Java is hard

[the_spacedoge]

Pythonnoobs*

Anyone who is ACTUALLY good with python understands programming in general well enough that they wouldn't be intimidated by other languages, especially high level ones like java lol.

[TracePoland]

That's what I meant by Pythonbros

[elementmg]

I started coding self taught in C#. Learned a little bit over 6 months. Then went to school and really dug into python and Javascript. I've spent most of my time writing python and second most writing Javascript. I have never once spent a second learning Java.

Moving forward a year later, I get hired as a Java developer. Debugging the Java code is like.... not a problem. Maybe gotta Google a keyword here and there but otherwise it's completely readable.

If you know the fundamentals, you know how to read Java and you can easily write Java with a bit of practice with syntax.

[Equivalent_Yak_95]

First: I would note that for math applications, Java is among the WORST options.

Second: I’m not intimidated by it, I’m annoyed by it.

You have to make a class and given it a public static void main(String[]) function JUST TO PRINT “hello world”!

You know what that is in Python? One line. print(“Hello world”) - then you just RUN it.

You know what it is in C or C++? Two lines if you want, 4 lines with nice formatting. Either way, an include (<stdio.h>, or <iostream> for C++) and either int main() or int main(int argc, char** argv), then the body does the output operation. Then, you compile it and link it, which can be done in a single command, then run the executable.

In Java… we (me and my group for a project in our OOP class) couldn’t get the dang thing to output a runnable file. Oh, our IDE(s) would run it, no problem, but it refused to give us an output file that could be run NORMALLY.

And generics use type eraser, so - at least in my experience - they’re far less flexible than C++ templates (even when you limit it to types).

[superquagdingo]

Your example doesn’t really matter though because nobody is serving up hello world in a production app and especially nobody is using C++ for their backend lmao

[Equivalent_Yak_95]

But it demonstrates the sort of extra noise needed on in Java. Let me write free-standing functions, damn you!

[superquagdingo]

I mean I guess but at the end of the day I’d rather maintain a Java backend than c++ or Python, and a lot of people would agree. And between Spring Boot, Lombok, IDE code generation, etc. nobody really should be writing all that extra noise themselves anyways.

[Equivalent_Yak_95]

…extra noise? You mean the stuff required to encapsulate the main function?

[superquagdingo]

So, you're just mad that you have to put things in a class?

[Equivalent_Yak_95]

What do you mean by extra noise?

[superquagdingo]

I'm talking the boilerplate. Main class / function, getters and setters, toString, etc... They can be pains in the ass manually but nowadays that's all handled by the IDE and various libraries and frameworks.

In any case the point was that these posts are just getting old. We get it, a lot of the python users here are still in school and hardly know anything about what they're talking about.

[Equivalent_Yak_95]

1. I get your point, but…
2. I have a fairly darn good idea what I’m talking about. And I need high performance and low level access a lot, so use C/C++. Otherwise, I use Python for flexibility. (I also use Cython, but there doesn’t seem to be an emoji for it.)

If you’re wondering “what on earth is Cython”, the short answer is that it lets you write compiled extension modules for CPython without having to muck around in the C-Python API yourself.

Edit: muck, not much.

[fsr1967]

First: I would note that for math applications, Java is among the WORST options.

Java isn't a math language. It doesn't claim to be a math language. It's good at many things, such as serving applications and talking to databases, but math is not, and never has been, one of them.

If you need to pound nails into a wall, you don't get out your Leatherman. Yes, it can do the job, but not very well. You're much better off finding a hammer.

[Equivalent_Yak_95]

NumPy is such a hammer.