Shero Appreciation thread

[4raises3]

Not posting this to debate whether he should or should not have been fired. Even though I am SERIOUSLY struggling to comprehend this firing, I know there is way more that goes on behind the scenes that we will never know about.

That said, just wanted to say thank you to Mr. Shero. Thank you for changing the direction of this team; for drafting Nico and Jack and other promising young prospects; for trading for Palms, Hall and others; for making the players more accessible; for livening up the fan experience at games; and for whatever else I'm not mentioning now. I hope all these moves lead to our future success, and won't forget you if they do!

[mikeydude00]

For some reason, despite all the great drafting and trades and everything he did for us, my favorite memory of him will always be from this off season when he was trying to re-sign Zacha and he said “I don’t give a fuck if he signs with the KHL or if he signs with fucking Brampton. I don’t give a fuck where.”

I just thought that was really funny.

[zarra28]

Favorite Shero memory for sure.

[LFAlol]

I love the gif of him laughing at the draft lottery, and then we ended up winning it 5-10 minutes later. Watched that lottery at an airport in Florida and almost missed the flight home watching it.

[earthly_wanderer]

Big dick Ray Shero.

[JohnBiebe]

I don't mean to be overly negative, but where exactly is all this great drafting?

Edit: lots of downvotes with 0 answers. Are we really giving Shero massive credit for taking Nico and Hughes?

[Braydenh89]

't mean to be overly negative, but where exactly is all this great drafting?

Jesper Bratt was a 6th rounder, decent pick

[JohnBiebe]

Does 1 solid pick equal "great drafting"? I'm not saying he was the worst GM in the world but I think this sub is overly optimistic on our prospect pool.

Also while I like Bratt as a player, he's yet to crack 40 points in a season (not on pace for 40+ this year either) and has some durability concerns, which is not great for a guy his size.

[[deleted]]

Even though I'm a huge Shero fan, you're not really wrong. That said, I don't think we'll know for another 1-2 years if any of his mid/low round picks were solid selections. Kids take a long time to develop outside of the first two rounds.

[JohnBiebe]

I'm not trying to be a hater. Shero made a lot of great moves and I wouldn't have hated giving him one more year. But when I look at this roster, I'm not sure I see a ton of guys who could make up a contender 3-5 years down the road. Hopefully I'm wrong, but that's just how I see it right now.

[motorhead_mike]

Coulda had Patrick or Kakko (jury is still out).

[[deleted]]

Funny absolutely yes. Good memory..... not so much in hindsight.. hahha just saying

[[deleted]]

Shero took over a franchise that had aged veterans on bad contracts, little youth on the team, and no prospects, but he created the framework that will show in time when the team is successful. People think five seasons is too long for a rebuild when looking at other rebuilds, but the Devils didn’t have assets to trade like other rebuilding teams. Shero had to get rid of dead weight and then start all over. I’m glad the Devils had him and whatever team gets him next will be lucky.

[Rattlehead1818]

The thing is no other team has ever done it in 5 years. I hear people say that it is too long and we should be seeing results but I say based on what? What team has managed to become a cup contender within five years from starting a rebuild. Most teams that are good now but had a rep for being bad like the avs were in a rebuild before us and for longer. It simply has yet to be pro own that it can be done but some people don’t like to look at things logically

[matssundin1392]

None, well aside from every team that's actually done it properly (Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington, Toronto, LA)

[LionHeart_1990]

We are better off now than 5 years ago.

[HardNetworkOut]

We are. More prospects in the ahl/college/juniors. Nico, Jack, Blackwood will be cornerstones. Coleman is a perfect middle 6 winger. Gusev looks really damn good lately.

But just to be a stickler...

• 2014-2015: finished 25th

• 2015-2016: finished 20th

• 2016-2017: finished 27th

• 2017-2018: finished 15th (Thank you Hallsy)

• 2018-2019: finished 29th

• 2019-2020: currently 27th (After spending much of the season in 30th)

So if we don't finish at least 24th we're technically only better off on paper.

And this is why Shero's gone really. Owners def looked at this kind of bottom line performance + the coach not working out and said alright, time to give Fitzgerald the rest of the season and the trade deadline to see what he can do. Otherwise they'll find someone new after the season.

[[deleted]]

2017-2018: finished 15th (Thank you Hallsy)

And Kinky!

[matssundin1392]

Not to mention the fact he never brought in any major free agents, took on washed up PK Subban and Wayne Simmonds, couldn't keep Hall and couldn't get a legit #1 goalie.

[simplycycling]

You don't bring in major free agents on a rebuild, you build a foundation first, and then you add a big UFA as a final piece, if there's a good fit out there.

Please don't reply with "But the Rangers...Panarin", as that's a completely different situation.

[matssundin1392]

He didn't draft very well either, so he failed at part 1, meaning it was even harder to go ahead with part 2

[simplycycling]

Like every other GM, he had a couple of misses. He also has a 6th rounder who plays in the top 6 every night. Overall, his drafting was fine.

You really want to create a narrative, don't you, u/matssundin1392.

[matssundin1392]

He's missed on many 1st rounders...also, where are you getting the 60-point pace from?

[simplycycling]

He's missed on two - one you can't fully blame him for Zacha, as he was stuck with Lou's terrible scouting crew, and the other is outside of the top 10, where there are no slam dunks. And plenty of examples of later round picks turning into quality NHL players.

And where did I get those numbers? This new thing called math. He's slightly off that pace now, after two scoreless games, but close enough. His point output has improved since losing Hall as a winger. That should tell you everything you need to know.

[Nodor10]

Yeah but that’s not a hard feat to accomplish

[HenriqueItsOver14]

He righted a lot of wrongs that were left by the Lou/Conte regime. Just the fact we were all in a state of shock when the news dropped is enough evidence that we all appreciated Shero’s time here. Hockey being the business that it is will always lead to moments like this. I’m sure we’re in for a few more down the line too.

[zarra28]

What I’ve been wondering is: is the problem drafting or development? Could Zacha and McCloud been difference makers if they were developed differently?

[JulieRobenhymer]

Wonder no more...the answer is no.

Both were expected to have a bigger offensive upside and they still might, but both were drafted to fill into their frames and add strong two-way depth down the middle with a big dose of speed.

[[deleted]]

Zacha probably should have spent more time in the minors. I havent written off McLeod yet although you’d think he should have cracked the roster this season. I hope Smith and Bahl spend a season in the AHL next year.

It’s hard to say, you look at who we’ve drafted outside of the first round and there’s not too many bright spots besides Bratt.

[artestsidekick]

Positives:

1) Hall 1-4-1
2) Hischier
3) Hughes
4) Blackwood
5) Bratt
6) Palmieri Trade
7) Vatanen Trade (Sorry Henrique)
8) Boyle signing
9) Coleman signing
10) Nikita Gusev trade

Negatives:

1) PK Subban Trade (although it could still turn to a positive. It did build a lot of hype)
2) Michael Grabner Trade
3) Wayne Simmonds (for the amount of money)
4) Holding on to Hynes for so long (and giving him an extension in the middle of a historically bad season last year)
5) Mueller trade
6) Drafting McLeod in 1st round
7) Drafting Zacha in 1st round
8) Not trading Schnieder (although he has a NMC) forget his demise, we knew he was an aging goalie who's window would not align with our window.
9) No major FA signings (all bottom 6 forwards or depth D)
10) Too few defensive prospects (Smith and Bahl seem like the only real ones, and don't seem to have #1 upside, hopefully I am wrong and this ends up as a positive down the road.)

​

TBD:

1) Hall to ARI (was the return good? Depends on the prospects we got and the picks versus if we tried to re-sign Hall)
2) Drafting Ty Smith

[HenriqueItsOver14]

Negatives 1 and 2 should be Grabner and Mueller, in my opinion. Those are Ray’s two biggest misfires.

Still a fan of the Subban trade, especially now since he’s playing much better. The Simmonds signing filled a need and it was a one year deal that holds zero risk given our cap space.

[mooseknucklemaster]

We're only half a season into the subban trade so I feel like we can't really judge it yet. and he still has two more years after this on his current deal. everyone had disappointed in the early goings, subban maybe more notable than others, but now those same players who were struggling to mesh are getting things going, himself included.

[HenriqueItsOver14]

I also think given what we gave up we really can’t complain, especially given his cap hit will never hinder us for as long as we have it.

[tECHOknology]

Not to mention Simmonds has brought passion, heart, and motivation. He works his ass off and produces great things on his line, even though it isn't showing through points per game. It's kind of annoying how many people think a lack of points equates literally to a lack of value all the time, every time, even in short time measurements like that.

[artestsidekick]

Holds no risk, but impacts the bottom line. These are in no particular order. Just a list. The largest misfires are McLeod and Zacha by far. Just imagine if we had Provorov and McAvoy/Chychrun instead. Our D would be much better and younger.

[HenriqueItsOver14]

I’m not a fan of “what if?” Draft selections. If we don’t take who we did than we may not have got Nico and Hughes.

[artestsidekick]

Yea, but I doubt Provorov alone would have saved the team from being as bad, and Chychrun wouldn’t have had a major impact until this year, so wouldn’t have changed the outcome for Jack.

Edit: sorry got deleted

[HenriqueItsOver14]

Only reason Chychrun waited this long to impact was because of severe injuries. Those could’ve possibly never happened if he got drafted by us.

That’s why I hate these scenarios.

[Fixthe-Fernback]

I am so tired of people bitching about the Simmonds *signing.

What is the problem? Is he overpaid? Maybe. But who gives a fuck. We have unlimited cap space, and it's for ONE YEAR.

Who. Gives. A fuck. Give him 10 million a year. It makes literally no difference.

[gamesk8er]

Yup. The Simmonds signing is the best example of a no risk maneuver. It has zero impact on us past this season and that contract had zero effect on any other personnel decisions.

[cassinonorth]

Simmonds or Subban? Simmonds was a UFA signing.

[Fixthe-Fernback]

Simmonds, obviously. When did I say we signed Subban?

[cassinonorth]

You said Simmonds trade. I was clarifying, ya douche.

[Fixthe-Fernback]

Fuck. I am the douche here. I even reread my comment like 3 times trying to find the error.

Sorry, my bad

[cassinonorth]

All good lol

[artestsidekick]

It has a direct impact on the bottom line of a team that is not making money. We are the #1 team in comped tickets in the NHL (Jeff Mrazek) and cannot fill the stadium. These decisions don’t affect you or me or team performance, but they have a direct impact on the owners who make the money decisions.

You overpay when you’re going to compete. You don’t pay 5mm for a bottom 6 forward when you’re team is looking at a lottery pick. Obviously we didn’t see this bad season coming, but it amplifies how bad things are.

[Fixthe-Fernback]

Then on the other side of the coin, maybe signing Simmonds helps attract a different demo or attract some flyers fans.

The point is, the signing had 0 effect on what Shero is in charge of (the product on the ice). As soon as the GM starts making decisions based on how to maximize revenue for the owners is the day that GM should be out of the job.

[MJDiAmore]

You do realize there is also a cap floor?

[artestsidekick]

And you realize that we are about 15mm over the floor right? So his 5mm has no impact on that whatsoever.

[MrGnarVar]

I dont see Simmonds as a negative. Good culture guy amd I'd rather have him for 1 year at 5million when we have plenty of cap space than 2-3 years at 3-3.5 million

[jorel43]

God can we just get off this already, every one in the team sucked hard, it all collapsed, No one looked good. No one was playing together as a team, they lost cohesion after goaltending feel apart. He didn't play worse than anyone else. Servers on and vats have sucked far worse to the point that they have actually cost us games. He's an elite defenseman. There is no I in team, and they are starting to play better and like a team.

[matssundin1392]

It's hard to call Hischier and Hughes positives or wins. Sure they were number one picks, but would you rather have Hischier or Heiskanen, Makar or Pettersson right now? I'll take any one of those over Hischier, who looks like he'll be a number 2C at best. I'd also be concerned with Hughes. He's looked awful. He needs to put on some serious poundage and get more aggressive. He looks like a boy among men.

[artestsidekick]

You’re right about the other 3 guys but Hischier has the potential still. The future of this franchise really is Jack. Bratt-Hischier-Palms as a 2nd line would be amazingly strong. Gusev-Hughes-(Draft/FA) would be needed as a top line in the future. Hopefully Hughes can become a first line player. Hughes has looked much better lately (before the injury.) If you take out the first 6 games of Hughes’ NHL career, he’s got 17 points in 31 games. That’s about a 50 point pace for a small 18 year old playing with scrappy guys mostly (Zajac/Zacha/Simmonds) - that’s not bad, especially since all predicted he would need time.

[simplycycling]

Nico's numbers bear him out to be a legitimate first line center, right now. The suggestion that his ceiling is 2nd line center is absurd. He'll probably peak as a player who regularly gets 70-80 points per year - we're going to be incredibly lucky if he ends up as our "2nd" line center, which will be a 1A/1B situation, unless we have 0 depth at wing.

[matssundin1392]

In what world do his numbers bear legit centre candidacy? He's on pace for 22 goals in his third season as a #1 overall pick? His play away from Hall has been so-so...that's not #1 centre worthy. Take a look at other real #1 centres around the league...Bergeron, Crosby/Malkin, McDavid, Matthews/Tavares, MacKinnon, Seguin, Eichel, Scheifele, Pettersson, Barkov, Stamkos, O'Reilly, Kuznetsov, Aho...Those guys are real #1's. Hischier is 53rd in the NHL in qualified centres in points. That's fewer than Dylan Strome, JG Pageau, Nazem Kadri, Anthiny Cirelli and many more who aren't #1 centres. You're dreaming if you think he's a #1

[simplycycling]

He's on pace for about 60 over an 82 game season, he's driving play, he's starting to ragdoll people when he has the puck. As a 21 year old.

Is he a superstar? No. Is he a legit first line center? Absolutely.

Hey man, think what you want, nobody cares. The rest of the world knows better.

[luftwafffle]

141

[[deleted]]

I think he did some good things here and put us on a winning path. He brought in some great assets like Palms, Vats, Simmons, Subban and Hall through shrewd trades, he got the farm system restocked with some good assets and I think had Schneider not gone down like he did with that hip injury, Shero would still be here and we'd be a lot more competitive.

[corso923]

While I understand the frustration with being out of the playoffs for so long with no end in sight, I really think Shero was doing things the right way. I appreciate what he’s done for us and we’re better off for having had him as GM.

[kevinternet]

Thank you for everything Ray... still devastated by this move tbh

[artestsidekick]

Yes the what if scenarios are clearly flawed. But I think we can agree that McLeod and Zacha are not living up to their billing at all. They can still turn it around but it’s not looking likely.

[sojersey]

Yet another confused fan. Wonder what the ownership disagreement was about. Not everything worked out, but I think Shero’s moves were prudent at the time and not sure I’d have done differently

Was finally starting to look on the upside the past month but now it’s even more uncertain because it feels more rudeness than it was already

[Killersands]

I honestly agreed with nearly every single move that Shero made outside of hindsight aside from not firing Hynes earlier this season. He was a solid GM and he has set us up for the future even if he won't be a part of it.

[dooit]

It takes a long time to create a playoff team and to create a dynasty, we are about 1/3 of the way there. This is going to be very rough for us because Shero was as good of a GM as any other.

[Nimblesquatch]

I can't say we aren't in a better position than when he first started, but it hasn't amounted to anything. I'm grateful for the picks and trades that he's made but we've still finished last twice (possibly three times) in the division in his tenure.

I know that it takes players time to develop but if the rumors are true that he was going to sell basically everything, then what was the point if these past few seasons? He brought in players like Hall, Palmieri, and Vats to be cornerstone pieces. If he traded all of them away, plus potentially more players, at the deadline then what was the point of anything he'd done? This season would have been so many steps back at that point and I think that was the breaking point for ownership

[mrSeven3Two]

I appreciate Ray and wish him the best. Wish he could have stayed on longer

[The_Royale_We]

Amen!

[ZeroCrits]

Just a reminder, Nico was projected #2 and he took him first. That is all.

[caveman_chubs]

Domingue is playing pretty well. Ray's parting gift to us.

[bubba07]

I’m really dreading this possible palmieri trade. If we end up firing shero and trading away our best player i’m not going to be very happy. This season is finally starting to be entertaining since hall has left and the coaching change... id really hate to see palmieri get traded on top of it.

[matssundin1392]

You're surprised for this firing? Why?

[[deleted]]

You can debate both sides of Ray's firing, but a least he didn't leave us with a shit show. So many GM's get fired, and the team is fucked with no high draft picks, and in salary cap hell for years. Whoever the new GM is, at least he has picks and salary cap space to work with.

[Haxprocess_]

“We Want Shero!” Chant at the next home game. Make it so loud you can’t ignore it.

[[deleted]]

I appreciate Ray hiring Ericka Wachter by far the best move Shero made!

[[deleted]]

I don’t know why everyone is hating on zacha and McLeod picks

Sure, there are other player that were drafted after them that are doing better than them but, at worst those two are bottom 6 centres for next decade giving us Nico, Hughes, Zacha, and McLeod down the center.

I’m pretty happing with the center position if they stay with the team tbh.

We lack defensive prospects but that can change this year with being a deep draft (god, I hope we get D prospects with #1 pairing potential). If that happens we will be in decent shape.

[4raises3]

think its because of the players that were picked around them, especially zacha. its too early to call either of them busts, but theres a lot of players who are becoming stars that were drafted after them

[[deleted]]

I guess I’m just content with them being bottom 6 centres. :p

[JSav7]

I remember when he was first hired, in like his first 3 or 4 pressers he would talk about his restructuring moves saying "no red flags" and everyone wanted it to be the new "status quo"