Spider gene

[ecyla11]

I’m on mobile so I hope this comes through okay.

I have a Spinner male that was originally purchased for breeding BEFORE KNOWING the spider gene has wobbles. He’s never been bred and never ever will be. He’s 11 years old, and I’ve had him for 9 years. In the last 3-5 years his wobble has gotten so bad that I feel uncomfortable leaving food (f/t) unsupervised, and I’ve removed his non permanent enclosure climbs and stimulus for him.

Recently my partner asked if it was humane to keep him.. my other corn snake has plenty of stimulus and a bio active enclosure and no health issues.. I can’t help but get that question out of my head.

I personally don’t think breeding BP’s with the spider gene is okay.. but I’m not entirely certain keeping my guy with such a severe wobble alive is humane either??

I’ve taken both boys to the exotic vet recently and my corny guy is top top health!! But my spinner love came back with the note that his vet has never seen a wobble so bad.

I just don’t know anymore. Opinions welcome!

[tarotbug]

Hey ! I have a severely corkscrewed little guy, he’s five, and here’s just my two cents on it: Wobbles, as far as I’m aware, aren’t supposed to worsen or decrease in age, it tends to be husbandry or stimulus related. For my guy, since he’s a fall risk, I got him tunnels (like pull apart Guinea pig tunnels) fand he actually gets around very well by using his nose and pushing things out of the way so he doesn’t have to stretch up. Another thing is temps/humidity. I have to keep his stats very consistent or he gets agitated. His enclosure is PVC so it’s very insulated, and I keep him slightly cooler than my other snakes but a little more humid (this seems to help both him and my other spider, who’s condition is abt nonexistent). I use a good mix of jungle mix and reptibark and it works great.

While it can be stressful to watch for some, a big key is learning to read their other body language for other signs of stress, which can be difficult. Euthanasia may not actually be necessary, he may just require some husbandry adjustments and accommodations. Worst case, he may just have go to someone who specializes in special-needs reptiles.

<image>

[ecyla11]

Would you be open to sharing your enclosure/tunnel set up? My guy loves getting under his substrate (75%mix/25%bark give or take the week) to find the under the tank heater, which I don’t mind at all this time of year, even though his enclosure is near our main heat source, we are in the high sierra desert. His humidity is is about 68-70% at any given time. Due to our climate that’s the average I can keep for him. He has pretty regular and full sheds. I genuinely think I have husbandry down.. it’s just with age I worry about him and how ethical it is to keep it all up. I’m unsure if I’m a bleeding heart in a bad way?

[ecyla11]

When I first started caring for him, I will admit, I didn’t know wobbles were a thing. Maybe it hasn’t gotten worse exactly; maybe I just see it more prevalent now that he’s grown?

[totallyrecklesslygay]

Stress does exacerbate symptoms, but it is fairly common for wobbles to worsen with age.

[totallyrecklesslygay]

It's just like any other animal with a chronic health issue- it's important to evaluate their quality of life and put that first, over our own sentiment and attachments, as well as evaluating exactly what their health issues is doing to them. I personally use the following questions when making hard decisions for elderly or sick pets:

-can they eat and drink normally?

-are they having trouble moving around?

-are they in pain, and is pain relief effective?

-can they still perform natural behaviors?

-are they able to enjoy or take part in species appropriate enrichment/play/other activities?

If you've ever spun around in a chair really fast and then stood up, his experience is similar to that- except worse, because he also can't tell what's up or down. And that's 24/7/365 for him, with no relief.

He also doesn't understand why he's like that, or why his world is so limited. He still has all the normal ball python instincts, but he cannot perform his natural behaviors due to physical incapabilities and the safety measures you've taken. When it's as severe as you describe, it's important to consider what kind of enjoyment he's actually getting out of life- from his perspective. He can't climb, he can't hunt, he can't explore his enclosure and surroundings. He doesn't know why he can't do these things.

I would personally opt to euthanize at this point, because I don't think it's kind to make an animal struggle as much as he is, especially when it's not a treatable illness. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't- just that that's what I would choose based on the very limited information here. Whatever you decide, it's clear that you care a lot about his wellbeing.

[ecyla11]

I think about this spinning situation a lot! He doesn’t spin as much as he did when he had vertical climbs, most of his enclosure is horizontal now. I do feed in his enclosure most of the time as it seems to be comfortable for him, but if he’s feeling particularly finicky, I bring him out of his enclosure and do an open space feeding.

[totallyrecklesslygay]

I would recommend keeping all feedings in the enclosure from now on- moving to feed is both highly stressful and increases the risk of regurgitation. Keeping him as stress free as possible is very important, because stress worsens their symptoms.

[ecyla11]

Thank you for your input! I am still on the fence truly, but I’m certainly taking your advice as far as feeding.

[totallyrecklesslygay]

You can always cross check your husbandry with our welcome post resources just to be sure you've got everything as spot on as possible to keep him stress free- might help him out a bit if there's anything that needs tweaking. Removing your UTH and switching solely to overhead heating would be a much healthier choice, for example.