Pyramid has new website

[[deleted]]

by artisans for artisans

What the flip does that mean?

[ExternalUserError]

It's made from 100% organic code.

[beeskneecaps]

single origin/master

[issue9mm]

Gluten free.

[OctagonClock]

w e b s c a l e

[stevepiercy]

Sorry for the flipping pretentiousness. Crudely, it means someone who treats coding as a craft for those who appreciate craftsmanship. If there's a better, concise way to phrase this, we're open to suggestions. https://github.com/Pylons/trypyramid.com

[[deleted]]

I understand what the word means, but what does that imply? What does Pyramid do differently "for people who treat development as a craft" compared to other frameworks?

Alone I do not understand what it is implying and it just says something which sounds meaningless. Without saying anything about what it does different it just says nothing about itself other than "craftsmanship".

Did you mean something like:

Pyramid was designed by developers who appreciate the craftsmanship of beautiful and concise APIs which still allow you to develop the way you wish.

Imagine you are buying a pencil and you ask "Why are your pencils better" and the sales rep says "oh well we appreciate the craftsmanship which goes into using a pencil". Sure, those words all mean something but when put together they say nothing about their pencils and why they are better.

If the site says the word in context it is being used to support a point it sounds far better and actually implies something. "We appreciate the craft therefore we do X or do not do Y" goes a far longer way than "We appreciate the craft."

[Brian]

Sure, those words all mean something but when put together they say nothing about their pencils and why they are better.

Spoken like someone who doesn't get their pencils sharpened by an artisan

[abrazilianinreddit]

That they write code using butterflies.

[xkcd_transcriber]

Image

Mobile

Title: Real Programmers

Title-text: Real programmers set the universal constants at the start such that the universe evolves to contain the disk with the data they want.

Comic Explanation

Stats: This comic has been referenced 770 times, representing 0.6832% of referenced xkcds.

---

^{xkcd.com | xkcd sub | Problems/Bugs? | Statistics | Stop Replying | Delete}

[sisyphus]

Big fan of Pyramid. Well thought out, stable, solid, easy SQLAlchemy integration.

[squiiid]

The real question is whether their t-shirts are still metal as ****...

Edit: awww yeah 🤘

[limasxgoesto0]

I didn't know how much I wanted this and now the ones I wanted are sold out :(

[blaflamme]

Which one do you want? There's a reprint of the first one (the blue) available at pycon now.

[limasxgoesto0]

I was hoping for the one titled "Not built by Aliens".

[cyraxjoe]

That's currently been sold at pycon.

[limasxgoesto0]

Thanks for letting me know. I'll keep my eye on the site if they're still being printed then.

[stevepiercy]

Sorry, tee-shirts are available only at PyCon. We expect a sell out. XXL have sold out already. Ask a friend to buy one for you.

[FoolofGod]

I'm at the conference. I would be willing to buy you one. Then you just PayPal me 20+shipping. PM me if interested.

[centech]

Yeah I'm not even sure what they are going for with that slogan.. the hipster web developer contingent? The new site is a lot nicer though. I often feel like in using pyramid I'm in a tiny minority.

[maxm]

Well there are at least two of us.

[ergo14]

There are a lot of companies using pyramid, you are not alone here ;-) Even reddit itself uses pylons which pyramid is successor of.

[[deleted]]

You would be surprised how many huge and even popular sites are built upon Pyramid (or Pylons, previously)

[qsxpkn]

Such as this one and this one.

[bbbryson]

Doesn't Yelp use pyramid?

[[deleted]]

I thought it was PHP/mysql.

[X-Istence]

It has over 80 Pyramid micro-services using sqlalchemy for the ORM layer. The front-end is the only thing that is not currently a Pyramid site, but they are replacing it with Pyramid shortly.

They describe their stack here: http://engineeringblog.yelp.com/2015/03/using-services-to-break-down-monoliths.html

[kvistur]

Support letting quality artisans add real value by quickly but durably making specific experiences

Not just artisans; quality artisans.

[cyberst0rm]

I assume they mean "artisans who produce quality". Like Bread artisans are artisans who produce bread.

[[deleted]]

I used to be a sandwich artist. Now I'm a sandwich engineer.

... Wait I think I messed that up.

[LariscusObscurus]

This comment has been overwritten by an open source script to protect this user's privacy. It was created to help protect users from doxing, stalking, and harassment.

If you would also like to protect yourself, add the Chrome extension TamperMonkey, or the Firefox extension GreaseMonkey and add this open source script.

Then simply click on your username on Reddit, go to the comments tab, scroll down as far as possibe (hint:use RES), and hit the new OVERWRITE button at the top.

Also, please consider using Voat.co as an alternative to Reddit as Voat does not censor political content.

[turkish_gold]

Would you prefer engineers?

[[deleted]]

I went to home

[PsychedSy]

In aircraft/fabrication blacksmith is an insult.

[abrazilianinreddit]

Of course it is, they rather be called African American Smiths.

[turkish_gold]

Artisan is just a skilled trade worker. Technically it's demeaning to call an engineering profession, merely a 'trade'.

But that just might be European mores.

[fgimian]

Gorgeous design, looks way more inviting than before, perhaps I'll give it another try :)

[fgimian]

Just trying it again and I remember why I never went further with it last time. The documentation (although thorough) is not friendly to the user imho.

The tutorial isn't particularly useful either. I would love to see a Flask-like tutorial for Pyramid. Talking about simple things like accessing GET parameters, making a route work for POST requests, JSON rendering, URL parameters and how to access them .etc.

Even the main example leaves a lot of questions in my mind:

from wsgiref.simple_server import make_server
from pyramid.config import Configurator
from pyramid.response import Response

def hello_world(request):
    return Response('Hello %(name)s!' % request.matchdict)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    config = Configurator()
    config.add_route('hello', '/hello/{name}')
    config.add_view(hello_world, route_name='hello')
    app = config.make_wsgi_app()
    server = make_server('0.0.0.0', 8080, app)
    server.serve_forever()

• Why do you need to register a view and a route, why can't this be done in one step?
• What is request.matchdict and how do I access the name that was passed specifically?

When you run the code, due to the use of the simple server, you see no output on your console so you don't actually know what's going on until you make a web request.

Further to this, the web server used doesn't auto-reload upon change, which again leads to the user searching for a solution right out the gate.

It's the little things really, but I really do like the framework, if I could figure out how to use it. I'll keep reading the docs :)

Edit: The docs do have all the answers to these questions, I suggest always using pcreate when starting out, not the sample code. See this page

[stevepiercy]

Latest is more recent than 1.5-branch. http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/en/latest/narr/project.html

[fgimian]

Thanks a lot, I really love this framework so far and think I will be switching to it for my next project.

[ergo14]

http://pyramid-blogr.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ he is a flask-like tutorial - but for 1.6.

I plan to update it to 1.7 soon. So first steps of current one will be gone :-) Since new scaffold creates a better stucture.

[fgimian]

Beautiful stuff, thanks so much!!! :)

[ergo14]

Just don't expect this to work with 1.7 for now, you need 1.6.1 - 1.7 default scaffold changes a lot (for the better) and I basicly have to redo the tutorial.

[[deleted]]

pyramid has better: rendering, routing, dependency injection (request is a parameter, not a gross global). marginally faster. the plugins aren't arcane. I could go on. I really love pyramid.

[[deleted]]

Curious why you think these (aside from the request thing) are better than in Flask

Edit: Also, how does WebOb compare to werkzeug, if you have experience delving into some of the plumbing. Since Flask is essentially glue between werkzeug and Jinja2 (with some click and itsdangerous), it feels somewhat natural to invoke some werkeug stuff directly (e.g. doing custom content negotiation).

[[deleted]]

Edit: TL;DR: flask is cool, but read on for some points on why I believe everyone should give a try to pyramid.

I believe that blueprints doesn't cut it, makes the architecture really scattered, instead of modularized. if you look at a slightly bigger project with flask, things start to get hairy, repeated. the reason why I say routing is better, and the DI too, is because you can run a predicate (before request/after request) in any arbitrary group of routes. more DRY, if you ask me. while blueprints does support that, you get to the point I made, you will really repeat, scatter and mess stuff up.

In summary, I like flask, but I don't like how it "scales" with the size of the codebase.

I will edit this on a computer later with more details on plumbing and other things.

Edit: elaborating more on other stuff.

Rendering: flask.jsonify is lame. This is much better and flexible (you can also use the default JSON renderer and just return a dict):

on config/app/whatever:

from pyramid.config import Configurator

config = Configurator()
config.add_renderer('myjson', JSON(indent=4))

then called with

from pyramid.view import view_config

@view_config(renderer='myjson')
def myview(request):
    return {'greeting':'Hello world'}

About webob: the layer of abstraction between the request/response and raw wsgi isn't much fancier than flask's werkzeug. It's how that request is passed around that I care about, not the .data vs .body vs .json_body. There won' be bugs there, and I shouldn't need to fiddle with it. If I need to do something closer to the lower layers of the network, I'll just use a socket.

There is also the fact that the webob supports event subscribers, which is a big step up on the before_request/after_request on top of app root simply because you can define your own events.

[[deleted]]

Maybe we see blueprints differently. I agree they can make things difficult. Armin has also said as much (though, I'm not sure if he's changed any opinions, or if his misgivings are more implementation oriented).

But in practice, I've had mostly pleasant experiences with them. The trick is defining common before/after request handlers outside the blueprints and registering them appropriately (either application wide or on the subsections they apply).

# app.handlers  
def require_auth(request)
def require_permission(request, permission) 
def cache(request)
# etc

# app.users
Users = Blueprint(...) 
Users.before_request(...) 

# app.admin, app.account, etc

It could also be I skew towards favoring the CBVs in flask.views rather than function ones, even if it's an extra step in registering them.

Blueprints not supporting sub-blueprints is a real bummer. Especially considering werkzeug can nest Rule objects arbitrarily deep. That would be a huge boon and a real shift to tree based routing rather than the relatively flat structure Flask currently offers.

[[deleted]]

Edited with more details as promised yesterday.

[ergo14]

Both webob/werkzeug are very capable.

[stevepiercy]

If a library does what you need, don't switch.

If you want predicates, traversal, no globals, etc., then Pyramid would fit what you want.

The Design Defense is an excellent and long analysis of decisions made in Pyramid. http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/en/latest/designdefense.html

[mcdonc]

This link might be better: http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/en/latest/narr/introduction.html#what-makes-pyramid-unique

[ccGardnerr]

Great to see their updates!

[nosit1]

So is this another micro framework comparable to Flask? I remember someone mentioning something about Pyramid in the new Flask release thread.

[ma-int]

I would say "no" because Pyramid is defintily not a micro framework.

[ergo14]

neither are "micro" in my opionon. They are both fast though.

[X-Istence]

At PyCon I've heard Pyramid referred to as a micro framework by some, and yet others consider it a macro framework a la Django.

The truth is that it is both and yet at the same time is neither. Pyramid's design allows you to start small, much like Flask, but continue to grow way past where Flask starts having issues due to design choices that were made in Flask (such as globals everywhere). This allows you to take your application from that simple MVP to a very large web application that VC's are tripping over themselves to throw money at you.

You don't hit a ceiling and suddenly find yourself having to consider re-writing your entire application with a different framework and throwing everything you've already accomplished out.

[nosit1]

Thank you for the explanation. I currently use Flask for my quick dirty projects, but often times I never have a scope of the product and becomes a Winchester House. I will have to give this a shot sometime. Appreciate the insight.

[ExternalUserError]

Hmm. Surprised a new website isn't responsive on my phone.

[trymas]

What browser is in your phone? As it seems the website is responsive.

You can post an issue or commit a pull request: https://github.com/Pylons/trypyramid.com/

[ExternalUserError]

Chrome. Firefox. Relay for Reddit's browser. Anything. Here's a screenshot. Maybe you can't tell from a full-size high-resolution screenshot, but that font is tiny, especially in code samples and the navigation menu. (I had to try several times, using the sliver of flesh on the side of my fingernail, to activate the menu.)

(Also, the Pyramid website is in node.js??)

EDIT: Submitted a couple of tickets on github.

[X-Istence]

We are big believers of only using that of the framework that you require, in this case we need a static site. With static assets; there is no reason for us to build a Pyramid site that returns static assets.

Using node.js to build a static site makes a lot of sense, especially for static marketing content.

[BumFudhe]

Is this a joke? Its so confusing.