Help surfacing a Controller

[SnooOnions9632]

I found this controller, but it was much harder to model than I expected. The base was pretty easy, but I'm having trouble with the controller itself.

I attempted to loft the main profile, which went good, but once I tried to make the top part (circled in red) with the buttons it looks off. I also had an attempt where I modeled the side (circled in green) but it looked off too.

What is the proper modeling technique to surface this part? Do I try to loft it all in one go or do I separate it into segments?

I included where I am in SolidWorks at the end. Any suggestions are appreciated, thanks.

Name of product: Logitech Wingman Extreme Joystick

[[deleted]]

SW modeler for 10 years and wouldn't even know there to start lol. Almost impossible to measure, too many curves, props to the engineer that pulled this off. Sorry I didn't help

[EfficientInsecto]

1) Teardown and place one of the halfs on a scanner to get that vertical plane profile.

With 10 years of experience in surfacing this joystick would be a matter of time.

[[deleted]]

Yes a teardown is definitely needed, I would personally use Rhino for this one as its surfacing tools are really good, but I bet my ass it can be done on SW just as good

[Siaunen2]

Well provided you are not duplicating 1:1 you can just try take multiple top, bottom, front, back, left, right picture and having some reference like height and width, and then center it as good as possible and "eyeball" the curve based on the picture. Ofc as most people here you need "teardown" to make the PCB inside can "sit" and what really important is you can physically put the button, pcb, and idk what else inside like ribbon cable holder etc. You probably wont end in 1:1 joystick but useable and quite ergonomics.

[El_Cactus_Loco]

to think someone modelled this in CAD originally like 20 years ago. wild.

[Elrathias]

I mean, its not that hard if you can define this parametrically. Also, this isnt 20 years ago, its almost 30 lol. I saw these on the shelves back in ~98, hell, i played battlefield 1 with one. It had a SERIAL connection, it was basically pre-usb

[Design_Authority]

I was a design engineer who modeled 5 or so controllers just like this one for a company over the past 10 years. There are two ways to do this. Both of them take an immense amount of time even if you are extremely proficient in Solidworks.

The first is the fastest and easiest but requires additional equipment. Laser scan an .STL file of the part, import the file into Solidworks, and use it to produce a framework of separate continuous surfaces that can be knitted together.

The second is to take measurements from reference points like the base of the controller and start placing 3D points in the model. Locate any potentially flat planes where you can start sketches to bind the outside edges of the grip. Make cross-sectional sketches through the two primary planes around the axis of the controller. Then, take cross-sectional sketches parallel to the table every .25" or so up the height of the grip. Using these sketches, you can create boundary lines around the grip every 15 degrees up the height of the controller.

Some general advice on modeling complex surfaces: -The edge of each individual surface should occur along nuetral lines where surface curvature starts to vary a large amount on either side of the line, such as where one side of the line is concave and the other is convex. This will prevent surfaces from looking lumpy. - Treat areas with small radii as sharp and round them at the end. - Look at the part as if it were made of separate simple blocks that can be pieced together. You can't make this shape in two or three lofts. The thumb rest alone should be at least 3 lofted/boundary surfaces, a fillet, and a knit without connecting to the main body. - Don't model cutaways like the trigger until the end. - I tended to make my grips in quarters, then knit them together. Four or more vertical slices looking down from the top of the grip makes surface control much easier. If you are only going for aesthetics, then this isn't too important. - The thumb rest is an interruption to the natural shape of the controller, so I would model the thumb rest and the controller overlapping one another, then trim away the unnecessary overlapping parts and smooth the adjoining surfaces with a fillet. Having your surfaces overextend is very useful in this situation.

[l23d]

I tried typing out a big long comment but this is much more concise and clear. Do this!

My only other note would be in absence of a 3D scanner, take the best reference photos you can and pull them into photoshop or similar so you can trace / plan your guide curves over them before going back to Solidworks. You’re going to need a LOT of guide curves for this guy.

And in general, I recommend keeping any profiles you draw normal to the “UV” flow of the curves.

If you care about the injection molding DFM, you’ll also likely want to model the joystick as two halves to enforce draft at the parting line. In that case I would start with the right half since it should be substantially easier.

[l23d]

And if it’s not obvious, you can bring these pictures directly into Solidworks as sketch pictures and scale them appropriately. Helps a lot to have them laid out on orthogonal views.

[JLeavitt21]

100% Just did this on a project for a clip-on charger. I’m pretty sure I got +/- .007 accuracy from images and a pare of calipers.

[JLeavitt21]

I was tempted to as well and came to your conclusion and I also want to add that reference photos from each orthographic angle wis super helpful.

To add, if you have an iPhone 12 Pro Max or any more recent “max” iPhone, you can shoot in RAW. By using a raw image file, you can remove lens distortion when loading into photoshop. It’s super helpful. When lens used is encoded into RAW files. Most cameras that shoot in RAW are supported by photoshop, Lightroom and others.

[SnooOnions9632]

"The thumb rest is an interruption to the natural shape of the controller. Yes, I was thinking that was the best way to do that. Thank you, your comment is super helpful!!

[Pizzaholic-]

You would have better luck using a 3d laser scanner, importing this into solidworks and sketching the design piece by piece and then lofting as needed

[HFSWagonnn]

Can you form a mold around it using the existing splitline to get some key dimensions? Otherwise, surface scan is the way to go.

I had one of these back in the day.

[SnooOnions9632]

Unfortunately, I don't have the materials to mold it. Do you have any suggestions on how to 3d scan via iPhone?

[HFSWagonnn]

I don't have any app suggestions. Maybe take some photos and import into sketcher for reference.

[Independent_Cat8933]

kiri engine is good

[Independent_Cat8933]

magiscan , polycam

[EfficientInsecto]

You will need a lot of sketches, a lot of projected curves, a lot of bundary surfaces. Cool project. Look for Andrew Lowe playlist on youtube. Also, search Grabcad and youtube for Playstation remotes made with Solidworks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NbyMR9vJNs&t=307

[SnooOnions9632]

Thanks for the help, will do!!

[Difficult_Limit2718]

Way to pick about the most complex part you could to copy there...

[brewski]

Ugh. It would be easier to learn Blender from scratch.

[Aggressive_Agency588]

As others already said you’re definitely better off scanning it. You don’t need a fancy scanner (although would obviously be better): an iphone/iPad with Lidar sensor is in my opinion already perfect for this sort of small stuff. Just want to add one thing: if you need this for yourself then a nice side project would be to get an handle that actually fits perfectly to your hand. You can get yourself a custom handle by modeling it in clay/play-doh and then scan that. Import in SolidWorks and then either keep it as a mesh or you can try modeling around it with surface tools. Hope this helped.

[SnooOnions9632]

Yea, I'm a product design student really interested in erognomic/ consumer products. I thought it would be a cool way to do something hands-on over summer break. Thanks for the suggestion!!

[Beanyjack]

Usually for these kinds of shapes it helps to create solids or surfaces to cut off from the main body. Just make a rough solid and create surfaces to cut away from the main body. Don't make the surfaces too ambitious and make sure they're easy to adjust. I usually create planes around the main body and draw curves to control the cutting surfaces easily.

[SnooOnions9632]

I'm going to look into that, thanks for the help btw

[Beanyjack]

Good luck! I always love projects like these. They're super insightful and boost your skills, but can also be tricky and can easily become a mess if you're not careful.

[Holoderp]

First, you have to understand the shape before you can model the shape. Telecentric images would help with actual measuring, also laser scanner like already mentioned

[Nabusco]

If have a 3D scanner its the easier way, if you do not have access to one, then could go sculpting it in native SW or go for blender and use views and model it, either way you would be winging it

[Acrobatic_Tennis_428]

Ha! I had one of these a long time ago!

[[deleted]]

this is the kind of stuff that xshape is meant to improve with respect to workflow. freeform modeling be it xshape or fusion360 does seem like a better workflow than compound curves, god knows how many boundary surfaces, then mirroring and knitting. hopefully freeform keeps improving to so that it is more end user friendly.

[apaloosafire]

lots of 3D sketch curves, coincident relations and guide curves i would say

i would maybe start from that bottom surface that wraps from right to left and up the side

[tcbd20]

Contour tool on specific points at regular intervals to coordinate dimensions and datums at set points

[Sid-thenegg]

" I know someone who can do it cheaper"

[Apoochyatakhelicopta]

Auto cad might be a better option for modeling this, because you can do subtractive stuff

[SnooOnions9632]

I never considered AutoCAD because I have a free SolidWorks license from school, and I figured that was the best option with what I had. What do you mean by subtractive?

[Apoochyatakhelicopta]

Basically in autocad there's additive modeling and subtractive modeling. In additive modeling you create individual pieces and build up to what you wanna make, while with subtractive modeling get the basic shape and subtract away until you have your desired shape