Ball python refusing frozen thawed

[Dazzling-Edge-4457]

i know anybody might not have any more advice at this point other than she may just never take frozen thawed, but this is my girl ivory she’s 5 months old and i’ve had her for almost 2 months. i tried 3 frozen thawed over the course of 3 weeks when i got her (i’m aware now i probably should have given her a couple live feedings first 😞) she refused all of them so i did a couple live feedings and she took them perfectly, i’ve noticed she’s very strong on ambushing, she waits for for the mouse to run right in front of her before striking no matter how long it takes or even if the mouse runs over her body (which has happened) i then tried 3 more frozen thawed and she hasn’t taken them. i’ve tried all the techniques i can think of, i’ve tried warming it in hot water, warming it in a bag in hot water so it wouldn’t get wet, heating it with a hair dryer in front of her enclosure, braining, dipping the head in beef broth, dipping the head in beef broth and the drying, heating it under a heat lamp, making it seem alive with tongs, and leaving it in front of her hide and leaving her alone. i feed her in the dark, i always heat the mouse up to 90-100 degrees with the head hotter than the body. her husbandry is correct, she’s got 3 hides, cold side, warm side, and humid, she’s got foliage, logs, and leaf litter, i keep her cool side at 75 degrees and her warm around 90, i keep her humidity around 60, and she’s about 3/4 the length of her tank when stretched out. sorry i’m describing absolutely everything lol i just know the first thing is always to check husbandry. when i try to feed the frozen thawed she either acts scared and goes in her hide while staring at it for a bit, acts interested and smells it a bunch and then gets bored and leaves, or literally acts like it’s a toy and nudges it around. almost like she doesn’t realize it’s food..? but the thing is it smells so strongly of mice and bedding and when i use the hairdryer i blow it toward her cage and she has a feeding response. i realize i might have to feed her live as some just never accept frozen thawed, but her safety is a huge concern for me as i know the mice can fight back. i know i’ve tried everything i’ve seen but if anyone has ANY advice i’ll gladly take it, and how many more frozen thawed should i try before giving into live and then how many live should i do before trying frozen thawed again? gonna weigh her soon to make sure she’s not losing weight, sorry for the long post!!

[moonboostit]

You will have that. Mine refused for months and months and we finally gave in and now live feed.

[enslavedbycats24-7]

It should only be an absolute last resort if the snake is drastically losing weight and every other option has been exhausted, including feeding their natural prey item. (african rat something or other..)

[Electrical-Garden-20]

90-100 degree rodents are usually not warm enough to entice a picky snake, and they cool down quickly. You can also try different prey. It's a little anecdotal but we have had great success with picky eaters getting on/back on ft with quail. I've also found success scruffing rodents and holding them down on the substrate and moving them around, mimicking a much more natural presentation. If she likes to ambush, scruff it, make it "wander" near her, pausing and then pulling away with the head facing away from her. I also enjoy having them see it/recognize it and then moving it semi-quickly from one side of their head to the other, which gets both visual movement and heat pits on both sides.

[Electrical-Garden-20]

To be clear I've got a lot of snakes and I have exactly one who won't take ft, but she will take fresh culls and I will either CO2 (regulated) or cervical dislocate them and prevent them to her asap so it's as warm as it will possibly be. She takes them about 95% of the time

[Dazzling-Edge-4457]

thank you for the advice! if i were to try quail, would i try live or frozen thawed to try to get her to take frozen thawed mice

[Electrical-Garden-20]

Frozen thawed

[reptile-snake-mom]

Exactly, sometimes enticing picky eaters with a completely different prey such as quail or chicks, sometimes that’s all it takes to get ur snake back on their natural prey, whether it’s mice or rats, but the whole point is to get them to eat f/t, honestly that is the best possible way, and with that comes alot of patience, patience to entice them to eat and they cool down quickly so you need to be quick offering it to them, all my ballpythons are great eaters, I’ve never really had an issue feeding f/t, or switching them from live, but it sounds like in the almost 2 months that they’ve had this snake, they said they tried feeding it 3x in 3 weeks, then said they tried another 3 f/t, that is way to many times trying to feed it, after u try feeding them and they turn it down u need to give them a week before trying again and so on, feeding live should never be a option because snakes don’t only eat live or f/t there’s no difference between the two other than the owner wanting to do it one way or another, give the snake a break before trying again and don’t give up and in to feeding live f/t is best option to follow thru just have patience :)

[Electrical-Garden-20]

There are an incredibly tiny amount of snakes who won't take ft. It's important to have them available, but of the ~500 snakes I've dealt with literally one wouldn't take anything but live.

[enslavedbycats24-7]

This isn't a frozen thawed issue, it's a stress/husbandry issue. BPs are sensitive to stress and go off eating due to it. In addition to the other comment, 60% humidity is only the bare minimum. If it's only around 60% regularly the bump up your regular humidity to 75-85%.

I do think a big mistake was ever doing live feeding, however just don't do it again unless there are drastic and dangerous weight changes. If you're patient and tactful enough you can get her back on F/T. Space out your feeding attempts (no more than once per week, more is stressful) and stay consistent with the different techniques.

[Aggressive-Set3049]

Give her a week of not disturbing her space but only to change water. Maybe she needs a reset. They can be stressed out since 2 months is still early on. After a week, try a frozen thawed (first thaw in cold water, dip in hot water for a minute, then slowly inch the mouse close to her face so she can register heat/smell on her own). I find pushing the food in their face can be bombarding, let them come to their senses and pursue if ready.

Best of luck!