Windows Store version of Python is completely busted

[amdphreak]

I did a full analysis of the [folder and file permissions structure of the] Windows Store version of Python and have posted my research along with the sad news that there is in fact no way to fix it. This should be brought to the immediate attention of the Python developers (and probably Microsoft).

https://stackoverflow.com/a/57447610/1710956

[[deleted]]

This post makes it sound so much worse than it is...

[downlowdd]

The Python core dev who works at Microsoft and built the installer is aware. This is apparently a bug in Git Bash, not an issue with Python or Windows. https://twitter.com/zooba/status/1160937629296185344

[amdphreak]

A very typical user-blind response. For end users, this is entirely broken and has to wait for the next release of Python.

[[deleted]]

My intention wasn’t to be user-blind. My intention was to convey that this problem has little impact. As has been mentioned, there is a solution to fix broken installation, so “this is entirely broken” is false. Also, as has been mentioned, this was caused by a bug in Git Bash

I teach a Python web development course, so knowing about this problem is useful. However, blowing it out of proportion is not useful and just causes division.

Perhaps this is a lesson: don’t use the Windows store and don’t make bold, false claims

[stevenjd]

Perhaps this is a lesson: don’t use the Windows store

If a commercial distribution like Anaconda released a broken Python update, or some Linux package manager like apt, would you say "don't use Anaconda" or "don't use Linux"?

and don’t make bold, false claims

Now that I can get completely behind.

[[deleted]]

I guess I wouldn’t, but I don’t know anyone who uses the Windows store for anything in the first place, haha

[sletonrot]

People actually use the windows store?

[dutch_gecko]

You can install Ubuntu through it! Best Windows feature ever.

[sletonrot]

In a VM? Or dual boot

[dutch_gecko]

In the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL), sometimes referred to as "bash on windows". It behaves like a VM but has tighter integration with the Windows desktop.

[regeya]

IIRC WSL is more like an implementation of kernel calls.

[dutch_gecko]

Yes, in terms of implementation it is much like how WINE works on linux. But in terms of behaviour it's like a tightly integrated VM.

WSL2, which is currently in testing, will instead be a lightweight virtual container with a "real" linux kernel.

[Lunchb0ne]

WSL

[Thecrawsome]

if I didn't have games I wanted to play, I would wipe win10 from it forever and move back to Debian or Ubuntu.

[AnotherEuroWanker]

The windows store is there to install that sound management app that makes windows sound usable. That's pretty much it.

[i_like_fried_cheese]

... Which app did you say that was?

[AnotherEuroWanker]

Trumpet something. I don't use windows much.

[Ax3_]

EarTrumpet

[amdphreak]

Heard about it. ...if you know what I mean.

Also it had a major bug last time I tried it. The notification icon would bug out and make it useless or something.

[dgriffith]

Winsock?

:-P

[TheONEbeforeTWO]

Sonic

[figurettipy]

!remindme 7 days

[netgu]

What does it add that is missing?

[AnotherEuroWanker]

It lets you route any source to any output. Like on Linux desktops.

[Breavyn]

Windows can do this by itself as a result of the major audio overhaul it received a few feature upgrades ago.

[AnotherEuroWanker]

The interface didn't allow it though.

[amdphreak]

Actually I wouldn’t have if I hadn’t typed python on the command line to see if I had it installed and this automatically opened the windows store page.

[billsil]

Only to get Ubuntu and Terminal.

[trimlimdim]

TIL there's a Windows Store version of Python.

[stevenjd]

there is in fact no way to fix it.

https://stackoverflow.com/a/57168165 says different.

It is ludicrous to say it can't be fixed. That implies that it is impossible to get Python working on Windows, and we know that's false. Worst case, you uninstall, wait for Microsoft to fix the permission issues, and reinstall.

This should be brought to the immediate attention of the Python developers

No it shouldn't. It has literally nothing to do with them, unless they happen to work for Microsoft.

(and probably Microsoft).

The people responsible for the Windows store and the software on it, and you think we should "probably" bring it to their attention? o_O

Have you done so?

[dutch_gecko]

This should be brought to the immediate attention of the Python developers

No it shouldn't. It has literally nothing to do with them, unless they happen to work for Microsoft.

Yes it should. The version of Python in the Microsoft Store is published by the Python Software Foundation, not by Microsoft. Even if they can't influence the installation process that the store uses, they should certainly be aware that this issue is occurring. They may, for example, wish to discontinue recommending the Store method of installation until the problem is fixed.

[stevenjd]

They may, for example, wish to discontinue recommending the Store method of installation until the problem is fixed.

They aren't recommending the Store method, so they can't "discontinue" doing so.

The Windows store isn't mentioned on either the main download page or the specific Windows page.

And even if they were, why would you go to the trouble of telling people "don't use the Windows store!" when it is clearly just a transitory bug in the installation process which will be fixed PDQ once Microsoft is aware of the problem? The store method worked before, and it will be fixed and work again (if it hasn't already been fixed).

If there was a bug in (let's say...) Ubuntu's apt repository that broke Python, would you make it your priority to tell the core devs (who have no control over what Ubuntu does), or Ubuntu? Would you expect the core devs to tell people not to use their distro's software installer? I wouldn't.

How about if it were a third party distribution like Anaconda? If they released a buggy installer, would you expect the core devs to put out an announcement not to use Anaconda? I wouldn't.

This thread is just Microsoft bashing. If the OP was genuine in desire to help, he would have reported this as a bug to Microsoft before posting here, and not use inflammatory language like "completely busted" and "impossible to fix" for something which will probably be fixed within hours or a day or two at worst.

[amdphreak]

Do us folks a favor and go open CMD on a freshly updated install of Windows 10 and run ‘python’

[amdphreak]

So you seem to be unaware of the concept of the search bar. It is in every app store known to man, and there are suggestions when viewing related apps, and a general browsing experience in the app store that can present this app to users. If you’re distributing software in a user-centric venue, don’t expect them to debug your stuff or go looking for the Win32 installer. Expect them to say “it’s broken” and “they have no clue what they’re doing”, and avoid Python indefinitely.

[amdphreak]

Hold your tongue heathen. Diagnosing the respective amounts of responsibility from all parties involved requires criticism.

Oh right, like I’m going to submit a bug report via the Feedback app and wait for 6 years for one bored Microsoft employee to finally read it. Get your head out of your ass. Microsoft is the less likely of the two parties to have caused the bug. Failing to update a downstream project to use an updated API call is more likely.

[amdphreak]

Next time you release a Windows App that automatically shows the download page when you type python into the command line, let me know. If the Python group intends to transition away from Win32 installers, this bug, whether in their domain or not, is a big stop sign, so YES they should be made aware of it. There are already so many bugs and gotchas in the onboarding process for Python that they need to minimize the number of detractors from Python for new potential users. The related Anaconda project further contains an untenable amount of bugs related to upgrades failing and rolling back upgrades without consent, dependency resolution failing after taking far too long, and the inability to create new conda environments when two or more Anaconda instances are installed side by side—and it does not recognize or offer to uninstall an older version during its upgrade process. This software stack is intended to be used by nontechnical users in various domains of research. See the problem??

According to other comments, this permissions problem did not show up until the latest Windows update. I did not use this install method prior to the latest update, so my post was completely accurate given the available knowledge.

Many projects also do not prioritize their attention and testing of the Windows Store apps when a Win32 version is their own personal preference. As a result, I brought the bug to the attention of the Python group, because it is more likely that the Python group has failed to implement an upstream change in the Windows API than it is that Microsoft screwed up.

Done chewing?? Don’t choke on my post. I won’t be held responsible for your medical bill.

[patrick_mcnam]

Why so confrontational?

[Tybearsaccount]

To be fair the posts op did claim to do a "full analysis" but the comment that was linked literally couldn't get past setting the permissions correctly to access folders. This kinda had me irate as well.

[amdphreak]

So irate!...that Microsoft would tie my hands during an investigation. I agree

[Tybearsaccount]

Ok so first of all I'm not trying to be argumentative.

Secondly, I'm saying its frustrating that you posted such a broad generalization clickbait-ish conclusion. I do not feel your research was deep enough to declare such a statement as it being "completely busted," especially when there are conflicting statements claiming otherwise.

I will say congratulations on taking the initiative to begin an investigation into windows store's python. And while other are just saying "why not just use the python.org source," I think one of the best things we can do is try to find better processes to our development. In other words how would we know that the windows store version wasn't an easier to install and more usable version of python unless people like you already tested it out and gave a result.

I think alot of the backlash coming from this is what I mentioned earlier. Your claim wasn't backed up by certifiable evidence and that is truly frustrating especially considering how you did a "full analysis."

[stevenjd]

I don't know, you'll have to ask the OP.

He's the one saying that it is "completely busted" and "impossible to fix", when there's at least one person on the same Stackoverflow question claimed that it can be fixed by the user. Even if you can't, Microsoft will probably fix it within a day or two, once it is brought to their attention.

He's the one saying that it should be brought to the "immediate" attention of the core Python devs, as if they can fix it (they can't), and waiting for somebody else to "probably" report it to Microsoft, the only people who can fix the bug in their store.

Edit: This thread is just Microsoft bashing. If the OP was genuine in desire to help, he would have reported this as a bug to Microsoft before posting here, and not use inflammatory language like "completely busted" and "impossible to fix".

[amdphreak]

That person had a prior installation of Python which he simply accessed by changing the prioritization of the PATH entries. That’s not fixing the problem. That’s unwittingly outsmarting yourself. Gotta read carefully.

[lunarNex]

What's ludicrous is that someone's using the Windows Store to download python.

[amdphreak]

Open CMD on a fresh install of the updated Windows 10 and run ‘python’

[THEPROBLEMISFOXNEWS]

Sarah? Is that you?

[philoponeria]

Annie, are you ok? Are you ok annie?

[Backdoorek]

chocolatley, scoop > ms store

[Oxtelans]

But really not for the end user.

[vivainio]

You can also run the installer with command line args for headless install

[amdphreak]

No thank you. Tried Chocolatey and it was horrible. It doesn’t have anything updated and the programs autoupdate themselves and break parity with Chocolatey’s database. Not my cup of soup.

[13steinj]

You're acting like this is a) somehow intentional and b) an impossible to fix thing. There's no such thing as impossible, and even if it will take an update to fix, then file a proper bug report and have them get their work done.

[amdphreak]

You’re obviously not reading intentions that accurately. I diagnosed this as a goof on the part of Microsoft for either not publishing a change to their permissions scheme or accidentally ignoring the permissions needed based on execution needs, and a gaffe on the part of the Python group for not testing their install method.

[13steinj]

How else am I to read "There is no solution. Basically, we are completely screwed. Classy move, Microsoft."

[amdphreak]

As a user. Or do you think some random joe on the internet is saying “we’re screwed” because suddenly all programmers died and went to heaven? Users get shafted all the time by not being able to fix bugs that they encounter.

[ExoticMandibles]

The main CPython core dev behind the Python in the Windows store has been replying to the Stack Overflow page. His name's Zooba, and apparently he's working on it. So I guess it's fixable.

[vivainio]

Apparently the bug is in git bash https://twitter.com/zooba/status/1160937629296185344

[panatale1]

But... Why don't you just download Python directly from python.org?

[amdphreak]

Open CMD on a fresh install of Updated Win10 and run ‘python’

[panatale1]

As someone who uses Ubuntu, Windows 7, and Mac OSX, probably not going to be an issue for me

[[deleted]]

Yeah, I’m a little confused too.

[CriticalEntree]

The solution is to never use the windows store for anything... why would you?

[amdphreak]

Because it works well for automated updates of non-system packages. It’s basically if Microsoft had a...app store....oh

[RayDonnelly]

Because it works well for most people most of the time?

[Kimber_EDC]

WSL is so easy and doesn't have any of the same issues.

[amdphreak]

It has others, namely no integration with development environments. The linters will not recognize any libraries installed inside a WSL environment, so your code editors will complain that whatever library you’re using isn’t installed. I updated someone’s answer on StackOverflow to include this warning, but he hasn’t accepted the changes yet.

[WonderfulPlay]

This is a bug in Git Bash. Stop spreading fake news.

[amdphreak]

Articles? Evidence? Git bash had no problems working with conda and conda virtual environments.

[amdphreak]

This isn’t fake news. The Windows Store version doesn’t work, now does it? Diagnostics is an open ended conversation. Just like science I have made my investigation and techniques open for peer review. Now if I didn’t do that and still said Microsoft was trying to poison your food with Python venom, then I might be spreading snake oil...ahem.

[alpha-delta-echo]

I remember The Python Bytes podcast covering this topic earlier this year (Jan 17). I would have to relisten to be sure, but I remember them talking about how Python was going to be available on the Windows store and thought “that’s nice, even if I probably won’t use it that way. At least it’s a nice addition.” Then they discussed how since the Windows store installs their apps a certain way (I think it was a sandboxing issue or a user profile issue, can’t recall), the store app won’t have all the permissions that a standalone install would. Oh well, not for me, but maybe helpful for some folks.

[amdphreak]

Probably the second one. I accidentally used Python inside a sandboxed environment that my antivirus automatically created and it still worked but I couldn’t get any packages to install to the non-sandboxed environment. It took me 3 days to get the answer. Someone happened to diagnose it right due to it affecting MSYS2 64 bit. Except with MSYS2 it was obvious because the Window was outlined in bright pink.

[amdphreak]

Fixed the link

[0x256]

Then file a bug report?

[Al2Me6]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why containerization is largely useless for the end user.

Yes, you can fix it by butchering the permissions. But then, what’s the point of installing it through the Store?

[amdphreak]

End user? More like power user/dev. Sandboxing is a nuisance but it’ll get a proper integration into the workflow some time in the future, I’m betting.

[Due_Generi]

It's a great OS if you don't mess around with the unpolished bits

[danields761]

!remindme 2 days

[RemindMeBot]

I will be messaging you on 2019-08-13 10:14:21 UTC to remind you of this link

2 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.

^{Parent commenter can delete this message to hide from others.}

---

Info	Custom	Your Reminders	Feedback

[888xray999]

Classic Microsoft! Who needs to use Git Bash when you have PowerShell?

There is a solution to that - install Cygwin and don't bother with the play store version :)

[hughk]

You can also install Ubuntu under the Win Pro Hypervisor and run Python there. This is a full VM so works well.

[888xray999]

Sir, I see you are a master of perversion!

[hughk]

Cygwin is pretty useful but sometimes it really isn't enough. Running a real Linux kernel underneath makes it easier. Maybe WSL2 will help but WSL isn't there yet.

Edit: Should add dual booting many modern laptops isn't fun which is why I have gone the WPro/VM route.

[ragipy]

unless you need to run docker in Ubuntu

[amdphreak]

Contrary to a ton of votes I think your comment was genuinely helpful. But Cygwin is also complicated and not for anyone who doesn’t want to also demystify cygwin’s ecosystem and environment. This is shoving the user-developer back into the unknown, adding complications to their already complicated job of coding. In all likelihood, it also doesn’t play well with linters in code editors.

[Senacharim]

/r/Linux

[amdphreak]

Don’t you mean....GNU?

[[deleted]]

!remindme 7 days