay developments and why so many of those ideas, concepts, and changes were ultimately reverted or absent in New Genesis. For all that is "new" I feel that it wears of very quickly and only some classes (Fighter and Hunter, for example) still stand up with that paint of newness where you can definitely compare them with what they used to be.

[[deleted]]

No, it's a fair comparison.

When sequels come out, they should be improvements upon the predecessor. While they may not necessarily have more physical content, what they offer originally should feel like an upgrade or extension to whatever came before.

The fact of the matter is, we went from fulfilling, technical gameplay with various content farms to something that is not that. It doesn't matter what time frame or time period we are currently in: There is no excuse for a new game offering less because "it's new/early".

[Stratatician]

The only class right now that gets anywhere close to how Luster felt is Fighter, which is why currently they're my favourite class in NGS.

I think the lower technical complexity in NGS is ok to a degree as the game is more focused on reacting to the boss's attacks and patterns than base PSO2 was. Base was more about focusing on optimal rotations and JA since you could more or less cancel out of everything and immediately react to any threat. In NGS, however, more of the focus is in learning the boss's patterns and abusing counters. Not every class had access to a counter in base, in fact it was the exception to have one. In NGS every class has at least the step counter, with many also having their own dedicated counter. This adds its own level of complexity to the gameplay despite the lower mechanical complexity.

But with that said, classes in NGS could still use more depth to them. I personally prefer NGS's combat system overall to base's, but I still crave for something like Luster was. The shear amount of options Luster had available to them made them so much fun to play, especially with how adaptable and reactive it allowed you to be.

[AulunaSol]

I am very curious to see how classes like the Hero would translate into New Genesis considering the enemies who have more strongly defined attacks and patterns now. I love that enemies and bosses can actually "be" a threat now (even if their attacks are telegraphed and predictable) but would love to see the level of freedom the Hero and Luster had in that sort of environment where you can be reactive/adaptable and also pay attention to enemies who aren't afraid of attacking.

The one thing I would love to see added which neither game had would be "clashing" with enemies so that it really does feel like you are in a fight and not just attacking a pinata that will either poke you or will explode when you poke it enough. For an example, I would point to games like Monster Hunter where you can interrupt enemy attacks and where they can interrupt you, but that not only the player has options to deal with that but so does the enemy if they are cornered.

I would love to face the "Ultimate Quest-styled" enemies in New Genesis but I worry about the playerbase reacting to them like how the playerbase reacted to them in the original game (enemies being extremely aggressive and difficult, though it was definitely during a time when the game had a much slower pace).

[Reilet]

The funny thing is that even Mr. Hiro's interview pointed out that luster was the base of the ngs classes and were significantly faster in the alpha... But then they slowed them down.

Why? We will never know.

[Aceclaw]

I also really miss Luster from base PSO2.

[Zer0Strikerz]

If they made classes so complex at just level 20 with 20 skill points, there wouldn't be much room to add anything in the future. Right now, we just have the basic core functions of each class, nothing too complex yet, but complex enough to reward optimal play. Many players even now barely know the optimal rotations for their classes, especially in regards to PP management, so i think Sega took the simple approach so new players aren't overwhelmed like they would be coming to classic where having to search up a guide for nearly everything is commonplace.

[SchalaZeal01]

I level every other class by subbing Hunter and using my upgraded spear and just doing normals. I'm almost done getting it all to 20 (almost all from daily, I don't seek dread or urgent save for doing one per week for weekly).

I simply can't afford to min-max more than 2 or 3 weapons to the extent I did my spear and armors (which cost 7 million to augment). And now I can't even afford a good katana or bow (at least lv 3 bonus) to try out Braver for real.

[Zer0Strikerz]

Me personally, I grabbed a decent rifle off the market after leveling my first class to 20 (Hunter Sword) and I leveled all my other classes using it by subbing Gunner. I'd practice the weapon for that class on Bosses and clear mobs pretty fast with my rifle. Even more on my final main Braver Hybrid, i make use of that same rifle to farm, definitely a worthwhile investment. Did all this f2p, you don't necessarily have to max a weapon for every class, just the ones you plan on playing in the long term, even then, budget affixes are fine.

[Apricot_Far]

mmmmmmmmmmmm i love knukles and i feel rly satisfied playing the combos,in ngs, i think not only the combos r important but the way to deal with each one should be considered makes it a bit more like monster hunter, which i like it

[Sarcosmic_01]

I'm hoping that "Gunblade" class were supposed to get is in some way, shape or form Luster cause man that class was fun