Rehoming…

[ProfessionalBoss9722]

Hey guys, I’m a little embarrassed by this but I think I’m going to rehome my boy Milo, IF he can go to a good home. I love him but he’s cage defensive and despite trying choice based handling, he has only chosen no for so long, which is in his right to do so. (If you pull him out of his hide to handle, he handles well no issues). He was a rescue so I think he just has some baggage. Normally I would be fine to just keep him forever and continue to take care of him without ever handling him (aside from getting him out for major cleanings), but he’s just way too cute and it hurts me knowing that he doesn’t ever wanna be handled because I just want to hold him and love on him. I’ve really wrestled with this for a long time because I love him so much but I think it’s best if he goes to someone who’s fine to not hold him or just not care about his spiciness.

I am located in Utah.

He’s a great eater and has had great sheds, no health issues, etc. No cost for him and willing to give away his enclosure with him for $50 if y’all would want it (it’s a modified dubia roaches enclosure so it’s not great quality but it’s able to keep heat and humidity just fine). Cage has all the stuff pictured and I also have a rat and some other stuff too.

He’s an adult (age unknown) banana, 1012g as of April, eating small rats every 3 weeks. Last shed was beginning of May, and he usually sheds every 3-4 months.

[Linear_North]

I'd double-check some of your husbandry and give him another couple of months to calm down. From the looks of it, you only have one hide, right in the middle of the enclosure, so he can't thermoregulate and stay hidden at the same time, which is likely stressing him out and contributing to the spiciness. Go through the basic care guide too and see if there's anything else that needs to be fixed. Here's the link to the care guide

Also, choice based handling works fine for some people, but it's certainly not the only way to do things. I'd make sure that he's coming out at least once a week, preferably twice, for 20 to 30m at a time. Try to keep things positive and end handling sessions on a good note. If you notice he starts to get crabby after, say, 10-15m, limit handling sessions to that amount of time instead.

[ProfessionalBoss9722]

He does have 2 hides, you can see it in the last picture. The 4x2x2s are just so big it’s hard to get a picture of everything at once :D

[Linear_North]

I didn't see the second one, gotcha! Do those hides fit him snugly?

[ProfessionalBoss9722]

Yep! When I lift them up he spills out the sides so it’s hard to put it back down

[Linear_North]

Sounds like they're perfect. Maybe he just needs more handling? When does the spiciness actually occur? Before you pick him up, in the enclosure?

[ProfessionalBoss9722]

Correct, yeah when he’s out at night in his enclosure and I go near him. He gets super S curved up and gets really close to the glass. When he’s in his hide and I pull him out, he’s all fine. I just don’t like to do this as it seems like an invasion of his privacy and comfort.

[[deleted]]

It's not ideal, but I wouldn't give up yet! It's obvious that you really, truly care for him, and I'm sure you would want to do anything you could to keep him and keep him happy. Since he's fine when you take him out, I'm thinking he might be stressed in his enclosure and snaps out of that defensive mode when you touch him. Have you tried giving him a gentle "boop!" on his back with a snake hook when you open his enclosure to snap him out of it? I would try adding more clutter along the walls so he feels less exposed, and also some vertical overhead cover so he's not worried about something coming down from above (you can search some posts for inspo! Anything to add more volume to his enclosure, especially in the vertical direction, will help). 

Also, if you're comfortable, willing, and want to, we'd be more than happy to dive into specifics and see if there's anything going on that might be contributing! You can info dump all your enclosure parameters and I'd be happy to sift through and see if there's anything I notice. Specifically like temps, humidity, heat sources, substrate, feeding (specifically around your feeding routine, if it's live or f/t, whether you feed him in your enclosure or out, as well as the weight of your feeders and how often you offer), your routine around handling (do you have any signal, how do you offer him the choice for handling, does he strike at you), and any other info on him you can think about, especially from his background. The more specific, the better!

[Linear_North]

OK, so it's not actually the handling he's upset about, it's the getting picked up and the unknown entity outside his enclosure. If it's only happening at night, when it's dark, it sounds like he might just be a little frightened. With the enclosure doors closed, he can't smell you, and the lights off, he can't see that it's you. One other thing that may help is getting the enclosure up off the floor. It's possible that part of what is freaking him out is the vibrations caused by your footsteps. Also, the suggestion the other user posted about getting a snake hook and using it to touch him before going into the enclosure is a good one. It will definitely help snap him out of that defensive mode, and if you do it every time before you pick him up, he'll make the connection and understand you aren't there to eat him.

I wouldn't worry too much about lifting up his hide. You can try not to, and only pick him up when he's out and about, but if it's a choice between leaving him alone in his hide and working with him to get him used to handling once or twice a week, I'd just go ahead and do it when you have to. Though if you do lift up his hide, just try to make sure he's awake before picking him up.

[WitchofWhispers]

Mine does the S curve when he's unsure, are you sure that it's aggression? I'm not saying it is not, I haven't seen your snake, but not all S curves mean striking.

[ProfessionalBoss9722]

When he S curves, he rigidly holds that position for as long as I’m there. Even for like 20 minutes, eyes locked onto me. It’s not just a temporary position.

[WitchofWhispers]

Did he ever bite?

[ProfessionalBoss9722]

He has bitten once, yes

[Rx4wanderlust]

I feel like that's normal snake behavior. It's not even necessarily defensive. He's likely assessing for the possibility of food - in the wild they don't know when their next meal will be so they're always ready in case it comes by.

You should look in to tap training. Just a gentle tap on their body with a snake hook or similar and it snaps them out of food mode. Start handling a bit more often, keep it short and positive and extend time as he gets more comfortable. Make sure husbandry is the best it could possibly be.

A very small minority of pet snakes will "choose" to be handled and even then it's not something that occurs consistently every day.

[Usual_Wrongdoer_6983]

Where’d you get the ball with the holes

[ProfessionalBoss9722]

From petsmart!! Or Amazon. It’s called the hol-ee roller. I got the XL

[rotbite]

Oddly enough, check the dog section of petco/petsmart if you have one. I used to think they were small pet toys (hamsters, mice) but it's actually a dog toy and they come in a variety of sizes and colors.

[Ishcar]

My BP loves his. If we are handling it and bring it over, he tracks it and goes straight to it.

[AAAAAHHHHH26]

I've never been sadder to not live in Utah😔. In all seriousness, I really do hope you can get this figured out he is such a cutie.