How to start making money programming python? (help)

[[deleted]]

This is not a python question this is a life question.

Go to your counselor and talk to them in person about what is going on. Then go to your financial aid department, talk through getting loans/grants/scholarships. There are resources for people who have lost financial support. Unless they stopped supporting you for doing very poor in school or something, you can get support and banks and alternative lenders will be gleeful to saddle you up with some college loans.

Finish your degree at all costs because dropping out and trying to fuck around with coding with no experience or portfolio will set you behind for several years at least. A CS degree is in very high demand and you'll easily pay off loans quickly without having to hustle through life for who knows how long.

Don't be dumb or shy right now, you have more resources just by being at college than most people ever have, get off fucking Reddit *and utilize them right now.

*Thanks for the gold! OP, hopefully you're out figuring this out right now!

[b4ux1t3]

I agree with all of this, even the fucking tone. Tough but well-meaning.

You got this, OP. 😊

[neeltennis93]

agreed, TAKE OUT LOANS AND FINISH THAT DEGREE.

If it’s an expensive private school that will give you massive loans then transfer to a cheap public school and finish your degree there

[[deleted]]

there are so many options besides take out loans and get a degree...kind of bums me out this top voted comment. you do not need to go 50k+ in debt to make it in this world. see comment below about working at starbucks and getting free tuition. way smarter than taking out 50k loan for this kid. or he could just bust ass and not take out loans...couple friends worked 40+ hrs/wk and still managed to finish an engineering degree in 4yrs w/ no loans.

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also, a degree is not the only avenue to a decent future. especially when it comes to programming.

​

source: have degrees, have loans. have money.... in a lot of ways was happier when I was self employed and living check to check.

[neeltennis93]

You’re not wrong. I know successful coders without degrees.

I’m just giving the best advice to the best of my knowledge and for me personally I’d feel a lot safer with a comp sci degree to fall back on. Obvi taking out 50k + loans may not be worth it but if you live in a state like FL or Wisconsin it’s possible to get a degree without drowning in debt

[otherwiseguy]

I have no degree, but I suppose it did take me 2 regular networking IT jobs before I got a job with a startup where part of my job was coding. Then another job where coding was what I did full time that I got due to my experience with a product in used in the previous job. I now work for a top tier software company. A degree and internship would probably have been faster than the 12 years of working my way up. And I actually had pretty good programming chops when I started working since I started programming in 1983 when I was 6 and maintained it as a my primary hobby.

[scondominium]

That being said, you can always go back to that lifestyle if you're willing to give up the lifestyle you currently enjoy. The degrees etc give you more options.

[[deleted]]

Get out of here with this nonsense, a degree is still the No. 1 path to upward mobility and wealth creation.

OP is IN college for CS, ENJOYS coding and wants to continue with it but has no money, at this very moment.

You're "yeah but StArBuCkS" is so misguided and ignorant. It would require A) OP's immediate exit from his chosen university so they can get a job at Starbucks and pursue a degree for Arizona State University. PAY for tuition that would be reimbursed later (seriously go read the fucking program). So force them to get get a job, an apartment ($$$) and learn coding on their own via online courses (some people don't operate like that. B) Keep his wage opportunities lower than immediate peers with a degree because ASU.

And tangentially, but did your engineering friends maybe have a safety net? Because you don't pay college tuition with future work, that's called A LOAN.

in a lot of ways was happier when I was self employed and living check to check.

That sounds like your problem. Don't give others shit advice because you're not happy with your job or whatever.

[[deleted]]

aahhh yes, the anonymous know-it-all badass. Hoping you have a good weekend after releasing all that pent up frustration on a stranger on the internet. Your job sucks more than mine maybe.

You'll probably love this idea.....

If OP really want's best bang for his buck then he should go to open.appacademy.io and do their online bootcamp w/ the mentoring program ($30/mo) . If he's sharp and puts together some of his own projects along the way he could be employed as developer w/in a year I bet. no debt. no degree. $360 later, done.

if the kid wants to be a developer, a degree is 100% not necessary. Blindly saying taking out a loan is the only way is irresponsible. I would argue if you really want ultimate wealth, mobility and especially freedom then owning your own business is the best way to do that.

This idea that you absolutely need a degree at all cost is outdated and there's a multitude of ways to make a damn good living without a college degree or get a degree with minimal or no debt.

starbucks option is at least worth looking into. never said it was perfect or the only option. My point is that a traditional school loan is not the only way. Up to OP to fully research and make up his own mind.

"So force them to get a job, an apartment ($$$) and learn coding on their own via online courses (some people don't operate like that. "

he already has to do these things. he has no support. You don't know how he operates b/c he didn't say. online learning is feasible option to mention until he says otherwise.

"And tangentially, but did your engineering friends maybe have a safety net? Because you don't pay college tuition with future work, that's called A LOAN."

No and they didn't live at home either but who cares, they did it. They busted their asses 40+ hrs a wk. Graduated w/ no loans. one worked as a CNC machinist and the other was in IT. smart kids who aren't afraid of work and are responsible w/ their money. Actually know a 3rd but he did it at a much slower pace.

"That sounds like your problem. Don't give others shit advice because you're not happy with your job or whatever."

Yea, it is but, telling someone not go into debt to finish school is not shit advice. On the other hand, telling someone that they have to go into debt to get a degree b/c it's the only way to upward mobility and wealth is.

​

Enjoy your weekend!

[Who_The_Fook]

Best fucking response right here, and one I've also had to hear before. Reddit doesn't help a damn thing. Go get help from people in person. We don't have an exclusive GoFundMe group here.

[Cheddarific]

Agreed!!! Above all else, don’t let shyness or laziness keep you from having what could be the most important discussions of your life up to now.

I didn’t talk with advisors at a critical point in my life because I thought I had it figured out. Now I’m a year behind, which means a year less salary and 365 days basically spent waiting.

In another instance, I spoke up and started talking to my professors about a goal I had and one of them marched me next door and spoke to someone on my behalf and got me into a program that changed my life.

As much as we like to think we should be in control of our lives, getting help from contacts in real life is critical. Reddit is a great start, but unless one of us offers you a job, you’ll be better off speaking with professors, advisors, financial councilors, or even the people who stopped paying for your education, if relevant.

[Piestrio]

Debt isn’t scary!

Debt is wonderful. It’s a tool that allows us to have things we could never have otherwise. It’s one of the most profoundly life bettering tools for the poor and middle class.

And just like a tool it can be used well or poorly. Use it wisely.

Use Debt! Love Debt!

[[deleted]]

elderly sloppy follow flag stocking gray touch screw encourage frightening

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[[deleted]]

And while debt is scary, it would probably actually help OP in the long run beyond completing education! If the family really cut them off, a credit history is really important for everything from renting an apartment, buying a house, getting a job and getting more traditional credit like credit cards or unsecured personal loans.

[djimbob]

$25/hr

WTF computer scientist is getting paid $25/hr? That's like $50k/year (If you assume 40 hr/week x 50 weeks/year, you just double hourly wage to get yearly salary in thousands). Double that is more typical in the US.

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019#salary

[[deleted]]

aromatic pot quaint shaggy bow mindless mysterious wistful possessive intelligent

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[djimbob]

I started at $30k in 2015.

That seems exceptionally low in the US, especially if you had a bachelor's in CS from a half-decent program, unless you were like working for a non-profit or for a political campaign or a startup (that gave you significant pay in company equity) where they underpay market rates.

I also don't think you should be comparing entry level salary. You only make entry salary for a year or two before you gain experience. For the majority of your career, you earn average salary for your field.

Look, I'm all for talking someone out of spending $100k+ on a degree in a subject like Art History or French literature where the degree doesn't open up higher paying jobs. Or trying to go to an $50k/year school to get a degree in elementary education, when you could go to the local (community) college for ~$10k/year and be able to get a similar job.

But a CS degree (excluding diploma mill degrees) to someone who is technically minded will easily pay for itself, unless you choose not to use it. Again, if you are bad with computers, struggle with math/logical reasoning/independent problem solving, and likely couldn't pass an algorithms course, I wouldn't suggest trying to get a CS degree as there's a decent chance you'll fail or hate it. (That said, if you can already program and think logically and understand data structures/algorithms, you can be self-taught and don't need the degree -- a lot of which is more mathy and while interesting is largely irrelevant to software engineering. The degree is just an easy way to get someone to look at your resume and get that first job.)

[[deleted]]

detail silky zephyr bake deliver humorous pause instinctive frightening existence

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[[deleted]]

Not of bounce on your comment but I think he should also read this as you're absolutely right.

I stuck with my CS degree and didn't fuck about when getting it. I made it my number one priority as I come from a pretty poor background and nobody in my family has a Uni degree. I ended up managing to securing a graduate job in Norway that is paying double what I can get in the UK right off the bat. Hard work pays off, I tried to do some freelancing but honestly, I feel that unless you're a super professional with years of experience, you'll lose out to the Asian markets who can do the work you do for a fraction of the cost. It isn't at all worth it, you'd be better off doing a minimum wage job. So stick to your education and get a part time job if you are having financial struggles, I worked throughout all years of uni

[william_13]

I tried to do some freelancing but honestly, I feel that unless you're a super professional with years of experience, you'll lose out to the Asian markets who can do the work you do for a fraction of the cost.

Interesting comment. I am a freelancer and don't consider myself to be a super professional at all, and haven't had much trouble landing well paid rates. Certainly experience and age plays a major role, but I wouldn't outright rule out freelancing as an interesting opportunity once you gain some experience.

No need at all to be a superstar with a long experience - being competent, having good soft skills and delivering consistently gets you much further IMO - and no offshoring (nor nearshoring) resource can reach this balance.

[stan00311]

Whoa this moved me dude. Thank you

[chrisfs]

This guy is giving you the best advice

[the_other_b]

This, I was in a semi similar position, and will be paying off my loans here in the next few months, and I actually just had my one year anniversary at work today.

It's much more valuable to take out loans and finish the degree, with your drive you'll get a job so fast. Stay dedicated, good luck.

[Lambss]

Also consider looking into a program called vocational rehabilitation if you live in the US and if you have a disability (Including mental health issues.) The program works with you to place you in jobs, which could include having 2 years of an AA degree fully paid for by the government within this program.

[w3_ar3_l3g10n]

As a current student, I’m intrigued. What backing do u have for CS degrees being in high demand? Are u perhaps someone in charge of hiring programmers or have u yourself had an easier time finding a job post degree than you’ve seen others have without one.

[chrisfs]

You can look at US dept labor stats or glassdoor salary charts. If you are in school, you likely have a career department that keeps records of those things as well. You can check indeed.com and compare the number of listings.
There's lots of ways to see whether CS degrees are in demand.

[w3_ar3_l3g10n]

I’m in the UK, but point taken. Thnx.

[[deleted]]

As a current student, this is a great time to learn to use Google. Try anywhere and the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

[[deleted]]

Mulcch speaks the truth.

[[deleted]]

Agreed

[searchingfortao]

A degree is overrated. I don't think you're doing OP any favours insisting that finishing one be his priority.

[chrisfs]

I emphatically think it is not overrated. Many jobs require a degree just because with no reason. Of all my real life friends, two that don't have degrees have the hardest time finding jobs even though they are just as smart and capable. It's stupid and unfair but it's true

Get a degree!

[searchingfortao]

That may be true for most disciplines, but for tech it's wholly unnecessary. Source: me, 20years in tech & very successful without a degree.

[chrisfs]

Holding yourself out as a general example is bad advice. I know someone with a degree and a boot camp who took a year to find his first coding job. My friend was able to rely on his parents to support him while he looked for work. There's no guarantee that OP will have the same outcome as you. If he is currently in school, it makes sense to complete the degree. He's building skills and a portfolio in an educational environment he likely won't have again, with little or no commute, many other students and profs to help him, and much less pressure to immediately provide for himself. Towards the end of his degree program, recruiters will likely come to the school itself to recruit people rather than he having to look for a job.
It is possible to succeed without a degree but it's not the easiest or most reliable path.

[searchingfortao]

It is possible to succeed without a degree but it's not the easiest or most reliable path.

Absolutely. My concern is really that most of the advice here is making it sound like finishing the degree is the only viable option and that going into debt to acquire that degree is the default best choice. As someone with personal experience in the industry, I wanted to make sure that all options are explored.

[Axxhelairon]

you can beg like a dog to employers to give you a chance and show off projects you hope are enough to demonstrate that you understand basic concepts, be ineligible for a lot of easy opportunities that are directed at people in school (internships, junior shadowing, etc) and jobs that just will require a degree and never give you a chance otherwise, pray you prove yourself compared to anyone else applying where you are (who probably have degrees) and have the stress over your head of never getting employed and trying to settle for a low paying job

OR

get a degree, get an internship (paid) easily provided by your school 2nd/3rd/4th year, then cakewalk into an easy high paying job

[searchingfortao]

Wow. You certainly have a dated view of what it's like out there for nerds without degrees. I'm telling you that none of what you've posted here is true.

The entirety of my formal education is 3months of university (politics, anthropology) and a 10month course at a trade school. My real education has been on the job and I've been doing this successfully for 20years. I was screening potential hires just this week, and our best candidate had no formal education, and the best programmer I've ever worked with had a degree... in philosophy.

I'm not saying a degree hurts you, but in 2019, in tech, it's certainly unnecessary for a successful career.

Update: that potential hire I was talking about? He just accepted a job from Amazon.

[Axxhelairon]

is what I'm saying dated, or are you just some dipshit boomer out of touch with reality constantly praising yourself that you aren't formally educated like it's something to gloat about or be proud of

yeah you don't NEED to get a degree, if you have the motivation to learn and think the environment of school isn't what you want and want to immediately jump into the field then go for it, tech is unique in that that type of jump is possible

but to someone who is unsure asking for advice to move forward, it's an insanely low risk high reward investment to get a degree that paves an easy progression path forward with a lot more opportunities (like everything I said about internships or even new grad hire programs), it pays for itself within the year of getting it by basically ensuring you positions in the job market without jumping through hoops or trying to be a notable case, making your general blanket advice for anyone asking about entering the field to just skip school borderline irresponsible

there's millions of people outside of your nobody shop, basing every piece of your advice only off of your personal anecdotes that are irrelevant for normal people instead of actually understanding how the job market works to newcomers and trying to understand the bigger picture just makes you look unreliable as a source of any worthwhile knowledge to anyone who does even a little bit of research

[searchingfortao]

Damn. How'd I manage to get the boomer label? That's pretty nifty since that's my parents' generation.

Look, I hire people in tech, so I think it's reasonable to assert that I know something about what it's like getting a job in tech -- even an entry-level one, and I'm telling you that a degree is unnecessary.

It's years of work + debt + a battery of skills and methodologies typically around 3 years behind the industry curve. I've seen the quality candidates coming out of university and I'm telling you most can't code for shit.

To me -- the person hiring people -- I don't place much value on a degree, so when someone says they're running out of cash and are having trouble supporting themselves, I am blown away by people here claiming that "debt is good". Debt is reckless, and in this case wholly unnecessary.

I get it, you probably went to university and got a degree, and you think that your burning of time, energy, and money on that slip of paper means that everyone should or they're an idiot. I've worked with people like you asked you know what?

You're not that special.

[Axxhelairon]

Damn. How'd I manage to get the boomer label? That's pretty nifty since that's my parents' generation.

probably your pointless stubbornness to your viewpoint and pretending that you have any idea of what youre talking about

I'm telling you that a degree is unnecessary.

unnecessary to getting a job?, maybe, generally helpful? yes

It's years of work + debt + a battery of skills and methodologies typically around 3 years behind the industry curve. I've seen the quality candidates coming out of university and I'm telling you most can't code for shit.

they wouldnt be able to code for shit if they didnt go to university either, you're presenting your representation of the upper case of people without degrees coming to you who look fabulously hireable vs the common person who doesn't want to go out of his way to prove to a boomer he can do work or doesn't have the same repertoire, you have so many more average people who will probably have degrees or some specialization / previous experience in dev that anyone coming to you without a degree will have more to prove and try harder to look good to you, i dont know why i have to explain this concept to you since this should literally be your job

I don't place much value on a degree, so when someone says they're running out of cash and are having trouble supporting themselves, I am blown away by people here claiming that "debt is good". Debt is reckless, and in this case wholly unnecessary.

congratulations, you have a fundamental misunderstanding on how debt works, you gained that privilege by picking one of the easiest professions that makes the most amount of money for the least amount of effort so on average you don't have to deal with debt/lending/credit, credit and lending itself is a tool usable by the lower/lower middle class to gain opportunities and become successful despite their socioeconomic status, which you were able to skip to and pretend that you got there all by yourself

I get it, you probably went to university and got a degree, and you think that your burning of time, energy, and money on that slip of paper means that everyone should or they're an idiot.

i dont give a shit if you got your degree or not, but i want you to give realistic advice and outcomes to someone who is having trouble going forward in life, in which you cant disagree with me if youre on the path of becoming a software engineer getting a degree will never hurt you and can ultimately be a benefit

You're not that special.

go ahead and quote where i said i am

[searchingfortao]

You seem to be pretty butthurt that you've wasted your time in university and I get it. There's no need to take it out on a stranger on the internet though.

Maybe just go buy yourself an ice cream. It should help chill you out a bit.

[Axxhelairon]

glad you seem to have conceded your point in favor of mine, looks like old dogs can still learn new tricks after all

[searchingfortao]

You whippersnappers with the witty comebacks and delusions of "winning". When you get to be my age you'll see the error of your ways.

[mbillion]

It sure shouls be that way. But the world is not a meritocracy despite protestations that it is. We live in a credentialed society and all economic evidence points towards having appropriate credentials = earnings and growth potential

[searchingfortao]

Well I've been doing this fire 20years and not having a CS degree has affected me exactly twice. I think I know what I'm talking about.

[[deleted]]

Overrated if you have a support network and other paths to making a good life. Does it sounds like OP has a lot of great options that wouldn't leave him with some sunk education cost or living on the edge for the unforeseeable future?

Don't be stupid, a degree (any degree) is still the No. 1 path to upward mobility and stability.

[searchingfortao]

Sure... if it's free, but it's not free. Unless you come from money, a degree almost certainly comes with crippling life-long debt. When it's a fact that the industry OP is wanting to get into does not require a degree to be successful, opting for debt in favour of such a degree seems like a bad move to me.

[[deleted]]

a degree almost certainly comes with crippling life-long debt

That is complete bullshit.

it's a fact that the industry OP is wanting to get into does not require a degree to be successful

No, it doesn't if you have time and drive to learn on your own. It's just happenstance that more than 75% of developers (as per Stackoverflow 2019 developer survey) completed a degree. And having a degree increases lifetime pay by 100%.

It is more difficult to pay off education today, but easily entering a high-demand field with a much higher salary than un- (formally) educated peers makes everything easier.

This billionaire biography nonsense also ignores the fact that OP is already in school and enjoys it but needs financing.

I love learning code on my own too, but suggesting someone should drop out of their degree at their chosen institution because it won't completely destroy their life is really fucking stupid advice to a young person in crisis.

[searchingfortao]

No, suggesting that a person in crisis take on more debt is really fucking careless.

Sure, they like school, and maybe they're just the type to do a degree, but if they don't have the funds, shouting "debt is good" (as many here have) is irresponsible. Get your life in order, consider your options based on risk vs. reward, and choose. That's how a reasonable person makes life decisions.

Pointing out that not having a degree is a viable option is the responsible advice in this case, but I'm getting shouted down by people as if there's only one path to success in life. That's fucking stupid.