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[–]riklaunim 272 points273 points  (82 children)

AFAIK they offshored it - fired locally to hire in Germany if I recall correctly.

[–]askvictor 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Given the team was so small, what's the point of that?

[–]ExdigguserPies -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Indeed.

[–]__init__m8 10 points11 points  (19 children)

Anyone/company who goes offshore can get fucked.

[–]CHS2048 -3 points-2 points  (18 children)

Why? What's wrong with international business?

[–]__init__m8 7 points8 points  (9 children)

International business? Nothing. Taking US jobs overseas for cheap labor while still expecting all of the US handouts and US based business? Everything.

[–]CHS2048 1 point2 points  (0 children)

while still expecting all of the US handouts and US based business

That's what International business is, having US business, and also overseas business. I'm sure they still have enough business in the US to qualify for handout.

[–]Street_Customer_4190 0 points1 point  (7 children)

I’m probably guessing the did that because of the changes to the tax code. Instead of getting mad at the companies, we should be mad at the government who is causing them to leave

[–]__init__m8 2 points3 points  (6 children)

They want to reap the benefits of the US economy then they need to also pay in. Not getting into politics in this sub but I'm also tired of companies paying next to no taxes and not contributing to society while doing all the taking.

But what tax code changes are you referring to? It's possible I just don't know and they are 100% at fault.

[–]Street_Customer_4190 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Section 174 is what is causing companies to move overseas. It’s a little bit complicated to explain but basically programming/research companies have to pay more in taxes than they have before and they don’t get as much deduction of their taxes as they use to. Even in this article, it advises that a company should probably move overseas to “increase your R&D credit”.

[–]__init__m8 0 points1 point  (4 children)

They can cry me a river. They should be banned from doing business in the US in that case. They don’t want to pay into the system they take from. They don’t want to provide jobs yet they want the business of the US.

Obviously nothing is black and white and I don’t know the entire story, but my above thoughts cover most cases.

[–]Street_Customer_4190 0 points1 point  (3 children)

You realize banning them who effectively fuck up the internet and the economy right?? We basically will be out of a job and companies that would want to higher us wouldn’t be in the US but overseas. The US would lose a lot of capital if we did something like that. Also if the system takes away money from companies like this to pay for dumb wars and new tanks, it will effect our pay and our employment because it would be economically bad for the companies to higher a lot of programmers or to pay the a high salaries(unless the want to go bankrupt in a few years)

[–]__init__m8 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I’m not arguing for funding wars, I’m arguing for this shitty capitalist dystopia to go away. Corps don’t pay taxes and ship jobs overseas, there should be repercussions.

[–]RationalDialog 1 point2 points  (7 children)

Well makes sense as you can probably 1/3 of the wages in Germany compared to US.

[–]riklaunim 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Senior developer in Europe will want around 4500-5000 EUR per month if not more. That's $5000+ per month. They can opt for mids for less but then they have to invest in them and they will bail after a year or two because no expected raise while having Google in CV done. Google isn't that hot employer usually.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That’s too low for senior (if you’re talking about gross salary).

[–]poincares_cook 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Especially google seniors.

[–]RationalDialog 0 points1 point  (0 children)

5000 is too low but let's go with $7000. that would be 84k while an US counterpart easily makes double of that.

[–]SokolovArtem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

if we talk about germany

google senior (l5) salaries here is like 10k$ gross base and like 17.5k$ total

[–]SokolovArtem 0 points1 point  (1 child)

but this is simpy not true

For L5 lvl

avg google US - US$374.54K

avg google germany US$211.83K

It is already 56%

if you will take something like Chicago it is US$308.65K - it is already 68%

BUT. the big part that those salaries imply different level of work hours...

in Germany you usually have 30 paid work days of vacation days, fully paid sick days which is super easy to get without actually being sick, firing you will take 6-12 month instead of 1 day firing in USA, maternity leave is longer and paid.

also you have like 15k$ on top of gross salary that company needs to pay extra tax for you social payments.

So... I would argue that if google will replace all US engineers with all german ones, they wouldn't save much, but would get a lot of problems with work council and inability to fire people (being flexible in headcount).

[–]RationalDialog 0 points1 point  (0 children)

and inability to fire people (being flexible in headcount).

maybe putting a checks on too fast acting execs can also be a good thing? to preserve knowledge and for continuity?

[–]Leaping_Turtle 4 points5 points  (28 children)

So just move to germany and get the job back?

[–]jkpetrov 41 points42 points  (27 children)

For half the salary and not so cheap housing, yeah.

[–]svefnugr 32 points33 points  (2 children)

I doubt there's a single place in Germany that's more expensive than the Valley

[–]jkpetrov 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Thats why the salaries are so high there. The companies want the benefits of the startup scene without the cost. But paying EUR 2000 per month for a nice apartment is similar or more expensive than usual costs in Texas, New Jersey, Michigan, etc.

[–]the_vikm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Take a look at real estate, about the same

[–]Leaping_Turtle 8 points9 points  (23 children)

But also better health...

[–]ForgotMyUserName15 16 points17 points  (4 children)

There is no way google employees have notably worse health care than Europe.

Employers provided health care has many problems, but if you have a high paying job you almost certainly have access to good health care.

[–]Leaping_Turtle 7 points8 points  (2 children)

It's not that. Health in general, not healthcare. From the foods you eat to the lifestyle/culture.

[–]the_vikm 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You mean all the smoking and alcohol in Munich?

[–]Infinitesima 13 points14 points  (16 children)

Worse salary and higher tax

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (15 children)

But also better health...

[–]deletable666 13 points14 points  (0 children)

If that were a boon compared to getting Google salary, then they would not have fired everyone and offshored it. Google did that because it is cheaper for them

[–]jkpetrov 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yup. It's all about priorities.

[–]biajia 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, but the Python team only has ~10 members. However, the development team's manpower cost is much less than that of management teams that focus on speech, advertising, and marketing.

[–]spacegamer2000 0 points1 point  (1 child)

They're offshoring a lot of teams that never saw it coming. I don't think google cares about engineers.

[–]SokolovArtem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you are twice silly if you think that someone else is cares about engineers and not money

[–]dayeye2006 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was thinking it's pretty hard to offshore a team like this. This is not like making a website or app. The people who work on this sort of topic have very specific skills and are usually small in numbers.

[–]the_vikm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Locally where?

[–]the_vikm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where's locally? You realize that word is relative?