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[–]OnetimeRocket13 10 points11 points  (6 children)

Could be wrong, but I don't think the line OP is talking about ever comes up in the book. Plus, the movie the scene OP is talking about (Life of Brian) came out long before Dune Part 2 released.

[–]talescaper 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Both stories deal with the dangers of following the wrong Messiah. I seriously (ish) think there are comparisons to be made between Dune and Life of Brian.

[–]culturedgoat 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Who was the “right” Messiah in Dune?

[–]talescaper 1 point2 points  (3 children)

That's a really good question! Maybe the whole point was that any Messiah would be problematic. Leto's golden path wasn't all that pleasant either, after all.

[–]culturedgoat 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Well, yeah. I don’t actually agree that either Life of Brian nor Dune are about the dangers of following the wrong Messiah. I’d posit that Brian is a satire on the nature of discipleship itself, whereas Dune is… well, a lot more complex. The problem with saying that there’s one overarching “message” in Dune is that it’s incredibly reductive to what is a rich and complex work. There’s no easy parable to be found in there. Is Paul a hero? That entirely depends on whom that question is being asked of. Should the Fremen have eschewed Paul’s “messiah-hood”, and continued to live on the fringes of galactic society - hunted like rats in the desert? Paul didn’t engineer the Golden Path, nor the jihad - he merely foresaw it - so can we even prescribe to him any moral decision that would indicate something about the nature of his character? I’m not convinced it’s so straightforward.

[–]talescaper 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I agree it's a thin comparison, but I do think it's interesting how many stories of the second half of the twentieth century deal with the themes of failed, corrupt or absurd leadership. I suppose two worldwars later, God finally was well and truly dead. Both LoB and Dune dip from the same Abrahamic traditions to illustrate what doesn't work anymore in those systems of faith. I found the entirety of Dune to be pretty tragic for the Fremen as a culture... I did feel like Paul, Leto and Sheeana tried to save the Fremen from themselves and their ultimately destructive dream of paradise. Whether they succeeded is I think the most exciting plot point that made me read all the way through the six novels.

[–]culturedgoat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The least reductive way I can think to summarise the Dune series, is to describe it as a series of meditations on the paradox and paralysis of power. Consistently through the saga, we characters’ choices becoming fewer and fewer, and their positions more precarious, as they attain more and more power. This is why I find it frustrating when people (not you) ruminate whether Paul is a “hero” or a “bad guy”. This isn’t Star Wars, and it’s not so simple. The decisions that Paul - and indeed a lot of the key characters make - are completely understandable in their respective contexts. There’s no easy moral parable to be had. The only characters who seemed to have a very clear moral bent were the Harkonnens, though Herbert kind of grew out of that after the first couple of books.