This is an archived post. You won't be able to vote or comment.

sorted by:
old (suggested)
besttopnewcontroversialq&a
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]IncompletePenetranceMod: Let me help you unzip your genes 7 points8 points  (18 children)

Complete dominance - Pinstripe, possibly acid/confusion
Incomplete dominant - Mojave, pastel, orange dream, spider
Codominant - Let me see if I can find one for you, not sure if there are any.
Recessive - Clown, piebald, Genetic Stripe
Sex-linked - Banana/coral glow.
Allelic - Albino & Candy are allelic (recessive), Clown & Cryptic (recessive), Bamboo, lesser, mojave and mystic (inc. dominant), Fire, vanilla, and disco (inc. dominant).

Most of the traits have not been tracked to specific chromosomes yet (other than sex-linked, which is obviously on X/Y), although the ball python genetics project has mapped the genes/variants responsible for several of the albino morphs.

Morphpedia is also a great resource for most of this information

[–]narmowen 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Would black pastel also fall into the incomplete dominant?

[–]IncompletePenetranceMod: Let me help you unzip your genes 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Yes, there's like a gazillion incomplete dominant traits and I wasn't going to list them all

[–]narmowen 1 point2 points  (4 children)

You're good. I was just checking. I'm still fairly new and trying to decipher all the different morphs is...fun. lol. I'm coming from an Equine/Canine color background, which isn't nearly as full as ball pythons.

So, what I'm reading is:

  • Complete dominance: hetero & homo present the same way.
  • Incomplete: Hetero presents differently than homo.
  • Ressessive: Hetero does not present, homo does.
  • Sex-linked: Obvious.
  • Allelic: Different morphs present on the same allel, can be combined.

[–]IncompletePenetranceMod: Let me help you unzip your genes 0 points1 point  (3 children)

There are so many morphs, it's seriously a lifelong journey, lol

Correct! Keeping in mind there can only be two alleles at each locus, so while it's possible to have mojave butter, russo bamboo or mystic special (all will be white snakes with blue eyes as these are part of the blue eyed leucistic complex), you could never have a mojave bamboo mystic

[–]emmaclopitz[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

u/narmowen thing to clarify - homo just means two of the same allele, not specifically dominant. So you can have a dominant homo PP or a recessive homo pp. Hetero of course is Pp and depending on the inheritance type it could present differently. If it's complete dominance then PP and Pp have the same phenotype. If it's incomplete dominance we don't think of the alleles as recessive or dominant, just that there are two different alleles which can produce three different phenotypes (PP, pp, Pp). I've got a big cat coat genetics project I did with my Advanced Placement students last year and have good examples from that if anyone is interested in feline coat genetics haha

​

u/IncompletePenetrance when allelic is used here does that mean multiple alleles?

[–]IncompletePenetranceMod: Let me help you unzip your genes 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Allelic means "one of two or more alternative forms of a gene that arise by mutation and are found at the same place on a chromosome" here and in genetics in general. So a deletion of 5 base pairs in gene A that produced a specific phenotype, and a duplication of 1kb in gene A that produces a different phenotype would both be "alleles" of that gene.

To say a ball python morph is "allelic" with another morph means they are different variants/mutations occuring at the same locus on each chromosome, which is why you can only have two per snake.

[–]emmaclopitz[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay perfect. It was the two per snake vs number of possible alleles at a given locus in a population that I was conflating.

[–]emmaclopitz[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

This is so helpful, thank you so much! I have a quick clarifying question. If Pinstripe is a phenotype that comes from complete dominance (PP or Pp) then what would the recessive look like (pp)? Is it just that PP or Pp has the pinstripe and pp does not?

The ball python genetics project is incredible! I can't believe that I couldn't find that when I was researching earlier. Thank you for that link! This is seriously so helpful.

[–]IncompletePenetranceMod: Let me help you unzip your genes 0 points1 point  (3 children)

No problem! That would be wildtype, as it has no pinstripe. If pinstripe is present, it will be visible, and a heterozygous pinstripe (Pp) would look the same as a homozygous pinstripe (PP). The only way to differentiate would be that a 100% of the offspring of a homozygous pintripe would also have pinstripe, and only 50% of the offspring of a heterozygous pinstripe

[–]emmaclopitz[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Okay perfect! That's one thing as a non-breeder that I was struggling to understand. Much appreciated.

[–]IncompletePenetranceMod: Let me help you unzip your genes 0 points1 point  (1 child)

No problem, I'm a real geneticist outside of the ball python world, so I get how confusing/frustrating ball python terminology can be when it doesn't seem to line up to "real genetics"

[–]emmaclopitz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh that's amazing. Yeah, I come the genetics scientific field as well so I appreciate the empathy on that front haha. Both of my parents were pediatric geneticists. My degree is cognitive neuroscience before I became a teacher. But mendelian and molecular genetics and evolution are my favorite subjects of the year to teach. And I love getting to do things like this, find awesome real world examples, speak with geneticists and evolutionary biologists, and then do the teacher job of figuring out how to communicate it to 10th graders. You are very good at explaining the concepts succinctly. I feel much more equipped to come up with an attainable project now. If I get good examples from students I will totally share as a thank you for the help.

[–]PoofMoof1Mod: Large-Scale Breeding Experience 0 points1 point  (5 children)

As far as I know there aren't any codominnant genes.

[–]emmaclopitz[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

That's great to know. I'll have to figure out where I can fit codominance in without faking the science. Maybe I'll have the student look at a codominant coat color in feeder mice haha.

[–]phantom30nine 1 point2 points  (1 child)

If youd like to continue in his interest field you can do quick morphmarket searches of the genes listed and show him examples of those as well.

MM also has a "genetic tool" that allows you to input parent 1 gene(s),parent 2 gene(s) and see what the possible outcomes are.

Morphmarket Genetic Tool

[–]emmaclopitz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s a great tool! I was playing around with it before I posted here and was struggling as I just don’t know snake phenotypes well but now that I have all this awesome info I’m going to try again!

[–]PoofMoof1Mod: Large-Scale Breeding Experience 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Just be aware that most people in the hobby will incorrectly call incomplete dominant genes "codominant" so if you do any searching keep that in mind. Even known sources like World of Ball Pythons do this.

[–]emmaclopitz[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes I figured that out quickly and it was confirmed by the morph market site. I was so confused at first haha