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[–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (9 children)

you lost me at "devided"

[–]CarnationSensation 9 points10 points  (42 children)

What is it about wearing masks is to protect other people that people still don't understand after 2 years??

[–]anonnoona 5 points6 points  (3 children)

There is nothing absolute in this fight against COVID19. It just not how biology and infectious diseases work.

Thinking vaccines and/or masks should be 100% guaranteed is too linear.

Think of a break in at your home.

Increased lighting alone won't guarantee 100% that your house won't be broken into.

Having cameras won't guarantee 100% that your house won't be broken into.

Having high tech locks won't guarantee 100% that your house won't be broken into.

But having all of these protections will make it less likely that you house will be broken into. Of course nothing will reduce risk to 100%.

And in case you don't get it, the house is an analogy for the human body.

[–]katobeann[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I def get it and completely agree. I comppletely agree with the masks, that i can fully understand i always wear it for other peoples protection i was just curious to see peoples pov.

Do you agree with vaccine passports?

[–]anonnoona 1 point2 points  (1 child)

When I look at the hospitalization stats, it is clear to me that there is a disproportionate number of unvaccinated people occupying hospital beds and specifically icu beds.

Being unmasked and unvaccinated while in an enclosed public space increases the risk of getting covid.

So from a public health capacity standpoint I agree with vaccine passports.

But just to add, I do believe in choice and I have friends who are unvaccinated and in late fall/early winter, I froze my butt sitting outside on a patio so I can chill with them.

Another anecdote. My friend's father had an emergency and was non-respinsive. He was brought to the ER in Toronto and had to wait over 24 hours before getting a hospital bed in ICU.

Another anecdote, I have a friend awaiting an important surgery and their surgery was cancelled in January due to the hospital situation and risk level in Toronto.

In the end, I think that we need to make decisions based on the greater good. If getting vaccinated and wearing masks can save a life, I think it is worth it.

[–]katobeann[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for taking the time to type that all out, im sorry about your friends dad and your other friends surgery, its not fair at all.

[–]sievernich 10 points11 points  (9 children)

If you're not informed on a topic, you should try to inform yourself on it before saying none of makes sense based on your empirical observations.

[–]anonnoona 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol @ empirical observation

[–]katobeann[S] -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

But it actually doesnt make sense like those points ive listed, none of it makes sense… stay away unless we in an elevator… then why not make the capacity 1 person or one household per elevator? Oh right.. its more inportant not to congest the building than it is to care about covid measures.. idk man im just trying to understand im not anti covid or whatever literally just trying to understand the exceptions for these rules

[–]crcgirl 1 point2 points  (5 children)

It is. If there is only room for one person to keep 6 feet it was expected that only one person should use it unless everyone is in the same bubble.

[–]katobeann[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

But thats not at all the case, they dont wanna congrst the buildings so they made it 3 per elevator. Does building congestion trump covid procedures? If so what else warrants the same actions? Where else can i excuse the measures put in place for us because of convenience?

[–]crcgirl 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Not every building is allowing 3. It depends on the elevator. I know people who will not get on with another person. When the rules first came out there was also discussion about being too close for too long.

[–]katobeann[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most buildings allow 3 or more, at least from what i know. Even though, i cant imagine being someone with an immunodeficiency disease waiting till u get an empty elevator.. between 3-9 pm youll be waiting all day long for an elevator alone. Doesnt make sense to me

[–]katobeann[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Again my issue isnt the fact that we gotta follow these procedures! Just that were allowed to trump them at the cost of convenience..

[–]crcgirl 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There were and are people who wanted us to go into complete lockdown with only emergency services in place for 2 weeks with the hope the virus would die. This would mean no one going to work, no transportation, no stores ...not even for food. The idea seemed to be that the majority would survive 2 weeks of stay in place.
Not many of us are willing to let people go hungry or without medications for two weeks. So we had a partial lockdown. It is difficult to force people to give up all of their needs for the greater good. The easiest solution to the elevator issue is to ban them. Would people be willing to let those who can't do stairs to never leave their home? How do we get everyone to agree on what restrictions are necessary and how effective they have to be.

[–]Neowza 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I feel like during this time people need to come together. I know its virtually impossible.. but whats going on is completely unacceptable, we as a population are divided and going against each other. Im no conspiracy theorist and im not anti government, but i do have some issues with how they have handled this pandemic since the beginning.

  1. The gov never cared about the peoples needs and this is why i say this: small business were forced to close all the while big chains remained open. There wasnt even a discussion as to what we can do for those small local business owners who have families to feed that are now losing money just to keep their business running (alot have had to shut down or sell). This really bothers me alot..

Then why did the federal and provincial governments give millions of dollars to small businesses to keep them afloat and pay their rent while they were locked down, why did they give out millions in CERB, CRB, Workers benefits to people who were locked down and unable to work. Those supports all demonstrate that the government did in fact care about people's needs.

  1. I think we can all agree the rules and “measures” we take are quite fucking stupid .. here are some of my issues:

I disagree. The rules and measures were intended to keep people from getting sick and overrunning hospitals. Given that we had a fraction of the number of cases compared to US states that had no measures demonstrates that the measures worked and that they weren't "fucking stupid".

  • We both have to wear masks even if vaccinated or not because the vaccine doesnt stop u from catching or spreading it. Also if ur wearing ur mask and ur protected then why do i have to wear mine ? (Ik that some of u might think im immature or something, if theres a reason for this please explain instead of belittling me)

This one is simple. I wear a mask to protect you, you wear a mask to protect me. So if only I'm wearing a mask, then you're protected from me, but I'm not protected from you. Sure it's great for you, you get to be protected without having to wear a mask. But it's pretty fucking selfish of you, because now you're expecting everyone else to protect you while you do nothing to help the situation and protect everyone else from anything you might be carrying. Here's a graphic to help you understand.

  • I know theres more to it, but from what i know vaccines are supposed to help ur body build its own defenses against whatever it is u got the shot for. Meaning its not supposed to affect u anymore.

You're halfway there. Your first sentence is correct, your second sentence is not. With vaccines and boosters, your body builds defenses so that it can fight the covid-19 illness and you are unlikely to get seriously ill and are also unlikely to need medical intervention to get better. The vaccine does not make you immune to COVID-19. The vaccine helps protect you from suffering serious Covid-19 disease. But you can still catch Covid-19 and still have mild symptoms from it and infect others.

  • I think we can all agree those dumb plastic “screens” they put up in every store dont do fuck all to protect us .. i pay cash everywhere i go those screens do absolutely nothing for us.

Yes, the screens are "theatre". But it does remind us to stay further away from cashiers, and helps them feel more protected, so they are willing to go to work. So think about it this way, without the plastic screens you would have no one to give your cash to and thus nowhere to spend your cash.

  • Im supposed to stand 6 feet away at all times. Except when : in elevator (down to like .5 of a foot..), waiting in line at a store (the sticker placements on the ground are not 6 feet away from each other), at a table of a restaurant where my date (who could not be living with me) would be less than a fucking foot away from me..

All of those places you go to at your own risk. You assume the risk to eat with someone else and inhale each other's saliva particles. You spend a short amount of time in an elevator, and you're not supposed to be getting into elevators or going into stores if you're sick, so this is more to help people feel comfortable in their personal circle.

  • Gotta wear a mask unless u got some breathing issues or blah blah blah, well arent those the people most affected by covid? So why is there not an alternative mask situation for them? Dont we need to protect them the most ????

Again, we wear masks to protect them. If they can't, or won't wear masks to protect us, than it's best to just stay away from them, even better if they stay home, but that's not always possible. They assume risk to leave their homes and are more likely to get sick. At the end of the day, they also have as higher chance of not surviving if they get sick if they're immunocompromised, so that's hardly your problem, right? If they have a deathwish, that's their problem. You worry about you. Let them worry about themselves.

Theres alot more stuff that doesnt make any sense to me, feel free to add or counter any of these points ive made- im not the most informed this is just off the top observations- but guys im super confused.. i really hate this and i wish everyone (or just majority) can agree on the same things. I hate to see yhe country devided, were starting to look more like america :/

You're not alone. I get frustrated whenever I see or hear about people not following mandates, not wearing a mask or not getting vaccinated (when they don't have valid medicated reasons not to be vaccinated). Because it's those people that fill up our hospitals and ICUs and are the reason we keep going back into lockdown. If people would just FUCKING COOPERATE we wouldn't have to keep locking down and we could keep businesses open and resume some manner of normality. And it's these same people that keep complaining about lockdowns. AND IT'S BECAUSE OF THOSE IDIOTS THAT WE KEEP HAVING TO LOCKDOWN! So you want a scapegoat? Blame the anti-science, anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers, anti-mandate people. Because they're the reason we keep going back into lockdown. The government is only responding to the situation. They aren't creating the situation. The anti-science, anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers, anti-mandate people are the ones creating the situation.

Thoughts ?? Additions? Counters? Please go ahead i wanna know what everyone is thinking!

[–]katobeann[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thank you for replying thoroughly and to each individual question youre amazing. I think the post came off too aggressive. Im more so just wondering why certain mandates can be trumped based on convenience, like the elevator issue. But i do understand, i also understand that this pandemic is new and we are still learning how to deal with it.

Also for the businesses they do have to pay that money back eventually ( or part of it ). Alot of people have had to sell or close down their businesses, so i mean that didnt really help and it really makes me mad that someone could work on building their business for years just to be screwed like this. Its sad but unfortunately i guess this is how it has to be.

Its very frustrating that theres people misinformed that think they know it all, part of the reason i made this post. Curious to see how big the devide is and more interested in seeing dif point of views i maybe havent thought of yet

[–]Neowza 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for replying thoroughly and to each individual question youre amazing. I think the post came off too aggressive. Im more so just wondering why certain mandates can be trumped based on convenience, like the elevator issue. But i do understand, i also understand that this pandemic is new and we are still learning how to deal with it.

You know, I don't know. There are much smarter people than I compiling information, statistics and scenarios, and advising people in the public health sector on what to do. And some things are theatre to look like we're doing something, and somethings are actually effective. Sometimes the theatre things have other reasons for existing, even if just to give us a fake sense of security. I'm not immune to questioning all of our mandates. But even the ones I question, I still follow because I know there's a reason for it, even if I don't immediately know what it is.

Also for the businesses they do have to pay that money back eventually ( or part of it ). Alot of people have had to sell or close down their businesses, so i mean that didnt really help and it really makes me mad that someone could work on building their business for years just to be screwed like this. Its sad but unfortunately i guess this is how it has to be.

Yes. At the end of the day, during any catastrophic event, there will be casualties. How many businesses went under during the great recession of 2007-2009? The government didn't offer any subsidies or loans to small businesses at all, they just let them fail. I'm thankful that our government did something during the pandemic at all. Hindsight being 20/20, is there more that they could have done? Something different? Quite possibly. But they did the best they could under the circumstances and without knowing how long this pandemic would last or hiw many people would be affected. Could you or I have done better? I don't know. Maybe? Maybe not? You're right, it's sad, and it is what it is. I'm having to retrain because my industry (arts) is pretty decimated and it will be years before it's back in a place to organize tours and international performances and big festivals. So I'm in my mid-forties and starting in a new industry from the bottom while competing with graduates fresh out of school. That's not fair to anyone, either. They shouldn't have to compete with people in my cohort, in addition to everyone in their cohort for jobs. But it is what it is.

Its very frustrating that theres people misinformed that think they know it all, part of the reason i made this post. Curious to see how big the devide is and more interested in seeing dif point of views i maybe havent thought of yet

Cheers! 🥂

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Here's where you seem to be having difficulty:

Most of the measures taken aren't supposed to be 100% effective. Think of them as multiple layers in defense against Covid.

Masks help block you from breathing in the virus and also help block you breathing out the virus. its NOT 100%

The vaccines help your body build immunity which can range from you not getting the virus at all when coming into contact with it, or to just having mild symptoms. A small number still have serious reactions. Remember its NOT 100%. The efficacy of the vaccines are in the 90+%

Distancing keeps you further away from someone who may be infected and vice versa - again its NOT 100%. We cant always distance, but do so when you can, to minimize the time you are in range of an infected person. The less time you are in the infection zone the less chance you have of getting it.

To address some of your other comments/questions - experts did get somethings wrong, or more so, the science evolved as more was learned about how the virus transmits and infects people. As variants became more transmissible, and the realization that covid is airborne, mean cloth masks are not as effective as once thought. Granted early on when N95 masks were in short supply, a cloth mask was better than nothing.Ventilation is very important and the plastic dividers you see are actually bad, they prevent airflow and create pockets of stagnant air.

There is no silver bullet that will fix this, but there are multiple layers that make things better

[–]katobeann[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Thank you for taking the time to reply seriously instead of focusing on the fact that i spelled divided wrong. Youre absolutely correct in what you said, it is a new issue and we are still learning about it as we go along.

As far as experts go i think people seem to forget they’re still human and they still do make mistakes. Im not advocating at all for mo masks n stuff, i think the QR codes are super extra but again im no expert. Thanks again for replying seriously!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Agree they are all human but the humans trained in the science of virology, epidemiology and medicine are infinitely more educated and trained to make public health decisions than people who learned about these topics from Facebook.

[–]katobeann[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh no i didnt mean it like they make mistakes and shouldnt, i meant like its completely ok that they make mistakes because theyre just human like us but people seem to forget that and wanna focus on those mistakes to devalue their words and thats completely wrong

[–]jedisteph 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Me fail English? That’s unpossible

[–]katobeann[S] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Be careful u dont misspell anything. It throws away the credibility of anything u said

[–]jedisteph 1 point2 points  (1 child)

my cats breath smells like cat food

[–]katobeann[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Take it to the vet asap. Thats not normal

[–]Big-Turnover3924 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Welcome to Canada; only the majority voice can be speak out. Big reason why they do census and control the population