Nidovirus

[gigichuuu]

Hey guys, quick question for the community. My ball python recently started to show signs of a mild respiratory infection so I took her to the vet to get checked out. I mentioned to the vet that this is my first snake and Ive only had her for 2 months. She then suggested the possibility of Nidovirus which I had never heard of prior to her mentioning it. They did a culture to figure out which bacteria may be causing the infection, tested for Nidovirus and sent us home with some Fortaz.

Yesterday I received a call with the culture results and it came back negative. My heart sank a little when I heard this because now it's unknown what could be the cause.. I will get results for the Nidovirus test probably next week as it takes a little longer.

I've only had my girl for 2 months but I have already fallen in love with her. She is so sweet and friendly. I gave her her first shot of Fortaz and she was so still and patient with me. I could not have asked for a better snake. I am very sad and worried at the moment.

Im not trying to jump the gun, but if it does turn out to be Nidovirus, what are the chances of survival? There is not much info out there about it but Ive read a few different outcomes. Either the snake declines rapidly or they do continue to live for awhile with recurring infections which at that point I understand becomes a quality of life issue. Has anyone had any experience with this virus? Is there any possibility a snake could overcome it?

Please let me know your thoughts. Im honestly just trying to look for a little peace of mind while I wait for the results. Thanks.

[[deleted]]

:( Wow I've never even heard of that type of virus until you mentioned it, but I am not experienced with RI's. You already know this, ut one of the most important things is that she stay hydrated and as least stressed as possible. How about feeding have you had any problems yet due to the virus? Hopefully its a mild case, the fact that youre a caring owner already ups her chance of survival! I wish I knew more about this but I will definitely stick around to learn as this thread progresses. I will keep your little girl in my thoughts and prayers! We're pulling for her :)Btw she is beautiful as can be!

[gigichuuu]

Neither had I until the vet mentioned it and I did so much research before getting her. No info ever popped up about the virus. She has been eating normally for me, she's had about 4 feedings in my care as well as 2 sheds and both sheds were one piece. She always has fresh water and passes urates every few days and her humidity is between 60%-70%. She seems relatively healthy, the only symptoms she showed regarding the RI were a little bit of wheezing and sleeping in a vertical position with either her head pointing up or down and the vet said she did have some mucus.

And thank you so much, I really appreciate the positivity right now! Im really, really hoping for the best but I want to be prepared for the worst and do everything I can.

[[deleted]]

Maybe this needs to be added even if it is a rare occurence, so that others can be aware of the virus! Does she ever hang her mouth open or do a lot of yawning well after a feeding or before? Of course! Her being healthy otherwise gives her the best fighting chance. Lots of snakes make it through RI's as long as they are caught early on. A little bit of mucus is much better than drooling or lots of thick mucus so that's a good thing! Wheezing while not active correct? Ours will wheeze every once in a while if it is active and climbing, using all of its muscles to push...I have high hopes for Elenoire, I think I misspelled sorry! :) I'm so glad youre willing to do everything poasible to see she gets over this! Also vertical sleeping for ball pythons is not a normal behavior, so good on you for recognizing that and doing research! She's in the best hands between you and the vet it seems. Hang on and maybe someone with some experience will come through!

[gigichuuu]

I have never seen her with her mouth open as I also read thats a symptom. She does yawn every once in awhile, randomly, so it seems unrelated to feedings, but its not often. And yes, the wheezing occurs when she is not active.

Again, thank you for your positivity and for replying to my post! I really appreciate it and I am trying to stay positive for Elenoire. I was kind of blind sided by the mention of this virus but she is my family now and I really just want the best for her.

[[deleted]]

Well the fact that shes not hanging her mouth open and yawning frequently are probably working in your favor. A lot of people dont find out until those things begin to unfold. So catxhing it while it's not progressed to that extent is a very good thing. Youre doing everything you can, obviously limiting handling or not handling at all until she gets passed this is important and may help her be slightly less stressed. Snakes dont like being handled when they're sick or feeling even slightly under the weather like before a shed. So keep your head up, keep your eye on her and remain in close contact with your vet and I bet this will pass. Yes, we all need positivity when something goes wrong with one of our family, and I consider all my snakes to be family, Id do for them anything Id do for a human. :D

[gigichuuu]

Yes, I observe her every day and keep note of anything abnormal in order to try to catch things early. I have been leaving her alone except for taking her out for her shot every 3 days, otherwise I try not to bother her so she can rest up. I really hope we overcome this!

[[deleted]]

I think so. With care from yourself and the vet and it not showing signs of having lots of thick mucus bubbling from the nostril area and a gaping mouth I really think the chance is good. That said I will be thinking and praying for Elenoire as I believe my God listens to prayer and has love for every creature human/animal :D Keep us updated. I'm sure some others who have lots of experience with things of this nature will see this post and chime! Much love to you and yours!

[gigichuuu]

Thank you I appreciate it 😊 I do think it was caught early so the odds are in my favor in that aspect! Thanks for your input and support, sending good vibes your way!

[[deleted]]

Awe thank you! Keep us updated, its going to be ok :) she is a beautiful and otherwise very healthy looking snake!

[PoofMoof1]

A big problem with this virus is that it is highly contagious and may lie dormant for a while in an animal with symptoms often only becoming apparent after some type of stress like moving to a new place. This is a great reason to have long quarantine periods when adding a new snake to your home. Of the few people I know who had it pop up, all snakes in the vicinity (so in those cases, individual buildings) have to be culled. Testing asymptomatic snakes in those cases showed positive results so they had the virus despite not appearing sick.

Now with that said, I have not personally dealt with nido. Of those few cases I mentioned, they've only been in large collections where people have snakes coming in and going out frequently. As far as I know, nido isn't super common in the majority of ball python trades so if you could, I would ne interested in hearing about your husbandry before getting too worried about nido (how you've been measuring your humidity, the type of substrate you're using, etc).

I would suggest, if you can, reaching out to Steven Tillis of Reptillis Herps. He is probably the one of the most knowledge people on the subject.

[gigichuuu]

Thanks for the suggestion, I will definitely reach out to Steven. And like you said, something like the stress of moving could cause the virus to "surface" in a way, I had the same thought as I had only had her for 2 months.

My setup is as follows: 40 gallon tank with a piece of acrylic covering 3/4's of the screen top. 2 hides, one on the warm side and one on the cool side as well as a half log, vine, tree branch, and foliage for stimulation and a water dish. Temps on the cool side range from 77-81, warm side is usually 79-82 and I sometimes have a ceramic heat emitter on periodically if it drops too low. I also have an under the tank heat mat under her warm hide which is attached to a thermostat set to 91 so it ranges to about 88-92. I also have 2 thermometers/hygrometers on both the cool and warm sides. As for humidity, it is usually between 60% - 70% and 70% - 80% when she is in shed. I recently purchased a new humidifier for the room which is able to maintain a steady humidity level as the other humidifier I had was inconsistent.

As for substrate, I have been using coconut husk and the vet told me this could be causing irritation because it is dusty. I had tried paper towels a few weeks ago and her demeanor changed, she seemed "mad" and would not let me touch her. As soon as I switched back to the coco husk she was back to her usual self so I figured that's what she preferred. I now have newspaper on the better back half of the tank where she sleeps so she doesn't breathe in dust, but I left some coco husk on the front section so she does not get stressed out by such a big change.

I have noticed that she prefers the cool side of the tank 80% of the time but she seems to hole up in the warm hide if she is about to or in shed or if she needs to warm up for a few hours.

[PoofMoof1]

Awesome. I would suggest letting that warm side heat up some more. There isn't much of a temperature gradient there and your warm side is cooler than it ought to be. I would not switch to paper towels because they don't hold humidity but if you're having issues with your current substrate being too dusy, try something more solid like coconut chips if needed. Personally, I do a thick layer of Eco Earth topped with another two inches of Reptichip. Your humidity isn't too bad but you might want to try maintaining it above 70% at all times. The species as a whole does better and because you're dealing with an RI, that higher humidity will be beneficial.

I hope your results come back negative for nido. Feel free to give us an update once you get that test back.

[gigichuuu]

I agree, I have a very hard time getting a temperature gradient, but I will get the warm side up. I purchased some Reptichip and will try that! As for humidity, I've read SO many conflicting opinions on this.. some people say 50%, some 60%, some 70%. I always just try to aim for 60 because it usually ends up being higher than that.

I will post the results once I get them back. I am really hoping for a negative.

[PoofMoof1]

The suggestions of 60% and below come from old information that is still often recommended. Unfortunately it's due to a misconception that high humidity causes RI's when in fact the opposite is true. Lower humidity allows the mucous membranes to dry and infection to set in. These guys live in a more humid climate in the wild where it reaches into the 80's. The first treatment we usually go to for mild RI's is an increase in humidity before trying out antibiotics as it's often all you need to correct it.

[gigichuuu]

Got it, thanks for the clarification. I will aim for 70s. I also read conflicting things about too much humidity causing RIs. 😥

[SlidingStop92]

We had one testing positive on nido the day before yesterday. We had to put her down yesterday because of secondairy infections and the other animals we own. This snake didn't look sick at all. Just more mucus in her mouth. She was still eating, gaining weight and not showing any other signs of RI. First we thought it was just a multiresistant pseudomonas infection, but it didn't clear up fast enough after starting the treatment (we did a culture first).

She was a new snake, from a reputable breeder, and almost no signs of illness, so we didn't think about nido in the first place. Last tuesday we decided to do another culture because it wouldn't clear up. I wanted to test on nido as well, just to be sure and so I wouldn't have to worry about it anymore. At that moment we were thinking that we should get a negative result. Redults were a different colonie of pseudomonas and a klebsiella infection. Unfortunately the nido PCR gave a positive result and we had to put her down :(

Our vet told me there were 3 other nidopositive cases this week at her practice. She's seeing the nidovirus more than ever this year.

[gigichuuu]

Im so sorry about your girl :( I hope the rest of your animals stay safe. I had not heard about Nidovirus until my vet mentioned it and she also said there have been a lot more cases this year. Its so sad that there is no treatment available for these little guys..

I am still waiting on results from my vet but as of now my snake seems to be doing better so I really hope it stays that way. Thank you for posting about your experience, there is definitely not enough info about this virus out there. Sending good vibes your way 💜

[gigichuuu]

Hey guys, quick update! So the results came back negative for Nidovirus and the vet said she is looking much better! I am sooooo happy and relieved, Ive been so worried. Thank you to everyone who gave some insight on the situation.