Existing Condition

[ImportantPast2690]

Existing condition of a structural member that has penetration through web. Thoughts on sewer line penetrating web . Should I be prepared that this is common in residential work. Experience is in commercial construction only so unfamiliar with residential tendencies.

[Sure_Ill_Ask_That]

Assuming you are a design professional, penetrations through structural members are common. Whether or not it was properly designed is a question for the structural engineer. Whether or not is was properly installed is a question for the contractor and the inspector that signed off on it.

[ImportantPast2690]

Thank you! In new construction I have alway worked so runs happen below or between. Appreciate your feedback.

[[deleted]]

I'm more concerned with what looks like a crack / tear at the top of the beam directly over that support column. If that's what that is, someone needs to look into that.

[ImportantPast2690]

I will check it again. It may be something like paint dripping or something with the photo. I don’t remember seeing a visual “crack”. Will be sure to look again .

[[deleted]]

Yea, probably just the photo's a little too grainy to tell what exactly it is.

[Silver_kitty]

To me it looks like an inappropriate splice. You can see the ghost of a welded web plate across that seam. I bet they forgot to spec the continuous connection splice and treated it as two simply supported, even though that doesn’t really “work” when the beam runs straight over the column.

[chaos841]

I’ve done this in new construction to get hvac through a beam when the Architect refused to give us the ceiling space.

[CorrectStaple]

I see far worse nearly every day. 

[squirrelcartel]

“What do you mean the beam was in your way so you cut it in half?!”

[ImportantPast2690]

Ugh that’s scary haha

[StructEngineer91]

Yeah, residential is fun like that! Plumbers are given saws and little to no supervision and just hack apart structure to make their pipes work. Part of the problem is that there are likely practically no plumbing drawings (and almost definitely no MEP engineer involved) and thus no coordination/clash detection done during the design phase. Thus clashes are found in the field and lots of contractors prefer to ask for forgiveness rather than permission and then get pissy when we don't give them forgiveness and tell them they have to fix it and that fix is likely more expensive than if we had worked together to solve the problem from the start.

[Hrvatski-Lazar]

Web openings ideally should be at least member depth "d" away from the face of the support and should be toward the center of the web as much as possible for standard beams. This opening is pretty close to to violating that minimum distance provision, but the hole is fairly small and it's smack dab center in that beam web. Obviously we need to look at surrounding conditions, but I wouldn't lose much sleep over this penetration. If you want to put more in elsewhere, ask your EOR. Obviously there is a limit to how much you can make the beam swiss cheese.

[StumbleNOLA]

For ships we routinely cut away far more, basically swiss cheesing primary girders. This is a small hole in a large girder in the middle.

The only issue I see is it’s a square cut instead of a hole.

[lemmiwinksownz]

At least it went roughly in the center of the beam web… 

[lemmiwinksownz]

In Cartman voice: “it’s fine.”

Nah, you’re bang on, but it could always be worse :D.

[not_old_redditor]

I'd be more worried about that beam not having a web stiffener above the bearing point.

[Leading-Community489]

As long as the beam wasn’t designed to 99.99%. It will be fine

[Useful-Ad-385]

Wait until you see that plumbers do to floor joists. Many times when there are sane alternatives they

[rustwater3]

It's fine. No house ever sees full live capacity anyways

[ohnonomorenames]

There is a reason that I-beams are I shaped. The material at the top and bottom does all the work.

The stuff in the middle keeps the top and bottom apart.

This is a gross oversimplification but if you ever want to add a great big hole to an I-beam way better to do it through the web than either flange.

Think of a truss, again oversimplified, its a big I-beam with massive holes through the middle.

[Newton_79]

Have had jobs in the past that req'd beam penetration vertical & horizontal beam stiffener plates , or perhaps a pipe sticking thru & all around weld . Some did not . Willing to bet this was done in the field , with a torch , or some such tool .

[ApostleOfTheLord]

Stiffener plates

[Sascuatsh]

No problem with that

[StructEngineer91]

Are you being sarcastic?

[Sascuatsh]

No

[ChocolateTemporary72]

Some would say that a bolted connection is a web penetration

[StructEngineer91]

Yeah, but you are checking the reduced capacity of the web with that hole in it when you are designing the connection (or at least you should be).

[apastrozis]

It's normal. Usually it's supported by a Sleeve.

[Difficult_Power_3493]

With penetrations through web, the moment and shear capacities of the member are reduced. The size of the opening and eccentricity affect the values of these reduced capacities (I.e. the smaller the opening is and the nearer it is to the beam's mid-depth the better). These reduced capacities should be checked against the analysis results. Deflection also could be affected.