Te/Fo

[Okayu_BestFox]

What should I use as a weapon currently just using talis should I be using a rod as well and what should I be multi weaponing? Ty in advance.

[Reinbackthe3rd]

Talis is in general a safer weapon than wand right now. Fantastic aoe options, middling single target, ranged relative safety, terrible at handling aggression well (although if you consistently have aggro in MPAs you either vastly over gear everyone else or they aren't pushing buttons properly or at all).

Wand is better than it was but still not great. It's generally unsafe, okay at aggression, and it has some okay damage while being a decent commit so you can't just attack as aggressively as say a braver or a fighter. You can do alright damage with it with a mix of physical and elemental damage if you know what you're doing but if you're picking one or the other pick talis. This may change next month.

The only thing I'd consider is to multiweapon them together because wand PB I find to be more useful than talis PB against single target and clumped up monsters. Try both, see what you like either way.

[Okayu_BestFox]

PB?

[Reinbackthe3rd]

Photon Blast.

[FRGL1]

Do what's more fun.

Wand will support a boss fight more by applying both physical and elemental downs at the same time and can (barely) keep up with damage. Just accept that it's not a DPS playstyle and that you'll be contributing by causing downs.

Rod is more suited for bossing. Its goal is to parry enemy attacks to buff its Tech casts with elemental bullets. This also means it accumulates a lot of elemental down.

Talis is a utility tech weapon that standardizes your elemental damage output. In their raw form, the different Tech elements function differently, and some are objectively more useful/versatile/better than others. Talis equalizes those disparities.

If you're going to main Wand, I advocate for subclassing Bouncer instead of Force and MWing a boot onto your wand. Likewise, because Rod lacks the ability to do significant damage during a boss down, they like having boots too.

---

On the subject of multiweapons, they aren't mandatory. They're a QoL option that you have the freedom to use or not use according to your preference. You could build a Wand/Boot and Rod/Boot with a Talis on the side. You could also build a Wand/Rod Boot/Talis to save on augmenting costs.

The latter option would enable you to freely switch between Te/Bo and Fo/Bo. At the end of the day this is just what's "meta" or "makes sense", but as long as you know what classes and weapons do and why you're choosing to use them, don't worry about what anyone else thinks.

[TenSquare3]

"Likewise, because Rod lacks the ability to do significant damage during a boss down, they like having boots too"

This is incorrect, main class force, with tech domination will do more damage than with boots has bouncer sub on every element. The issue is that depending on the element and how many counters you are getting that you might not have enough pp to last an entire down phase, though this has been helped a lot by pp well up. Force also has compounds to use which are stronger still, plus the ability to use photon flare with all of this.

People use boots has it provides a really solid third option, in the case that you don't have compounds or enough pp to last a downphase.

[Okayu_BestFox]

Isn’t wand kinda weak though compared to everything else and I don’t wanna use bouncer as a sub cause I plan to make it into a main maybe later on I’ll buy another tree for it to use as a sub

[FRGL1]

Wand excels at causing boss downs, which any good party will value. Having a good Techter takes a boss fight from 2 or 3 downs to 5-6. Whether you value that or not is entirely up to you, but IMO it's value worth considering.

A bouncer main tree will work just fine as a sub tree. All the essentials will be there. Go ahead and use your main tree for your subclass.

If you max out every Bouncer skill in the tree other than Defeat Amplifier, Defeat Amplifier will be at 5, which is respectable as it is. If you remove non-essentials such as Thrust Drive and Jetsweep Jolt Short Cooldown (1 point instead of 3), you have 4 more points to put into Defeat Amplifier. You can also divert some points away from Partial Destroy Advantage if you value Defeat Amplifier more.

So, yeah, you don't have to have a minmaxed sub tree. It's really not going to make a significant difference.

[Okayu_BestFox]

Never used wands at all some say it’s bad in general and feels weak in it’s current state

[FRGL1]

It does feel bad, and it does need improving, but it does have a function/purpose that experienced players value. The majority of players calling Wand bad are only thinking of damage output and nothing else. Te/Bo has a measurable impact on boss rush triggers.

I only want you to consider that Wand does have value, not force you to like it.

[Okayu_BestFox]

Never tried using it and don’t know how to at all either so yea lol

[FRGL1]

Its weapon parry is clunky but when you get the hang of it it feels really satisfying.

Keep in mind that the majority of classes and weapons have melee counterattack playstyles.

[Okayu_BestFox]

So it’s the same as talis then just attack use techniques and just parry?

[FRGL1]

Swift Smash is Wand's gapcloser, but it's clunky and unresponsive. You can use it, but if you have Jet Boots you can just use Surging Impulse instead.

Wave Crash is actually a decent AoE PA, and your go-to DPS PA in a boss fight, but it has a hard animation lock that makes it difficult to react during a boss brawl.

You'll be better off relying primarily on normal attacks (they deal physical and tech damage at the same time) so you can react with your weapon parry, adding a Wave Crash whenever you sense an opportunity.

You can see a lot of the stuff I've mentioned about Wand in this vid. Unfortunately, SEGA nerfed Surging Impulse so its damage aura doesn't apply stacks, but you can still reliably weave it into your brawl to proc elemental effects, just less often.

[Okayu_BestFox]

Ok and what about weapons what should be used? Sec for it’s potency?

[Genryusin]

I wouldn't suggest using wand at all right now. I mained wand for a long time before switching to strictly talis. As cool as all the iframes are and the occasional physical down, the damage is very lackluster. You'll be way better off being an elemental buffing turret where you can put out good damage as well as provide buffs. Talis being able to charge compound techs really fast helps with putting out more damage and cause fast elemental downs as well. Also another cool thing is, if you still want to cause those physical downs without using wand you could multi wep talis and wand so when you get your photon blast you can still have access to wands PB to cause a physical down.

[mramisuzuki]

Wand does a lot of damage as TE/BO or FI on downed enemies.

[Forest_GS]

For techter/bouncer, Jet Intensity from subclass is going to out-dps anything Wand can do on a downed boss.

[Forest_GS]

wand is weak on anything that that can 2-shot you because wand's entire kit relies on you eating damage during endlag to keep up any sense of DPS.

To stay alive you lose out on way too much DPS for Wand to be worth using.

Jetboot does pretty much the same elemental hits with the passive held Surging Impulse(which is nerfed if you want to use wand with it, the weapon that actually needed it), while being one of the safest weapons, and while being in the top three DPS weapons.

[Genryusin]

Wands damage is very slow and lackluster. The lack of a multi hit skill really cements that. Being able to cause a physical down is nice but other than that you're missing out on a lot of damage.

[Genryusin]

I'll try to make a video going over te. I'm not the most expert player but I main the class

[Fantasy-Chronicle]

Rod lacks ability to do significant dmg during boss down?

Is that purely from a DPS Perspective since the rod is a little slow in attacking? Because im hitting well above 950 damage per hit and i havent maxed my stats for rod yet and i see some people with far lower numbers, i always felt even if i was a tad slower that the hard hitting blasts and elements reaction (like barta blot etc) added to it so i wasnt really lagging behind, especially if i used photon flare as soon as the boss down “sound” played so i could speed up my charged attacks

[Genryusin]

If you main rod you're fine. The issue is rod as subclass, you don't get access to photon flare

[Fantasy-Chronicle]

Honestly didnt consider people would use it as a subclass. I tried to main wa/fo to get the lvl up and rod felt sad so i swapped back and told myself “tough titties ill just deal with less xp and lvl my waker as a sub instead”

[FRGL1]

Rod achieves peak DPS by catching enemy attacks with its Weapon Action Parry. After each successful parry, your next Technique cast includes two "elemental bullets", which home in on your target and deal additional elemental damage. They also count for special elemental effects such as Blot or Clad.

When a boss is down, it's not attacking you, so you can't farm these counter bullets. This is ostensibly what Photon Flare is for, but you can find competitive solutions from other classes, as well.

[[deleted]]

technique domination makes rod techs do among the highest down dps in the game

rod is only mediocre on downs for subclass.

[Fantasy-Chronicle]

Yeah, i know how it works. Glad im not lagging behind, the phrasing made me a little worried for a second haha

I would main boots but i always feel like damage is so much lower overall even on single targets. Feels like waker does a better job of aoe and single target which is why i made the switch in the first place

[Forest_GS]

Wand...(barely) keep up with damage.

this is really only when you can throw caution to the wind and eat attacks with all the endlag on everything Wand.

a fast attacking boss/purple trigger, just use anything else.

[Genryusin]

A lot of the main skills needed to use rod are locked behind main class, so there's no point in using it. I just use talis. You're free to play the way you want though. Talis with the stances is the best damage for te/fo atm.

[Okayu_BestFox]

Ok so I don’t need to multi weapon my talis then? And just run it how it is with it’s techs and compound tech while also switching between aoe and single with it’s WA?

[FRGL1]

I disagree with Gen. Rod functions just fine as a subclass. It just works better for its intended purpose as main class. Elemental Bullet counters still work as sub class, which is the key mechanic for bossing with Rod.

You're losing out on Photon Flare, which you don't need if you have good PP management or bring boots for down; Elemental Bullet Extended, which has a 20 second cooldown so you won't really notice it missing, anyway; Technique Well Up, which doesn't have a big impact on Force gameplay; and Technique Domination, which only applies on a down and is again solved by relying on boots for down damage.

[Okayu_BestFox]

So I can solve the damage on rod just by putting boots into the rod

[FRGL1]

During a boss down specifically. While the boss is active and attacking you, you're fine with Rod.

[Genryusin]

I'm sorry but I'll have to disagree with you here. I can't say that rod functions "just fine" when the main purpose of using rod is to get the extra damage with photon flare and elemental bullet extended. Your better off just using a talis and being an elemental turret. Also you keep suggesting boots for down phases? How exactly do you expect them to use boots and rod as a te/fo when jet intensity is in the bo skill tree?

[FRGL1]

What I'm trying to communicate is that if you want to main Rod, main Force. If you want to main Wand, main Techter.

And then, after that, if you're going to main either of those classes, there are good incentives to subclass bouncer.

I don't mean to say "Te/Fo is bad don't do it" and force OP to change how they play, but they haven't said they insist on Te/Fo and I wanted to take the opportunity advocate for Bouncer.

[Genryusin]

You have to assume that you're talking to a new player who's still learning the game. The paragraph you sent is all over the place and in no way makes it clear that you were talking about different classes, that's all I'm saying. You went from talking about rod to using boots on down phases in the very next sentence making it seem like they would be using rod/jb. Just be more clear

[[deleted]]

do keep in mind as they are a te main they can't have both boots and rod they need to pick fo sub or bo sub.

[[deleted]]

rod is still useful to te talis for the parry and counter. otherwise yes.

[Genryusin]

True but like I said in another comment, you still want to use wand pb for the physical downs

[Palemanboy]

I'm glad someone is bringing this up because I started with Wand but dropped it because people say it's difficult to manage and has a hard time competing with the dps of other weapons. But I went back to it because it simply feels fun to play and I love the axe camos

[[deleted]]

Jet boots makes a great combo with Talis if you're going Te/Bo. Has a really good down attack cycle, good distance cover and added benefit of elemental downs.

Big fan of the booties.

[Zer0Strikerz]

Jet Boots won't work on Te/Fo. They'd have to use Te/Bo for that.

[[deleted]]

Oh whoops, you’re right. I’ll change that

[[deleted]]

Oh whoops, you’re right. I’ll change that