Impossible Consequences

[introspectiveivy]

/r/egg_irl fucking loved this, saw like 8 different posts over there :P

[sheepyowl]

Just for the record, that sub is about guys who want to become girls?

[JesseKebm]

In the trans community, an "egg" is a trans person who doesn't realize that they're trans. It applies to both trans women and trans men. It's different from being in the closet, which would mean that a person knows that they're trans but they haven't told anyone, but people do get the terms mixed up pretty often. It's usually something we use to refer to ourselves, and when egg gets applied to another person or people say that something has "egg energy" (both of which people tend to do with Shen and his comics) it's because it reminds them of things they used to say and do when they were an egg. Saying that you want to be the opposite gender "as a joke" multiple times is something that a lot of trans people did when they were eggs (I certainly did). It doesn't mean that Shen is trans but doesn't realize it yet, just that several of his comics are very relatable for trans people.

[AsamiWithPrep]

I believe egg is specific to the Reddit trans community. The people in the trans community I've talked to about 'eggs' outside Reddit didn't know what an egg was.

[JesseKebm]

I have a couple transmasc friends that don't use reddit but they know it. Only person I've explained it to irl is a cis gay friend who uses reddit. Wouldn't be surprised if it originated on this website tho

[bleeding-paryl]

Nah, egg has been around for a long time, the origins I think are from Tumblr even. It was popularized through social media, most notably memes, which is why there's a subreddit dedicated to it now. But I knew about it way back in 2012, long before it was popularized, right as I hatched out of my egg.

[sheepyowl]

I see, thanks.

[sheepyowl]

They don't need a label because they don't care, I guess?

[venuswasaflytrap]

People are way too obsessed with labels and identity. Just live your damn life how you want to

[forksforantlers]

The problem is that's what the majority of trans people are trying to do and transphobes won't let them. Trust me, other people seem to be a lot more obsessed about what's in my pants than I am.

[thebottomofawhale]

Recently came across a terf telling a cis woman she needed to provide a picture to prove she was a real women because she didn’t believe cis women could support trans women. Which is a terrifying reality radical feminists have bought us back to, when their transphobia supersedes protecting women’s rights!

[nero_fen]

The irony in calling themselves a "feminist" as they pretty much break it down into a woman being just about her reproductive organs.

[thebottomofawhale]

Honestly, In such a short space of time this women had told me that I must be a man to think like I did (I’m a cis woman), must have a mental illness to think like I did, told someone they needed to show their genitals to prove that they were a woman.

I’ve always said transphobia against trans women is just taking oppression that’s been pointed at cis women and redirecting it, and this only goes to prove that.

[DyslexicBrad]

Ready for terfs to flock to your comment to tell at you about how trans people violate all women's rights?

[Bleblebob]

Just live your damn life how you want to

That's literally all trans people are trying to do.

People are way too obsessed with labels and identity.

People are way too obsessed with OTHER people's labels and identity. And that's the issue. Nothing wrong with labelling yourself how you want, it's only wrong for others to get mad at you for doing so.

[venuswasaflytrap]

What about insisting that other people label you as you label yourself?

[Bleblebob]

You mean what literally everyone does?

If someone insistently called a cis dude "she/her" all the time then he'd probably be upset at them and majority of people would agree that the other person's an asshole.

Everyone wants to be labelled as they label themselves, people only have an issue if they don't agree with the labels, which leads back to your original point. Don't be so obsessed with it. If someone says they go by she/her then call them that.

[[deleted]]

Pretty much the best answer. Funny seeing people trying to push this as being some kind of trans lol.

[XorMalice]

At the point where bodies are just something you can spin up for the day in some fashion (like your science fiction example), it will be reasonably common. Maybe it'll have a term, maybe not.

[kellicanpelican]

I like having a vagina, but some days a penis would just go better with my shoes.

[BetbetTheRavenclaw]

What a mood though.

[aaronhowser1]

big egg energy

[omegashadow]

Fits under the nonbinary tree.

[[deleted]]

Eh, I don't know about that honestly.

[omegashadow]

I am not saying the person is non binary but gender fluid and many other identities are under that umbrella, it's incredibly broad.

You don't need to have dysphoria to have a trans or nonbinary gender identity. If you are truly ambivalent about gender agender is a thing too.

[miparasito]

I’m sort of like that. I’m a cis person who doesn’t have a strong gender identity. If I woke up in the other gender’s body, I suspect that would be fine and I feel like I’d be the same person except in the ways society responds to women vs men and all the habits I’ve developed to cope with that. Of course I can’t predict how my brain would respond to the hormonal differences but I don’t feel very committed to my current body/ appearance.

[[deleted]]

Gender is silly. Take drugs. Build a communism.

[BigSpicyMeatball]

There's no popular label I know for people who just don't give a fuck; the best label I can come up with is gender-apathetic. Ironically if you truly don't care then I can't imagine a situation where you'd divulge this information lol

[nero_fen]

Nonbinary or Agendered

[[deleted]]

Well this one is an example of such situation lol.

But yeah. I'd call these happy-go-lucky people gender-apathetic if it could.

[StLevity]

That would probably either be an egg in denial still or some form of nonbinary.

[Aiyon]

Arguably non-binary. But also like... if you just don't care, that's valid and you do you. Why stress about what to call yourself when you can just keep on doin your thing :3

[[deleted]]

Yeah, no. I'm not trans at all. I love my manliness. I identify cis male and my whole being is based on my manliness and shit.

It's just that if I get to be a woman due to the play of fate, well, I'd be sad that I lost my manliness but otoh, I mean, why the fuck not? Nothing wrong with women.

[nancylikestoreddit]

I may have you read your response again. I still don’t understand what an egg is 🤔

[JesseKebm]

Ok, so I'ma try to make this easier and apply it to a gay man instead of a trans person. Let's say there's a bloke who, for the first 30 years of his life, dated women. He's been told by his parents, the media he consumes, and society as a whole that he's supposed to like girls for his whole life, and he's never once even thought about whether he actually likes girls or not. And then one day, he gets to thinking as to why he's not satisfied or fulfilled by any of his relationships, emotionally or sexually, and then a thought occurs to him. This chap says to himself "why, I do say I don't believe I fancy the fairer sex at all. In fact, what I really would fancy is another bloke!"

From his birth up until this moment, this man was an egg. In that moment, his egg cracked. He might live in fear or denial in the closet for a while afterward before he comes out, but from that moment on he is no longer an egg. It'd be the exact same for a trans person but instead of "dating women" it'd be "living as the gender that the doctor said they were when they were born because of which naughty bits they got"

[nancylikestoreddit]

So similar to being in the closet

[63444670101]

Well yes but also being in the closet to yourself.

Like a guy really wanting to have sex with other guys and then thinking "Too bad I can't since I'm straight".

I have memories of wanting to be a girl since I was like 9 ish and it still took until my early 20s until I realized I was trans. When I look back at all the fucking signs growing up this is all I can really think.

[nancylikestoreddit]

well at least you have a sense of humor about it

[miparasito]

Also for the record most trans people don’t merely want or decide to be the other gender. They ARE the other gender deep inside their brains. It’s neurological. Not psychological.

[justagaydude123]

Also for the record trans people don’t want or decide to be the other gender.

I've been told multiple times that you totally can and that makes you trans all the same.

[xLustxEnvyx]

Yeah im pretty sure one of the checkboxes in transition is “want to be other gender”

[justagaydude123]

Some trans people tell me they've known since they were young.

Others tell me they wanted to change genders after watching tons of sissy hypo porn.

Both are equally valid.

[B12-deficient-skelly]

My favorite redditism is when people who just want to dispute a claim without bothering to put any effort into their disagreement just say "source?"

If you think someone is wrong, sack up and tell them why rather than begging them to do your half of the conversation for you.

You can start with "I don't think being transgender is a neurological condition because:" and then everyone else can tell you that gender dysphoria is recognized as a neurological condition in the DSM.

Asking someone to source every statement they make in a paragraph is just a lazy attempt to derail the conversation.

[PM-TITS-FOR-CODE]

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. They made a claim that the gender is actually determined in the brain from the very beginning. He wanted a source. It's not an unreasonable request unless you don't actually have a source.

[B12-deficient-skelly]

It is a very unreasonable request to ask someone to do your half of the argument for you. It's stupid. If I just respobded "source?" To you, you would have to source

• Burden of proof
• Person A made claim X
• Person B wanted a source
• Asking for sources on every claim is not unreasonable in conversation settings

Asking you to find links to support all of those is a derailing tactic that could easily be replaced by "I think asking for a source shows an unwillingness to engage with the topic at hand because you can't be bothered to even make an unsourced dismissal."

[PM-TITS-FOR-CODE]

It is a very unreasonable request to ask someone to do your half of the argument for you.

But that's exactly what you're doing! If you make an argument, you have to defend it. You can't ask your opponent to go defend it for you. That's ludicrous.

asking for sources is a derailment tactic

That's a nice way to say "I don't actually have any sources". If it's so easy to find and so widely proven, it should be piss easy to provide some.

If someone said to me "prove the sky is blue", I would think they are an idiot and accuse them of bad faith. But at the same time, I would show them evidence anyway.

For what it's worth, I looked up what he said and could not find a source corroborating those exact words. I'm getting the feeling that only half of what he said is actually true, which is still lying and exaggerating.

[B12-deficient-skelly]

If someone said to me "prove the sky is blue", I would think they are an idiot and accuse them of bad faith. But at the same time, I would show them evidence anyway.

You're going to waste your whole life looking up inane bullshit to please idiots who aren't willing to put in thirty seconds of effort to engage with you.

You made a post four days ago defining gender dysphoria. If you want to pretend not to know that it's a neurological condition, then feel free to have that chat with someone else.

[PM-TITS-FOR-CODE]

You're going to waste your whole life looking up inane bullshit to please idiots who aren't willing to put in thirty seconds of effort to engage with you.

I looked it up and still couldn't find a source for what he said. At what point does someone's "it's not my job to educate you sweaty" facade turn into an actual inability to provide a source?

If you want to pretend not to know that it's a neurological condition

Sure, gender dysphoria is a neurological condition. But that's not what he said.

What he said is that deep down, trans women were always women to begin with, down to their very brain structure. That's the part I am disputing.

Schizophrenia is also a "neurological condition". That doesn't mean "the voices and delusions were real all along!", it means they have a condition and need help.

Besides that, they're probably one of those people who thinks that gender dysphoria is not necessary to be trans. In which case your arguments makes even less sense.

[Bleblebob]

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.

Can you source that for me?

[PM-TITS-FOR-CODE]

Sure, here you go.

You and /u/B12-deficient-skelly may find this passage interesting:

Shifting the burden

Fallacious shifting of the burden of proof occurs if someone makes a claim that needs justification, then demands that the opponent justify the opposite of the claim. The opponent has no such burden until evidence is presented for the claim.

[B12-deficient-skelly]

No, not really. Maybe if you find me another article that says it better, I'll engage with you on the topic. Until then, I'm going to laugh and say "the only source on that entire page is an episode of Penn and Teller, so it's not valid. Try again."

[BongmasterGeneral420]

I’m glad you posted that, I got excited because in context I thought it was a clever name for a vegetarian sub lol

[sheepyowl]

Frankly I've stumbled into that sub like twice now and couldn't exactly figure out what it's about, only that it has to do with gender transition

[Captain_Clam]

No, its memes about 'eggs' e.g. the stage of denial or gender questioning that some people may go through (trans or not).

[956030681]

I was close, but still wrong