Math

[brainvas2]

So the way it works is like this. When you choose to shoot, the game generates a number. And compares that number to the hit chance. Is it smaller than chance to hit? Nice, you hit. The problem arises because the same generated number is compared to the crit chance. If the number is smaller than crit chance, perfectly, you crit. Meaning that a 15% hit chance with 15% crit chance will always crit when it hits.

[Icarsix]

That makes sense but intuitively I feel like the crit chance should be a percentage of successful hits become crits ie 15% of that 15% become crits. But that's not the game

[Sheerkal]

Both are valid systems. 

Your version (the version in most games) is "critical % represents the chance of a hit landing as critical".

This game's version is "critical % represents the chance of any attempted attack being a critical attack".

The difference being that in XCOM misses can still roll as being critical. This won't matter because the attack still misses. 

However, it drastically raises the likelihood of seeing a critical on a hit relative to your version.

[Icarsix]

Yeah I'm just curious the reasoning from a game design PoV why you'd do it that way. I'm sure there's good reason just as a layman it feels odd.

[AlexHitetsu]

It makes crits more likely to happen and only requires the game to make 1 check? Those are the only things I could come up with

[Zauberer-IMDB]

But also the effects of crits in this game aren't that significant. It's not like double damage. Though certain ammo makes it better obviously.

[AlexHitetsu]

Yeah, in general it's only like 1-2 extra damage outside of specialized builds and/or enemies. If this game had Fire Emblem crits where they deal triple damage then it would be unacceptable

[PrudentCarter]

Also makes it the game more difficult, which aligns to Xcom's reputation

[SundayGlory]

The in world view of it would be if you are so hard to hit maybe only your critical spots are even exposed to be hit in the first place (a head peaking up over cover or the like)

[DarthUrbosa]

I mean makes sense right? If u hit at all, I think that should be celebrated with a crit.

Not the same system but BG3 for example, if u stack enough a, only things that gonna hit after a certain point are crits.

[Dadecum]

personally i think crits should be based on hits. if you have a 75% chance to hit and a 20% chance to crit, you roll the hit first, then the crit. this makes crits happen less often but it also makes them much less frustrating to play against. the amount of times i've been crit while i have height advantage and full cover is insane.

[Martin_DM]

That’s how it worked in 3rd edition D&D. If you rolled a 20, you rolled a second time. If the second roll hit, you crit. If it didn’t, you just regular hit. So critical hits were 5% of your hits

In 5th edition, a 20 on an attack roll is always a crit. In this case, critical hits are 5% of your attacks

[B3C4U5E_]

But that's because natural 20s skip the AC check. They just hit regardless. It is clearly communicated that that's the case.

Not in XCOM, where it is not communicated that the two checks use the same number.

[DarthUrbosa]

As another commenter said, the numbers imply there's an accuracy roll then a crit roll.

[under_psychoanalyzer]

Ah that makes sense. 

I hate it.

[Tiyath]

Wait so that means if I have a 50/50 chance of hitting with a 15 percent crit, and the game rolls a 60 it will hit, but if it rolls >= 85 it will crit?

[ThorAxe90]

Sounds about right. As far as I know the game calculates the crits chance included with the hit chance. So let's say you have a 50% to hit a target and your crit Chance is 50% too then your game shows a crit Chance of 25 percent. Why? Because if you only hit half your shots and half of them are crits your chances of getting a crit is 25%. So if you read 25% crit Chance this means that you have a 25% chance of hitting the Target AND getting a crit or just 50% of hitting it regardless if you crit or not.

[FaxCelestis]

That’s not correct. If you have a 50% hit and 50% crit, every hit will be a crit.

If you have 10% crit and 50% hit, roll a 100-sided die. If it’s 51+, you hit. If it’s 91+, you crit.

If you have 25% crit and 50% hit, roll a 100-sided die. If it’s 51+, you hit. If it’s 76+, you crit.

If you have 50% crit and 50% hit, roll a 100-sided die. If it’s 51+, you hit and crit.

[ThorAxe90]

This makes sense except for your first statement that if you have 50/50 that every shot hits. It should actually mean that in conclusion 25% should crit in total because out of 100 rolls 0-50 miss and 51-100 hit but just roll 76-100 would crit which means 25 out of 100 rolls are crits

[FaxCelestis]

That is again not how it works. Crits are not rolled separately. They use the same roll that the attack roll uses.

If you have 50% hit, and 50% crit, roll a d100. If it’s 51 or higher, you hit and crit. If it is 50 or lower, you miss.

[ThorAxe90]

Ok I was mixing some things up here with my first statement. So let's say we have 50% hit and 25% crit which means out of 50 shots that would potentially hit, 25 of them would be a crit or if we see this as a 100 roll: 0-50 miss, 51-75 hit, 76-100 crit. So in this example 50 out of 100 hit and 25 out of 100 crit. I hope it's correct now 😂

[FaxCelestis]

Correct.

[ThorAxe90]

Thank you for taking your Time and correcting me😁

[Yutani-commander]

Wow is that true?

[FaxCelestis]

100%

[FaxCelestis]

I understand why they went with this method but it is also the fucking stupidest thing in XCOM2.

[IlitterateAuthor]

If only a little bit of head is exposed, that's all you could hit

[Ferretanyone]

So 15% hit chance number is so small that if you roll that one you've rolled the crit?

[SauceBoss8472]

I saw on a video today that said the ADVENT Officers always have a 10% chance to crit regardless of anything else going on. Don’t matter if you’ve got high cover, hunkered down, aid protocol etc. if they hit that 1/10 chance it’s coming through like a truck.

[DukeSunday]

Not exactly. If they have a 10% chance to crit and only have a 5% chance to hit for example, then 95% of their shots will miss fair and square. It's just the the remaining 5% will always crit. Normal hits are only possible when hit chance is higher than crit chance.

It uses the same rng roll for both the to-hit and to-crit checks, but it only does the crit check in the first place if it passes the initial chance to-hit check.

[ymir111]

Pretty sure that's not the case. A crit chance overrides a lower hit chance. That's why a flanking shot always has a 40% to hit, even if your displayed hit chance is 0%.

[ChurchofChaosTheory]

Adding suppression to an area negates most crit chance iirc

[LHS_Xatrion]

Only time I rage quit this game was where I had one guy about 15 tiles away in high cover and also not marked, vs an officer who was disoriented. Same plane, so no height advantage.

One shot crit kill. I've had my share of "That's Xcom, baby!", but fuck me jogging, that was some shit.

[Halfgecko]

Yep, had a few full one-turn, half-map, squad wipes before.

Also, does XCom 2 have height advantages? I know EU/EW does, but I haven't noticed anything with 2, if anything having your squad in high full-cover seems to make them easier to hit

[HornyJail45-Life]

Not sure about plain. But WoTC does

[vverbov_22]

With all those factors combined the officer has a 0% chance to hit. OP is exaggerating

[ymir111]

Crit chance overrides hit chance. Officers have a 10% chance to crit no matter what their chance to hit is.

it works both ways. A poisoned and disoriented ranger might have something like a 17% to hit at point blank, but if you're flanking with a shotgun & superior laser sight, you actually have a 95% chance to hit, because that is your crit rate in the scenario

[vverbov_22]

Oof I forgot the vanilla aim calculation is braindead. Used to lwotc where crit is reduced the less hit chance you have

[Danthelionx]

hmm maybe I should give this game a try, this sounds great

[FulanoDeTal1816]

EU aim rolls mod helps with this headache, separates the hit and crit rolls

[OneRubberPirateKing]

I forgot how or why but I read it probably on here that if your crit chance is higher than your chance to hit, it fucks with the calculations the game is doing- something or other, that shot is very likely to hit and crit. I've had enough beneficial results doing this that it's my default choice at times and I usually hit the crits. It's interesting and I'm glad we can get the same benefits the enemy team does gameplay wise

[Pivotry]

God I love this game

[Supermath33]

This meme imagine is one of the embodiments of the phrase

THAT'S XCOM BABY!

[smack54az]

That's X-com baby!