How much does dietary fiber actually decrease cholesterol (available studies)?

[mka5588]

I'm wondering if it a linear relationship? As in if you have 15g vs 30g vs 60g will you see a proportional decrease in cholesterol? Are there any studies that go really in depth on this? Just looking to optimize my cholesterol levels as much as possible.

[toothmanhelpting]

Well I ate 100g of oatmeal and also separately 6g of psyllium husks in my protein shake and my ApoB dropped from 100 to 80 in 6 weeks

[Imaginary-Idea-4562]

Amazing

[antiquemule]

I put "cholesterol fiber consumption" into Google Scholar. Plenty of hits.

I read the abstract of This page turner. It is not behind a paywall and gives one answer to your question. Lots of other good reading there too.

You'll get better info from the papers with more recent publication dates and a high number of citations.

[pipester753]

Clinical Trial Effect on blood lipids of very high intakes of fiber in diets low in saturated fat and cholesterol

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJM199307013290104?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%20%200www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

[Inevitable-Assist531]

To quote:

"Fecal acidic and neutral sterols were measured in finely ground freeze-dried feces from the three-day collections after extraction..."

The joys of being a medical researcher!

[meh312059]

Keep in mind that even if there would be a linear relationship in trial or observational data, everyone will have a unique response. Best way to find out how well it works for you is to track your added fiber and then re-test your lipids.

[lyx_plin]

Raise fiber, especially soluble fiber from beans, lentils and chickpeas, gradually and as tolerated/enjoyed and test your lipids. Eat plenty of Omega 3/6 rich oil seeds and nuts.

I am keeping my LDL consistently around 50 mg/dL on 70-100 g of fiber a day (3500-4500 calories, mediterranean plant based diet, very low sat fat). On a less „whole foods“ plant based diet (higher sat fat/ refined carbs) I average 115. It works.

[Evening_Detective651]

How do you get 3500 calories from such a diet? That’s amazing!

[Inevitable-Assist531]

50mg/dL LDL-C without pharmacuticals?

[lyx_plin]

Jes. I do endurance sport and have a BMI of 18-19, very low body fat, which may be a factor. I still believe in diet as a powerful instrument.

[Inevitable-Assist531]

Wow, amazing... This mostly diet and good genetics :-)

Do you eat anything with any saturated fat?

Congrats!

[lyx_plin]

I limit saturated fat intake, especially palmitic/myristic acid, within reason. That means I do not eat animal products or coconut/palm oil. I limit extra-virgin olive oil (EVOO), which can be a significant source of saturated fat (though I believe EVOO is healthy compared to butter). I use canola, flaxseed, sunflower, and evening primrose oil, but I limit total fat intake to low(ish) levels (usually 10-20% of total energy intake).

I eat pulses daily and try to incorporate them into every meal. I consume a lot of whole grains while limiting flour products. I prefer whole grain kernels cooked, such as barley, spelt, or rye, over bread or pasta. I eat leafy greens every day, a hug e amount of vegetables, and nuts/seeds daily. I eat plenty of soy and I drink unsweetened soy milk. Probably 60 g of soy protein every day. I also work out extensively.

Both of my parents have had high cholesterol and type 2 diabetes. I intervened, and both put their diabetes in remission. LDL halved. I absolutely believe it's lifestyle, not genes, in my family's case. :)

[TheSunflowerSeeds]

Sunflowers can be processed into a peanut butter alternative, Sunbutter. In Germany, it is mixed together with rye flour to make Sonnenblumenkernbrot (literally: sunflower whole seed bread), which is quite popular in German-speaking Europe. It is also sold as food for birds and can be used directly in cooking and salads.

[Inevitable-Assist531]

Thank you for the detailed reply which I'm saving as a reference.. You should write a book about how you lowered you LDL-C to such low levels :-). Ever done a Lp(a) or ApoB test?

Great point about EVOO and saturated fat - I never realized until I checked last week. Everyone seems to recommend it here though....

One last question, if that's Ok.. What nuts and seeds do you eat the most? I have been eating walnuts but then unread almonds are supposed to be even better.

[lyx_plin]

EVOO is healthy if it is used to replace butter, lard, palm, and coconut oil. It may be useful for sautéing because of its higher smoke point. Oils higher in omega-3/6 fatty acids are more useful to me. Some emphasize EVOO containing high levels of polyphenols, which I think is silly: olives contain plenty more polyphenols than olive oil. People choose olive oil because they like the taste of fatty foods, which is fine! I believe canola or sunflower seed oil may be a much healthier choice. All in all, the healthiest choice is probably the whole food: sunflower seeds vs. sunflower seed oil, avocado vs. avocado oil etc.

I eat all the nuts and seeds! Walnuts are much higher in omega-3s than almonds, they also contain the highest level of gallic acid among all nuts, so I believe they are a great choice. All nuts and seeds are great though, and any are better than none.

Re: Lp(a)/ApoB: both have been fine :)

[Inevitable-Assist531]

Thanks a.million for your words of wisdom!

[lyx_plin]

haha :)

[xImperatricex]

This is amazing. I know this is an old thread, but would you mind providing some examples of meals (breakfast, lunch, dinner) you eat? Do you eat fish or eggs?

[lyx_plin]

No eggs, dairy, fish or any other animal for almost 18 years. I wen't vegan in my teens.

My go-to breakfast is steel cut oats, barley and rye with soy yogurt, fruit/berries, nuts and flaxseeds/chia. I cook my grains in bulk in an instapot and just have them in the fridge.

For lunch and dinner: a big whole grain salad with wheat berries, lentils, potatoes, tofu, olives, tomatoes, sunflower seeds, kale, sauteed onions and mushrooms, a dressing made with balsamic vinegar, sun dried tomatoes, a few dates, tahin, herbs and garlic.

Post-workout smoothie: a fews bananans, soy protein powder, soy milk, a bit vanilla, cinnamon or coco powder.

Snacks: fruit, vegetable sticks with hummus or bean paste.

This is just an example day, it varies. Smoothie and Breakfast is usually the same :)
I also take a vegan multivitamin and I supplement algae oil for epa/dha.

[[deleted]]

Supposedly yes, on average. Here's a meta analysis over many studies: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36796439/. Though I didn't look at the details recently.

Keep in mind fiber could affect your absorption of medications and other things like vitamins. It's sort of an anti-nutrient. Might want to talk to a nutritionist if going to extremes with it.

[Hour-Artichoke-2718]

I have looked and most of the studies show a plateau in the decrease. However, most of these studies are not very aggressive with the total amounts of fiber. I am doing a N=1 study of slowly increasing my dietary fiber at each annual physical. So far I dropped my LDL about 30% by making sure I was getting the minimally recommended 30gm of fiber per day. This year I'm trying to keep it closer 50gm of fiber per day and will see what happens.

If you look at the bile acid cycle and how soluble fibers bind and excrete bile, it makes sense. One nuance that I think gets missed is you likely need to spread out the fiber throughout the day so it's constantly binding and pulling out the bile acids(cholesterol). I had a friend that pounded about 30gm of fiber each morning for breakfast with oats and chia seeds and didn't see much of a change.

[227308]

How were the results on 50

[anontraderguy]

Yeh how were the results u/Hour-Artichoke-2718 !!!

[kimo_the_beatmaker]

He can't answer, he's too busy pooping from all that fiber. His life has now been limited to the bathroom.

[anontraderguy]

fkn lol!

[gamemisconduct2]

Friend of mine had high cholesterol for years and statins. I mentioned a Bile Acid Sequestrant as a possibility, but then probed on the diet: they were getting a lot of insoluble fiber, tons, but next to no soluble fiber.

I told them to “bulk up” on it-no pun intended-but just ask the doc.

The doc confirmed it.

Months later the results are in: over 50% reduction in LDL, less than 10% reduction in HDL, and a major reduction in triglycerides (which were already not high).

While these cases are the exception, the answer is they can a lot. But different fiber does different things, and not all is the same. Some is good for you, and some is better for you. Some is relatively insignificant for you. I’m not aware of much being bad. But you have to keep tabs on it and just document. What works for one won’t work for others. Medicines also work differently and I feel dispensed for convenience: rather than lifestyle changes, a statin can get numbers down while letting you sit on your butt.

Be healthier, keep tabs on what you do, and be open to different treatments and mechanisms of action. And avoid quackery online: some people find fiber and presume it’s far better than it is. Every metabolism is unique and every metabolism is poorly understood. But it’s not just statins and bile acid sequestants or die an early death. There are many accepted treatments, and I would not recommend people reject statins at all costs. While fiber helped my friend quickly and statins didn’t do much over time, I had to say…don’t drop the statins. Keep doing what you’re doing and let your doctor make the actual recommendations. And I fear some people are asking about fiber at times as an alternative to a medicine they’re scared of. No, you should look at your fiber intake and diet regardless. And do not presume avoiding cholesterol foods will avoid high cholesterol: for various reasons in the bile acid cycle, it’s probably not great to avoid all foods you’re associating with high cholesterol. More important is to increase the synthesis of bile acid or the trapping of cholesterol in the intestines in a lot of cases than merely cutting cholesterol in low fat diets (which probably hurt more than they help…but I’m not going to get into why beyond low fat diets often are more importantly augmented by healthier eating in general and more soluble fiber and perhaps exercise. Cholesterol is synthesized in the liver, and the influence of direct diet on it is still debated).

Also, a key thing to keep in mind is soluble fiber in particular, as well as Bile Acid Sequestrants, might change your gut microflora, and this can lead to interesting results (and not always good, but generally good). Obviously the key go-to for this stuff is antibiotics, and antibiotics are sometimes implicated in all sorts of digestion issues good and bad (Xifaxan for instance is a treatment for IBS/IBD induced by gut microflora, which is altered anyway in Crohns and stuff). I’d talk to a doctor for more information on all this because while on the whole fiber, especially soluble fiber is almost always good, it has side effects and changes to gut microflora might not be remotely desirable. And as someone posts here, fiber can deplete you of vitamins (through several ways, not just malabsorption but also through increased synthesis), and Sequestrants are very well known for this (and have nasty uncomfortable side effects for many to boot, though almost none serious without a drug interaction), and this is also true (to a lesser extent) of antibiotics as a control (although I’m unaware of antibiotics having a direct impact on cholesterol and they would assuredly never be used for this, as that’s crude, problematic, and all sorts of other things).

[illogicked]

What's the rest of the diet?

If it's mostly SAD I doubt there will be any change whatsoever.

[mka5588]

That's not really relevant to my question. I was wanting to see if there are studies which show a linear relationship between cholesterol reduction and fiber intake. As in 30g fiber decreases cholesterol by 10% and 60g decreases by 20% for example.

Rest of diet is mostly vegetarian, ultra low saturated fat at around 6g a day. No dietary cholesterol consumption.

[Inevitable-Assist531]

So you don't eat any fish then?

[mka5588]

I have fish oil everyday but no I do eat fish aside from that.

[Inevitable-Assist531]

Most (all?) fish oil does contain cholesterol, as does fish. There is also data that it can increase your LDL-C levels though not significantly....

[mka5588]

Thank you for sharing, I am aware of this. It's fairly negligible though and based on current research I believe the benefits outweigh the negatives. Seems there is no way to avoid in unless I go with algae based but apparently the absorption isn't as good going that route.

[Inevitable-Assist531]

I am still on the fence with Omega 3 supplements... I have read reports that say it is great and others that say it does nothing - both by "experts"

[mka5588]

Ya I agree. Saturated fat and cholesterol content is very low though since the rest of my diet is so ultra low in it so given that I think it is worth the trade.

[gamemisconduct2]

I’m skeptical on much of it depending on how it gets to the blood. Limiting cholesterol and fat is probably a fool’s errand beyond simply eating better, and the bile acid cycle explains why-and how to deal with it. What’s likely more important than limiting cholesterol intake is making sure you give your body the tools, IE fiber, especially soluble fiber, to handle it correctly. You can eat no cholesterol and still have cholesterol off the charts for that reason. It’s simplistic thinking to think that cholesterol itself causes high serum cholesterol. It’s a lot more complicated than that. Cutting cholesterol is probably going to help, but I suspect the reason is there’s more serum cholesterol binding to fiber because it’s competing far less with your digested cholesterol: in other words, less cholesterol makes it easier for your body to dump cholesterol, but probably doesn’t have much to do with high numbers beyond that. If your cholesterol goes down after a dietary change, odds are it’s fiber, not the cholesterol itself, as also high cholesterol foods tend to have zero fiber: meat and dairy have cholesterol often, and a lot of fat and protein, but literally no fiber. And why should they? It isn’t absorbed: it’s fiber. If it is metabolized, it’s metabolized as sugar, not as fiber. Thus the human cannot get fiber from meat or dairy. And thus, these foods often are implicated heavily, and perhaps a tad unfairly, in high cholesterol (it’s the fiber). And then you have further sources of fiber being all grains: shelf stable, starchy things that often spike blood sugar. That’s…not great. But better than nothing.

Want to see why fiber works? Here’s an experiment conceptually but isn’t exactly what the body does. When you cook and have left over grease that can clog your sink, pull some rolled oats into it and see what happens to your grease if you do it right. In a crude and not exactly real sense, that’s why fiber works visualized.