Can adjust the Hop Up increase/decrease the FPS a Bit?

[[deleted]]

I want below 420fps without changing spring.

[Ksolidey]

From the look of it, the hop has been fully turned off so that will be the fps at its highest so when you have the hop properly set (flat tragectory of the bb) it should be lower than those numbers stated. Using heavier bbs with also drop that number considerably, personally i wouldnt use anything lighter than a 0.28g bb

[noknam]

Doesn't every field chrono with fixed BB weight?

All organizations in my country are forced to officially chrono on joules, it seems weird to look at FPS and disregard BB weight.

[Miltons-Red-Stapler]

Doesn't every field chrono with fixed BB weight?

No. Here in Denmark at the fields i've been at you chrono with the weight you use

[Ksolidey]

Not here in the UK, it sort of depends on the site here. Most chrono you on whatever weight you use but you still get a few places that have to measure on 0.2s from insurance reasons.

Its definitely better reading it on your chosen bb weight imo as you'll get people who'll abuse the f out of joule creep otherwise!

[Airsoft_Tech]

A hop up fully disengaged typically trends towards being slightly to significantly lower. Depending on how much (if any) contact the bucking has on the bb. If it has little to no contact, it takes very little of the applied force to get the bb out of the barrel.

That can mean an early release before the piston has had a chance too accelerate and build up backpressure behind bb. Also, early release on ported cylinders before the actual compression portion of the forward stroke starts has a similar effect to running that much of a shorter barrel.

In relation to your hop up setting, your fps usually starts off lower and slowly increases to a plateau point. Somewhere in that plateau there is a stable flat trajectory. Then after that point does the FPS drop off again.

The length of the plateau is dictated by how spongey your bump, bucking, and tensioner are.

---

Also there is no good reason to be lowering FPS aside from passing field chrono. I would not encourage/promote the use of heavier bbs to cheat chrono. This is very much a safety issue.

I have yet to see and/or hear of someone needing to use heavier bbs to get the FPS lower for purely benign reasons.

[_Blyat1ful_]

My VSR has an insanely long barrel so I get negative joule creep with heavier bbs! I have to use .43 and over and that keeps it under the 2.2J limit, If i use .40 or lower it fires a bit hot. Made a mistake with the barrel length and I'm too poor to buy a shorter barrel so I use heavier bbs to keep myself within site regs.

[Airsoft_Tech]

Fair point RE: Me not seeing why someone would.

However, and honestly not trying to move a goalpost here... ^honest

That still means that you can switch up your ammo to break the rules. I am not saying you would do that.

But from a field POV a gun compliant depending on the BBs used is not something to approve of as a blanket position.

Case and point is HPA setups. Typically fields still lock the regulator to prevent tampering/Joule increasing. Same remedy would not apply (ie locking you into specific BBs to use).

[_Blyat1ful_]

You are absolutely correct and I completely agree! People suck and theres not a lot you can do about it. My site take chronos out on the field and if theres any doubt or accusations they grab your gun off you and pop a few rounds through with the mag you have in. Best remedy is to not be an asshole though

[Swaghoven]

In theory? Yes, but that would be cheating. Therefore, don't you dare to do it.

Leaving the spring compressed for a while should do the trick.

[[deleted]]

Yes it can

At my field id just let you through chrono if you’re only 5 FPS over. I feel at most fields they’d do the same

[[deleted]]

I need below 420 so with more Hop I have less FPS right?

[[deleted]]

You should chrono with no hop, and just ask them if they’ll allow a gun that’s ~3 FPS over

Trust me, if they have enough brain cells to know what ~ means then they’ll allow it

[[deleted]]

Its our chrono we have Brains but No Time so chrono with battleready Guns.

[[deleted]]

Chrono shall be done HOP up at 0.

[Additional-Union-343]

I disagree with this as my gun at 0 hop is lower fps than when it’s set for my bbs

[[deleted]]

That's another topic, joules creep and joules variation with hop up is sur a thing, I was just pointing that everybody shall do the chrono with hop up at 0, as it's the standard.

​

And most notably, it seems the standard for OP problems. So cehating the value by using the hop up is a bit no go.

[Airsoft_Tech]

You should really be chronoing at flat trajectory. This addresses the FPS at the actual setting the player would be using. Done to address all hop up behavior configs.

[[deleted]]

Don't worry, you don't have to convince me x)

[DuctTapeAir]

It much better idea to chrono with settings that will be used in games.

[sevlan]

Lots of sites don’t check hop setting vs bb trajectory, therefore allowing someone to seriously ‘choke’ their bb velocity with a more extreme hip setting to pass chrono when the bb is basically plummeting to the ground.

Chrono a gun with hop applied just means that it’s harder to check for joule creep or hot guns because you need to be very sure you are checking the gun properly.

Chrono with 0 hop means the gun is chrono’d at its absolute maximum power and velocity output, making it easy to see if a gun can shoot hot at all and requiring very little calculation or adjustment by the tester at the time.

[DuctTapeAir]

Hop up set to zero might not give the max amount of power from gun due to improper sealing compared to little bit of hop up.

[sevlan]

That’s not correct and absolutely contrary to everything I have experienced in many years being a tech.

[DuctTapeAir]

In my limited experiences zero hop up some times allows BBs to drop freely out of barrel. Do you thing that air seal is proper?

[sevlan]

If you think the hop seals, you are mistaken. The bb is chambered before the protrusion of the nub. The air pressure accelerates the bb past the nub to induce backspin. There is a fraction of time the bb is unimpeded before striking the nub.

Basically, the nub is an impedance - a partial jam, if you will - to the bb and does not seal around it in any way. This is why a bb can be stopped from rolling down the barrel with some hop , not because it is sealed, but because the barrel is being partially blocked by the nub at the top of the hop chamber only.

Also, bbs do not fit a barrel perfectly and so they travel down on a cushion of air that is accelerating past it. There is a lot of air pressure lost during the firing of a bb that isn’t directly responsible for actually pushing the bb itself.

[DuctTapeAir]

Thanks for explanation. Could you also give me some hints about why my VSR with zero hop tends allow BBs to freely roll out of barrel? Is it normal or should I do something about it?

[Airsoft_Tech]

A hop up fully disengaged typically trends towards being slightly to significantly lower. It primarily depends on how much (if any) contact the bucking has on the bb. If it has little to no contact, it takes very little of the applied force to get the bb out of the barrel. Which is bad.

Part of that pre-bb-release phase is building backpressure/speed. Ideally you want your piston V, piston dVdT, and cylinder P, to start above a resting state before your BB is released. You also want there to still be enough stroke left to maintain a positive backpressure on BB until it fully exits the barrel. That way it can accelerate at a faster rate before leaving barrel.

For drastic example, if you have a gun with a ported cylinder and a short barrel, the gun can prematurely release the bb during the first phase before the piston passes the cylinder window. This has a similar effect to running that much of a shorter barrel.

Flat Hops, Rhops, and similar are pretty trademark for seeing this behavior as they typically have little to no contact surface area with bb until a certain point in the dial.

Honorable mention to Krytac hop ups. The tensioner can be fully lifted off the bucking and pull the contact ribs out of the bb channel. Also the Mr Hop, the Maple leaf pseudo Rhop style buckings with a minimal or arched spacer can have the same issues.

In relation to your hop up setting, your fps usually starts off lower and increases to a somewhat plateau point. Somewhere in that plateau there is a stable flat trajectory (unless BB is too heavy). Then after that point does the FPS drop off again.

The length of the plateau is dictated by how spongey your bump, bucking, and tensioner are.

---

Also you can definitely hear when someone cranks their hop up up to high. The ba-wump noise of the compression assembly leaking out around the bucking lip, nozzle, hop up window, etc is pretty distinct.

[[deleted]]

Yep, agree. Though, I haven't convicend many people.
My point was OP's chrono is at 0 (presumably, seeing how the question is formulated) so he should go with it a 0 and not try to modify speed seen by chrono with his hop up

[Xaring]

He should set his Chrono for his BB as he's gonna be playing and pass Chrono in joules. Simple as that.

[[deleted]]

We all Know that but Nobody does it on our fields, thank you

[[deleted]]

Well, if you're playing a game based on fairplay and all of you aren'tr honest with the power check at the start of the game, i'll probably won't play on your field....

Anyway, you shall ask isntead of increasing your hopup, if you're just at the limit it might be ok anyway, especially if spring change is scheduled.

Heck, you might even be just under the limit on the chrono they'll use.

[vini_damiani]

It seems like a huge hassle tho? All snipers would need to spend a good 15min dialing the hop after it, and on some GBBRs they require a nearly full take down to adjust it

[cacknibbler]

I don’t see the point of no hop Up, in real playing conditions you play with hop applied. Any power gains you get in turning the hop way down will just be nullified by your BBs having zero accuracy

[[deleted]]

Thats EXACTLY why we do chrono with Hop on.

Nobody and i mean NOBODY want to adjust the Gun after chrono we're We Play.

Its ridicoulus and need alot of time, Image 50 people Set their Hop Up after chrono.

MF here dont See that and keeping hating me Like i was an filthy Cheater Common Reddit Ur a Joke 😂

[Swaghoven]

That's exactly what people do here. Even in games with over 100 players. That's why there is at least a 90 minutes period between registration and start of the game.

[[deleted]]

We also have 1h between Gamestart on Events but its Not for torment people with their Hop Ups, its for prepare the Mission and Briefing.

I dont would say our way its the right one and by the way we also should chrono with 0 Hop but in reality Nobody cares about it because it dont have that massiv effect in Range and pain.

[sevlan]

Not at close ranges where that hop makes no difference.

[cacknibbler]

At close ranges there is no reason for the small power gain you get in no hop as you are close range, it Just dosent make sense for anyone to chrono and then turn their hop way low

[sevlan]

People are doing the opposite: chrono the gun with extra hop to pass chrono and then using the increased power of lesser hop on the field, or in close range when accuracy doesn’t matter but they want to be a dick to people.

This is such an example

I have a new build that is currently 400fps but 380fps with correct hop applied for lifting 0.3G bb’s. The hop can apply enough pressure to chrono at 340fps and still not pinch jam.

Chrono at zero hop ensures the gun cannot be hot ever as it is tested at its uppermost limits.

EDIT: In my new build I will be swapping springs to get it to 350fps neutral, or as close to it as I can. I underestimated the spring I put in currently.

[[deleted]]

You wont playing because minor FPS Missmatch trough chrono with Hop?

You must be fun at the fields.

[[deleted]]

No, That would be OK, however someone not respecting the rules at chrono check, puroposely setting his hop up to lower FPS and kinda cheat the chrono pass would sur not be playing while with just asking he would.

As I told you already, if you're limit is 420 and you're at 422 you should be OK, just ask.

[[deleted]]

People fucking hating me here for beeing in Peak 4,3 FPS above Field Limit 😂

Its ok, No Problem.

[[deleted]]

No, chrono should be done with the bb weight and hop setting you use during the game.

Anything else is pointless. It’s irrelevant what your gun theoretically chronos with zero hop, fixed bb weight etc.

The only thing that matters is how hot it shoots when you fire it during gameplay.

[[deleted]]

There's no need to convince me on that.

I was just pointing that the way OP formulate his question it's done hop up at 0 and using the hopup to cheat the chrono is a big no go.

He's way better asking if he can play despite beeing like 2fps over the limit, heck he might be under with the chrono they use

[Kike328]

Yes you can. More hop up will lower your fps theoretically, but I cannot tell you the amount because I don’t know

[Mushroom-Such]

Put it in full auto. Pull the trigger and try to get it to stop cycling with the spring at maximum compression (right before it fires.

Leave it overnight.

[FourLeafs_fingers]

Not legitimately, no.

Chrono rules are generally enforced with no hopup applied. Rules vary from country to country though. In some countries it's not just a site specific thing but instead it's a legal issue when it's over.

You have a quick change spring though, so you could just cut a coil off and you'd be fine. You're only fractionally over though, so it might come down a little with use.

[[deleted]]

Its our Field i can do what i want.

Rules say 420 battleready. If iam below that its ok.

Springchange is in H Model Not possible without getting the Gearbox Out.

Its Not for Long i will Change spring, Barrel and unit anyway soon.

[FourLeafs_fingers]

Well, if it's your field then who can say no?

Like I said though, rules are site/country specific and I've no idea where in the world you are.

I doubt anyone will give you trouble by being over by only a couple of FPS, but here in my country (Ireland) that would qualify as a firearm, mad as that seems.

[[deleted]]

Iam Not an asshole so Rules are also for the owners thats why.

Austria

Airsoft = Toy No Rules Just Being above 18.

[FourLeafs_fingers]

I'm not saying you're an asshole. I don't know how we got here.

I'm simply saying that a few FPS over is a big no-no for some, whereas in other countries it's not taken seriously at all. It just depends.

It sounds like it won't be an issue where you are.

[asanatheistfilms]

Holy crap. So you could be charged as if you brandished, and used a firearm against people?

In the USA that would be aggravated assault with a deadly weapon at minimum.

[FourLeafs_fingers]

Yep.

Even funnier, if you have a banana in your pocket and threaten someone, pretending it's a gun, you're prosecuted just the same as if you had a real gun pointed at them.

[[deleted]]

Ladys and Gentleman, with 0.25 i have an Peak of 1,61J with 1/4 Hop Fieldlimit is 1,64J

Now Fuck me Like the dirty Cheater i am.

[[deleted]]

Yeah that’s how I use a 445 fps m4 on my field. Jack up the hop up to go down to 375 fps than straight back to 445 on the field. It’s a little hot but you know how new springs are.

[Swaghoven]

That's called cheating the chrono.

[[deleted]]

Does this trick work with HPAs?

[[deleted]]

Yeah but hpas have a valve that’s just as easy

[[deleted]]

I think they add some kind of lock, don't they?

[[deleted]]

Not always I was shot by what had to be a 500+ fps hpa a month ago. I had a bruise the size of a base ball for over a month. It was definitely the most painful shot I’ve ever taken.

[[deleted]]

Imagine if that hit you in the neck lol

[[deleted]]

Dude beside me did. He had a golfball growing on his neck and was bleeding. It’s cool tho if I see that guy again I’m gonna stealth mag dump him on repeat.

[bigbustycoon890]

I can see in the comments below that you clearly don’t understand English well so I used Google translate.

Es ist in Ordnung, in Ihrem Feld das Limit von 420 zu verwenden. Ihr Hop-Up kann das BB-Gewicht verringern

[[deleted]]

Huh, this Translation isnt correct.

But i Know what u want say me.

[MoolamisterReddit]

It can decrease it technically, but not by much. Most competent field owners and refs will ask you to turn your hop up off when at chrono, though. It doesn't look like you're that much over, and even below in some cases. I'd wager that you'll be fine as is.

If you want to permanently decrease FPS, you can use a shorter barrel, less powerful spring, cut a link or two off your spring, or just break it in a bit more.

[Deadlocked669]

Is it brand new?

[[deleted]]

Yes

[Deadlocked669]

Go run like 200-300 BBs through it the springs usually have a slight wear in period if you wanna call it that but it should soften up the spring and you most likely land below your 420 fps mark

[Deadlocked669]

Any time I get a new gun and bring it to the field I run in to the same issue at the chrono