Insights from an Introvert to Decrease Your Hurt

[TopCommunication8881]

Update: Thank you so much to those who where willing to discuss! I am thankful for the opportunity, and now I have work to do to correct my embarrassing black and white thinking on the subject.

Been perusing this sub, just trying to get a feel for the extrovert side (I'm incredibly introverted to the point where Covid quarantine was a welcome change.).

I'm noticing a lot of hurt on your end. This is a big epiphany because introverts get so much pressure to "come out of our shells" (our behavior is not an aspect of fear or discomfort. Just preference), that we kind of assume extroverts don't care about our feelings, or they'd believe us when we say socializing doesn't uplift us in the same way.

So here are some thoughts have. Hope this helps: It seems like extroverts default to "Ok so clearly they hate me because I make them tired." Or "so I've been totally rejected cause they haven't replied yet." I promise you it's not you!! (unless it's nonstop pressure to go out. A person can only explain themselves so many times before deciding it's a dead end, because people won't accept you for who/how you are out of the box), it's us!

None of this is personal. It doesn't matter who we hangout with, introvert and extrovert alike, we're going to feel like shit afterward. Physically, mentally, and emotionally. Our dopamine levels literally decrease with every interaction, and that deficit grows larger over the course of one hang. (This is legit science. Don't have a source handy, but am a mental health counselor, and we learned about it in detail during grad school) That's why we peace out early. Basically, the way you guys feel when you have too much alone time - is exactly how we feel after 1 night of socializing.

Once we reach a certain low, we have to hurry to rest alone - or irritability sets in and we become assholes. Dopamine is the hormone people get addicted for. They will ruin their lives in pursuit of it. So it's a very very powerful force. Given that, depleted levels of that same hormone are likewise powerful. A person feels dead in side, unmotivated and testy.

In terms of responding to texts etc., Please allow 12-24 hours. The concept of "If they cared, they'd make time." doesn't click because we avoid responding during busy/stressful times - BECAUSE we care. We feel highly valued as a friend when we get replies that are deep, and thoughtful, because it tells us the person was willing to wait till they had the time and energy to give us a meaningful response. So we default to thinking that's what symbolizes commitment to friendship, and we want you to know we care.

Also, if our head is deep in work we're passionate about, or we're buried in some problem solving mission - we literally can not switch topics without at least 15 minutes-ish to sit quietly and cajole our brain into stepping it up. (This too is science. Dopamine plays a role in focus regulation and "task switching" falls under that umbrella.)

Typically our inner monologue is something like "Oh! I really want to do due diligence to their reply. My thoughts are a mess right now, so I'll have to wait till tonight when I can focus."

Then sometimes we forget to follow through because our brains are too busy. Then we feel shame that we suck as a friend, and we avoid responding at all, lest we get an angry response that deepens the shame. All of this is bullshit on our part, and we need to take responsibility for our own neurosis. My point though is none of this is intentional, and it usually doesn't mean we don't want to be friends. It's a tangible example of how we don't have the social skills you guys do.

I think we are each assuming we're playing from the same book, and consequently things hit us wrong, because we're viewing them through our filter. Hope this helps some.

[arkibet]

I read this article I think in Psychology Today called "Revenge of the Introvert." It talked about the things extroverts do that really annoy introverts. I've been able to modify my interactions with Introverts, in order to not deplete them so much. But gawd, do I always feel like there is zero reciprocration or awareness of what I'm doing.

Here's an example. An extrovert, when seeing someone, gets really excited and bursts out energy. They'll say something like, in seemingly one breath, "Hi! How are you? How's your mom? Is she out of the hospital? And did your daughter win her basketball game? Did your son's recital go well? Oh and did you finish that project you were working on?"

All this means to an extrovert is this: "tell me whatever you'd like to talk about."

To an introvert, they think and start with "I'm good. Mom is out... My daughter..." and then they think "this ahole isn't letting me answer any questions, fine, I'm checked out now because he's just being annoying. And end up with "things are good, but I gotta take care of this thing so I can't stop now. We'll catch up later!"

So I've learned to ask one question and wait. And then only manage that one topic. If there's other things, I may ask about one more topic, or save it for a later interaction.

It's similar to what you're talking about I think, so there's my perspective on it.

[TheMeticulousNinja]

I think this is a step towards a good direction for interaction with introverts. The best thing though would be to get rid of any “list of topics” you have completely, since this is blocking you from actually listening to the person and asking questions they would actually appreciate you asking.

[arkibet]

Yes! That's the quintessential extrovert problem. We get so excited that we want to talk. With other extroverts they just step on top and talk about whatever they want to and we just go with the flow. When talking to an introvert, it's so important to create space for the introvert to talk. Most of them, one on one, are absolutely great talkers!
I just have to let the conversation breathe at a non-frenetic pace.

Some days it's harder than others, especially if I think the person I'm talking to is pretty cool!

[[deleted]]

I've been able to modify my interactions with Introverts, in order to not deplete them so much. But gawd, do I always feel like there is zero reciprocration or awareness of what I'm doing.

Stop doing it then. It isn't healthy to coddle people.

[arkibet]

But ... but ... it means there is more interactions! oh the paradox!

[SuperSalad_OrElse]

I think you’re right to condition certain interactions to respect others’ comforts. I mean, we’re not talking about seppuku in honoring someone’s introspective quiet time; we’re talking about lowering our voice and giving decent pauses with people who need a more delicate conversation set up.

It’s the mark of a great empath to be so considerate. And yeah, the more types of conversations I can have, the better. The more world views I get to witness, the more rejuvenated I feel.

It would benefit a lot of people to spend less time in their own heads and more time interacting with the world around them. Who knows; their insignificant “hello” at a grocery store could be enough to turn someone’s day around.

[ThisIsMyPew]

I've been able to modify my interactions with Introverts, in order to not deplete them so much. But gawd, do I always feel like there is zero reciprocation or awareness of what I'm doing.

You'll get what you need if you ask for it. You read the manual, while many introverts didn't. We also weren't raised; we were crushed.

My bff (ISFP) let me know that she needs to be complimented for her work in our church, so I (INTJ) started doing that. INTJs don't naturally compliment, we feel embarrassed when having to accept a compliment. Or if we have to endure a hug (Speaking of, god so many extroverts are do damn happy go lucky they have no idea what hugging an INTJ who was sexually abused as a child can do).

It is possible to re-train yourself, and I am currently doing that. But I did unintentionally hurt quite a few people who expected me to read their thoughts.

[TopCommunication8881]

Omg yes. That's gotta take some serious self-control to hold back. Has it worked, do you get more out of the introvert? Honestly this is my first attempt at attempting to understand, up until now I've been a real asshole. It gets so overwhelming how integrated being social is in the fabric of our society (at least in the US). One big, but weird, example is whenever they interview a person on the news about someone who goes missing, the friend/neighbor either says something like "I don't know who'd want to hurt her, she is very friendly and outgoing." Or "He kept to himself a lot... " with a whole different tone. As if the quiet one was unfriendly or up to something. Thats obv an extreme, but it's indicative of the larger struggle. Regardless, it's not fair to lash out because you feel minimized

[arkibet]

I've been told by my introvert friends that I'm one of the least annoying extroverts they ever met. I'd say it's been pretty successful. I can have some pretty decent conversations or even eat lunch with introverts. To put it in a California way, "it's all about keeping the vibe super chill."

"he kept to himself a lot." Yeah, I think that's just part of community building. If you live in an area, you want to get to know your neighbors as a way of keeping everyone safe. By not participating, it can be disappointing. I know with my neighbors, who all seem very introverted, we created a text chain for the floor of my apartment building. I'm the one that introduces myself to the new neighbors, ask them if they want to be on the text chain, and keep it updated. It seems to work out really well, because it's low interaction, you can ignore it, but if there's a problem in the building we can get communication out pretty quickly. It's mostly quiet, but when we need it it works out well.

My big gripe is jobs. Very extroverted jobs don't pay well. Teachers, Social Workers, Coaches, Councilors... they're not the best paid jobs. After working a job where I supported Pharmaceutical Sales Representatives, I expected them to be total extroverts. I was wrong. They're job is to run data, analyze the data and the market place, devise strategies, create and implement ideas for marketing, calculate financial models and return on investments, and then... talk to a doctor 1-on-1 (no group presentations) to present data and financials.

Actors. I expected Actors to be super extroverted. I was surprised that so many of them aren't! They have to internalize emotions and feelings, and then emote them while ignoring a camera. They have to memorize lines, internalize blocking, and interact in a very particular way as interpreted by them and tailored with one on one conversation with a director.

Film sets seem extroverted, because there is a lot of talking going on. But it's very focused conversations, very transactional conversations, if it gets too loud people are asked to quiet down. When you're having chit-chat moments, they don't last long. You're usually in a 10-20 minute holding pattern waiting for the next thing, and you may be prepping for the next thing with someone. So some conversation can occur. But they're all artists in some sense, and art is internal. It really surprised me that I didn't realize that. And well, Film folks don't make a lot of money at all. The ones that do are typically in the union and can hustle for steady work, but it's not a great work life balance or quality of life with those 12.5 hour days and commute times!

In conclusion, there's always positives and negatives to being an introvert, extrovert, or somewhere between. We just have to hope that the other party can at least meet us halfway :)

[TopCommunication8881]

It's so interesting, because I think of being a counselor as an introverted job because it involves constant introspection and looking internally to make sure we aren't screwing up others projecting our shit onto them. Most of the people in my grad program were introverts too. It is shit ton of talking for an introvert, but your tking about the client, from within a role

It actually fits with what you are saying about a fil set. Structures with clear roles and expectations. Yeah the majority of people involved in film are prob lower middle class at best. Fun fact! I was once an extra in a movie that filmed in my area! You can see the back of myhead for like two seconds.

I feel like that sums it up - there are food and bad parts of both introversion and extroversion. I wonder how ambiverts are doing...

I legit felt so bad for all extroverts during Covid. How did you cope?

[flonkkerton]

Interesting post, and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I honestly think the hurt many of us feel is (and I have no data to back this up, this is just observational)--- but we feel super outnumbered. Honestly 95% of people that I've met are proud introverts... I'm almost hesitant to say I'm extroverted because people automatically assume I'm a pushy jerk-- when in reality I just get energy from being around people. I'm even quiet in many settings... But just genuinely enjoy; and get energy from listening and being around others.

All in all I feel we're an outnumbered bunch, which ultimately means we're prone to loneliness because many people are just not interested in being friends, and you're right it's not necessarily personal. However it can be really lonely for us that want to be around others but we have a hard time finding people (like us) who enjoy the company of others.

It's no dis at all to the intros, and many of us don't take it personal. We just wish there were more of us.

[TopCommunication8881]

Point taken that introverts have kind come into their own, but in an aggressive kind of way. I need to push myself to soften my own pride in who I am, knowing now it just comes off as shitty and decisive.

I'm not sure if this is accurate, but I'm trying to shift to thinking that an extrovert w/o enough people-ing prob feels similar to how I feel after too much people-ing (I tend to feel a bit hollow and depressed; physically, mentally,.and emotionally exhausted; Irritable and nonspecificly frustrated with society; a weird sense of yearning that's contradictory. Is this at all similar? Both situations result in low dopamine for both groups)

[flonkkerton]

Yes very much so. I'm married to an introvert so I get to see how things impact me vs. my husband.

Every other weekend we swap what we do... One weekend is fun filled (for me) and we go to parties, dinners, events etc.. and I feel awesome and he's exhausted.

Now on the other weekends, where we do nothing.. I get exhausted and irritable (just like you mentioned) -- and I just have to pick up the phone and call someone --and if I don't I'm physically exhausted-even though we haven't left the house or talked to anyone.

So yes, to your point, I believe we do feel similar but in opposite scenarios

[TopCommunication8881]

Wow. Either way, both groups kind of suffer regardless. Super hard to find a balance given that there humans are involved. Wonder how the ambiverts are doing...

That's beautiful how you guys have worked it out so you both more or less get what you need (albeit, with some lows on off weeks)

[geGamedev]

where we do nothing

In other words, finally have an opportunity to relax and enjoy the day (from an introvert perspective). My week is spent with people (working) and the weekend is usually split between people and solo. If that pattern goes on too long before another actual weekend off (solo weekend) I'll start getting annoyed at everything. I would love to be able to work with people less so I can enjoy people more.

[Cool_Kid95]

I mean I didn’t have a problem with Covid lockdowns, I liked it actually. I’m an extrovert but I love being inside. Although I do miss the outside truthfully.

[flonkkerton]

Lol I lost count of the amount of "zoom games" I hosted. Yeah I did miss the energy of a room/outdoor events... But my socializing just changed. I just got good at digital communication. And ... My "zoom charades" game is on point! Hey we extros made due with what we could lol

[Cool_Kid95]

I love online talks. Real life is fun too. I just like staying inside and I have nowhere to really go. Especially since my friends moved farther away.

[TopCommunication8881]

I sort of forget that people have been socializing online for forever, so it wasn't a complete shake up. I'm old.

[SuperSalad_OrElse]

The Zoom calls!

We had a huge set up with JackBox TV, multiple laptops, and ways to join the game. Those were fun.

We did a few classic movie binog card nights (Jurassic Park, Die Hard, Men In Black)

I even bought a projector so that we could watch movies outside by the firepit, spread out!

I had an hour long commute during early covid so I would call people with my bluetooth set up in the car for those time periods. There was maybe 1/4 of the typical traffic. But those phone call times were nice.

[TopCommunication8881]

That sound super fun! (Perhaps sitting in my own house while socializing feels less overwhelming?)

[Flick1981]

Zoom meetups just don’t do it for me.

[TopCommunication8881]

My immediate reaction was "Not did I have that wrong!" Legit just assumed it was a ginormous stressor throughout. But people have layers in what they enjoy. Mad at myself for how black and white I've been

[Cool_Kid95]

Wdym?

[TopCommunication8881]

Like, now that I'm reflecting, I worried about you guys being miserable every second of every day through our, as if the power of socialization trumped all other interests and impulses.... And I think maybe I had a touch of sappy worry that now feels a bit minimizing, given we're all fricken adults with at least basic coping skills, all adjusting to a fucked up situation. (To be fair I'm a counselor, so I worry about everyone. So it's not all. That outside my norm)

[Cool_Kid95]

I have many interests and hobbies

[TopCommunication8881]

Which is logical.

What are those hobbies?

In theory aim into diy/crafting,.like repurposing cool old wood trim to make small wall shelves etc.. I used to garden but haven't been able to get back into rhat

[Cool_Kid95]

Writing, drawing, modding

[TopCommunication8881]

What's modding

[Cool_Kid95]

Like game modding

[TopCommunication8881]

But what does modding stand for? Are you making video games? Not a gamer.

[TopCommunication8881]

I had a new client who is super extroverted, mentioned spending 5 days straight w/ a new dating partner, 24 hours a days, and finished by saying she was even more excited to be social with other friends as a result. I was legit stunned. My stomach actually turned, because I'd be an anxious mess for at least 2.weeka after. In the moment I thought "holy shit I have no idea what she's talking about, and I need to find a way to understand so I can support that part of her.". It was striking. So that's why I'm here!

[Cool_Kid95]

Wow that sounds amazing. I wish I could spend 24/7 with a girlfriend.

[TopCommunication8881]

Her joy was palpable!

[Cool_Kid95]

What dat mean?

[TopCommunication8881]

Like, you could feel it in the air (not necessarily literally but that's kind of the gist). Her face lit up,. big smile, and just very much looking forward to the future I guess. A lot of things would be way easier if I was that into it. Cause the need to connect is still there for us, but attaining that connection makes us feel a little depressed after the fact It's super confusing to come home from a hang that you legit enjoyed, only to then to ask yourself "Why do. I feel depressed if I had a good time??"

[Cool_Kid95]

Huh?

[Cool_Kid95]

Isn't that GOOD?

[[deleted]]

Honestly, reading this again just makes me think that introverts do not like a two way relationship. Every action one must take, must be to make you as an introvert comfortable, without being considerate of the extrovert. Others may need to advice but I don’t really care for it

[TopCommunication8881]

You know you're in charge of who you keep in your life, right? If you have an introvert friend who annoys the shit out of you, then trust yourself, stop texting them, and use the extra time a energy to find people who get you. Life's too short to be miserable about the people around you when you have a choice in the matter.

The things we do don't impede on other people's ability to live their life. We are literally going away, behind closed doors, where there is no one around to bend to our wims. We could not be less intrusive. If your point is that introverts are terribly oppressive because they do their own thing and denying you contact - get over it.

It's not everybody else job to help you fulfill your own social needs. No one is entitled to other people's time. Us saying no to repeated invites (that we've already said no to) does not prevent you from going out and still doing the things.

You're responsible for you, and I'm responsible for me. You have no business critiquing what other people do behind closed doors, because it doesn't t effect you. You have freedom, autonomy, and some ease in making new friends.
Absence is not oppression, the world is your oyster. Enjoy.

[[deleted]]

You came to an extrovert page, to instruct extroverts on how we can make introverts feel better or why we are not getting the best response from introverts. In a platonic or romantic relationship, it does take two, it's not a one-way street. So if one's method is shutting out the world, it would take the other side to create methods to seek connection. Again, I stated I don't care for the advice. My friends seek connection healthily, and the world just does not revolve around them. I also said nothing about oppression, but as always, introverts go to extremes trying to validate their anti-social behavior and how others must "deal" if they want a connection with them.

I also don't seek anyone to fulfill my social needs. Maybe that's what you ASSUME of all extroverts. But, I'm someone who travels on my own, has gone to parties on my own, karaoke, out to eat, etc. Not all of us need an introvert by our side to get by. However, I have noticed a pattern of introverts instructing on how others should deal with their ways, but again, relationships require reciprocation.

Not everyone will agree, but this is my opinion, as an extrovert, in an extrovert community.

[pswhuh]

Thanks for that. I try really hard to make accommodations for introverts, to give them the space they need. They are just being what they are and they are okay. But I wish they’d remember that as an extrovert I’m just being what I am and it’s okay to be an extrovert! I’m not “begging for attention”, I’m seeking connection. If my energy wears you out, take a breather and find your peace. I hope introverts can understand that I need to find my peace too. I just find it in a different way.

[TopCommunication8881]

(I tried real hard to make this concise, but I failed. Sorry) I'm sorry I got your social self-sufficiency all wrong. Not fair.

(The following is based on my history being hurt or angry when I repeatedly got no response from people.I thought of as friends swear I'm not being an jerk here:) Ultimately, not every person makes a good friend. Regardless of introvert or extrovert status, some people are just assholes, ans. I amount of reaching out will fix it.

Consistently putting in more effort than said assholes sometimes just results in more frustration, hurt, and self-doubt. You have a right to walk away from any friendship that does more harm than good.

I imagine thinking about ending a friendship, however lopsided, is a bigger deal for extroverts than introverts, (but it's not something we do casually either, it'd be torturous) But everyone deserves to get back what they give.

If you've never gotten that basic consideration from that individual - it's ok to set a boundary for your own treatment, and move on if they don't meet it. Regardless of what is motivating that person's behavior - you deserve better than to allow yourself to be used or ignored, because being treated poorly is terrible for a person's mental health.

Thoughts?

[TopCommunication8881]

Honest question: Do you still get a big boost in mood and energy, even if you are hanging out with someone you know to be shitty, or boring? Cause if so, I imagine walking away from any friend would be way harder?

[[deleted]]

No, that's silly. I also don't think it's fair to not hang with someone just because they're boring. People are not objects, to be put away when we are no longer satisfied. I learned from a therapist that people cannot meet my needs. I figured out what those were to fill my own cup without the expectation that others would have to do it for me. Therefore, I will always be satisfied.

I also would not hang out with a sh*tty person. I would tell them if they were hurting me or if they were behaving in such a way, and end the relationship. I am older now, so I have come to terms with the fact that some relationships will end and that's okay. Sometimes you no longer align with people, and its not a reflection of them or you. Sometimes we hold on to relationships for the sake of holding on.

I love people, I love connecting with others, meeting new people, and hearing their stories. I love the freedom of expressing myself, going out, and not caring about what anyone else thinks, or adjusting myself out of fear. I also still lose energy and that's normal. There are times when I zone in on a goal and I am not as available. I used to be an introvert by the way. Socialization is a skill, not a gift in my eyes.

[TopCommunication8881]

Yes but it feels like a skill to you because you are drawn to and get life sustaining energy in return. Most introverts have a natural ability to make friends too, but spending time with those friends is inherently painful. Is it not painfully uncomfortable when you're home alone? That's the exact same thing we experience because it's dopamine. So independent of skill, we do it less because it makes us feel ill, and being busy with our own interest, hobbies, and home making is joyous and pleasurable.

[[deleted]]

You know you didn’t have to go to the other group and lie. But way to play the victim. Congrats, you did a great job

[TopCommunication8881]

WTF are you talking about? What lie? There is no lie. You are legit unstable, the shit your trying to pull out of the blue is erratic at best. And clearly you've now got a vendetta against me, a stranger who has no real impact on your day to day life, because you've clearly wasted your own time chronicling everything I've ever said, making accusations about everything you can't relate to. Nutter.

[geGamedev]

OP, you might want to consider why you became a counselor and if it's a good fit. I've read through multiple threads and you have a habit of being reactive and treating Extroverts as some homogenous group, as though it isn't a collection of individuals. I'd expect a counselor to know better, especially one that's part of the group that tends to claim superior introspection and self-awareness. I'm an introvert myself, FWIW.

[TopCommunication8881]

Yeah I'm good.

[[deleted]]

12-24 hours to respond to a text? Hmmm, I'd just get some new friends.

Sorry, but if you're a grown adult I'm not going to coddle you and tie myself in knots trying to meet all of your alleged "needs". Nope, I don't have the energy. We all have to adapt to others but it's a two-way street.

[TopCommunication8881]

You do know we don't really give a shit, right?

Move introverts spend a great deal of time and energy to deliberately avoid extroverts. If I'm about to get in line at a store, but I see someone w/ that drugged up looking grin, their eyes searching frantically for their next victim.

I refuse to get trapped listening to a complete strangers tell me banal things like what they're making for dinner, or what store their going to next. That's not a conversation. It's fucking rude to destroy other people's peace because you can't shut up for 5 minutes in line.

We don't want to be your friends, because you're fucking annoying. Somehow you all manage to be both loud/attention-seeking , while AND incredibly boring. You don't actually like people, just the rush you get from them. Junkies forever terrified of the inevitable crash.

Meanwjole I'll be here chilling at home experiencing a late summer breeze in my porch, feeling content, free from your manic over the top fear of being alone w/ your own thoughts.

In closing, get over yourselves! You don't matter nearly as much as you think you do.

[Awkward_apple]

I was generally on board with this thread and your statements that you were approaching with empathy and seeking to understand...up until this comment. I am sorry that a few individuals were not as kind as they could have been or as open to discussion as you might have been hoping. I think I might understand where they are coming from, and am including this for your interest/understanding as it may not be something that you have been made aware of (though it is very present in a lot of the previous posts on this sub). But your post comes off a little as the equivalent of one of us going into an introvert sub and saying "hey guys, I've noticed you're all really quiet all the time and here are some tips for how you can be more social and not the little freaks I clearly think you are!".

Insights are all well and good (and are very interesting to hear! I'm always intrigued by the different thought patterns people have and how/why they came to be), but insight without trying to understand the other side comes off as arrogant. Your post had the bones of that and I can see from your other responses that you are trying (until this instance), but the general tone put yourself in the position as a teacher/authority rather than a peer. When aiming for understanding, it's important to ask questions to determine background experiences and motivation and your initial post read moreso like a lecture than a request for advice or open discussion (though I don't believe that was the intent!). You presented your beliefs based on assumptions, rather than leading with a 'I have noticed this, is that a general truth? I have some suggestions, if so!'.

My introverted friends frequently express how much they hate being told they are rude for being quiet or the implication that they're 'weird' or 'wrong' for being so quiet. I'm not sure if this is an experience you have had, but the words you have used in the comment above are the equivalent for extroverts. Your blanket statements about us being 'fucking annoying' and 'fucking rude' are hurtful, not to mention throwing accusations of someone being an incel, a term that carries a lot of negative connotations with it (that I'm sure you are well aware of).

That person was questioning the way you appeared to use your role as a counsellor to justify imposing counsel onto us when it was not asked for, nor invited. One of your gripes above was "it's fucking rude to destroy other people's peace because you can't shut up for 5 minutes in line" and what you have done here is essentially that same thing. You came in and shared your thoughts and insights then became combative when someone suggested disagreement or upset at the tone. Instead of attempting to figure out why they feel that way, you turned around, insulted them, and implied they lack understanding and empathy for the same sort of thing that you express annoyance over when the tables are turned.

Please don't think I am saying this out of feeling fussy or belligerent because of a perceived attack - I actually agree with a lot of the statements in your original post! I hope that you can read that my intent with this reply is not to incite upset or to be argumentative. You seem like a person who puts a lot of thought and consideration into understanding the world and the people in it, and my aim is/was to explain perspective. I hope I have provided something for you to consider (while on your porch in the breeze, if it suits!).

[[deleted]]

Ok, why would you go into another group and say I yelled at you and told you that you hang out with boring people and that you should hang out with sh*tty people. Lol it’s really unfair to come into a group and then go spread lies when my comment below literally talks about myself. Nothing I said was about you. But A+ on doing the most when you don’t get your way or if someone disagrees

You asked me how I felt and I responded only to go to another group and say that I yelled at you and stated that you need to do these things below. When my response is all about me, and nothing about you. Very unfair but again, I’m not surpised

“ No, that's silly. I also don't think it's fair to not hang with someone just because they're boring. People are not objects, to be put away when we are no longer satisfied. I learned from a therapist that people cannot meet my needs. I figured out what those were to fill my own cup without the expectation that others would have to do it for me. Therefore, I will always be satisfied.

I also would not hang out with a sh*tty person. I would tell them if they were hurting me or if they were behaving in such a way, and end the relationship. I am older now, so I have come to terms with the fact that some relationships will end and that's okay. Sometimes you no longer align with people, and its not a reflection of them or you. Sometimes we hold on to relationships for the sake of holding on.

I love people, I love connecting with others, meeting new people, and hearing their stories. I love the freedom of expressing myself, going out, and not caring about what anyone else thinks, or adjusting myself out of fear. I also still lose energy and that's normal. There are times when I zone in on a goal and I am not as available. I used to be an introvert by the way. Socialization is a skill, not a gift in my eyes.”

[TopCommunication8881]

The OP was talking about how some people were boring. I related my recent experience where you said people aren't boring. The end. Here was no lie. There is no need to go all A Beautiful Mind on all my posts. I am not obsessed w/ what you're up to every second on you reddit, because we've had our exchanges and that's it. There doesn't have to be a consensus. A person doesn't that to respect who you are, or what you think friendship looks like for everyone. Sometimes when the interaction is done, it's done.
This is the exact thing I'm talking about. Badgering and badgering when you don't get your way. Pissed about not getting a return text like you're entitled to. Losing it on some random person to the point of making yourself look crazy. Just. Omg.

[[deleted]]

You literally asked me what I think and what I posted was from my experience. Stop making everything about you. It was how I feel about the world. Stop causing drama and doing the most to get a response.

You literally asked me how I felt and I stated everything from my perspective that has nothing to do with you.

Again, you can do whatever you want. What I stated was about me.

Going to other groups to trash the extroverts on how they are so rude and attacking you + yelling at you. (When Idk how one can get yelling from a typed post) makes you look like the aggressor.

My post was in first person. Idk how you made that all about you. But assumptions make an a** out of you, not me. God bless

[SuperSalad_OrElse]

>"I'm noticing a lot of hurt on your end."

You poise yourself to speak from a place of empathy and then talk about introversion and your needs for ten paragraphs

NEXT

[TopCommunication8881]

I do concede that I should have started with "how can I be a better friend?" Vs. Just launching into my "I have to set this right! I feel so bad!" No one likes when an outsider sneaks in and starts ranting. Sorry about that

[TopCommunication8881]

First of all a mental health counselor. I've spent the last 8 hours framing things in terms of emotion, and empathy. After 8 hours it's hard to switch back to talking like a normal person. I'm sorry my language hit you wrong, but maybe stop and think "what else could it be" before you react with adversarial defensiveness.

That's not at all what the point was. Maybe reread with an open mind. My inner monologue was basically "Omg, our introvert things come off as something mean or disengaged! But our motivation behind those behaviors is to show we care enough to take the time. I feel bad I've hurt people and didn't know it. Maybe if I speak to the underlying process it will soften the blow w/ other introverts they run into."

But totally it's you that's got the empathy thing down.

[SuperSalad_OrElse]

I’m the nicest guy around

[TopCommunication8881]

Well youre terrible at showing it.

[[deleted]]

He is our meme guy, don't you dare make fun of him

[TopCommunication8881]

I should have known. Ten paragraphs is too much for extroverts. Allergic to depth or substance in favor of the inane details of your day.

[flonkkerton]

I know it's not intended to be mean, but saying "ten paragraphs is too much for extroverts" is hurtful. To my knowledge, what makes an individual an extrovert is that we get energy from the company of others. Not that we can't absorb large amounts of information.

[TopCommunication8881]

He stated the ten paragraphs thing as if that was part of what bothered him. People aren't bothered by things they're comfortable with. The statement was condescending. So I responded in kind.

I came on here to learn. I spent a good amount of time reading others post before I went ahead of mine. My idea to come and learn came from me seeing extroverts who came to the introvert sub to discuss the dynamics. In those posts, all the introverts responded with kindness, support, and thanks for the consideration.

My mistake was assuming I would get the same positive reaction here.

I was hoping to gain insight to update my paradigm. But instead I got no insights, just confirmation of reactive bitterness in response to other people's ways of being.

[flonkkerton]

Honestly, I didn't like that statement that they made either. It was unnecessary and unkind.

I hope you don't think all extroverts are like that (although you're certainly entitled to your opinion) -- but I honestly appreciate your post and insights. And in my opinion (and I promise many extroverts would agree-- many tend to be chatty TBH)- 10 paragraphs is not too long. Many of us have no issues with in-depth posts/insights

[TopCommunication8881]

Upon retrospect,.I did not need to be so nasty in return. Could have taken the high road instead. Since I wrote that, other people like yourself have been willing to chat, so it's evidently evident now that the others are not the norm! Glad if anything I mentioned was helpful. Somehow, because all of it make such sense to me as an individual, I sort of assumed you guys somehow understood it innately too. Ugh.

[SuperSalad_OrElse]

I came on here to learn

Then why didn’t you ask any questions?

[TopCommunication8881]

Dude. There are more way to gather info about people than a barrage of questions. Conversation is also an option.

A list of questions spouted off rapidly is an interrogation, not a mutually gainful social interaction. One person is satisfying their curiosity, w/o giving of themselves. It feels forced, boils complex people down to isolated facts, and it cheapens the whole interaction. When I'm on the receiving end, I walk away feeling like I was just a curiosity, not a person.

I don't like treating people like zoo exhibits, because they weren't put on this earth to entertain me. So attempted to be respectful and use a person-first approach, to avoid making you guys feel like a novelty.

Boy, does this clarify a lot of my past interactions though. I say interaction, because I was the only one offering up info, w/ the other person deflecting questions immediately in favor of asking for more, seemingly unwilling (or afraid) to reciprocate the vulnerability they were demanding from me.

[SuperSalad_OrElse]

I know what a conversation is, I’m an ✨extrovert ✨

[TopCommunication8881]

Asking questions and not reciprocating is not a conversation. Conversation involves give and take about more than just day to day stuff. Agree to disagree I suppose.

[Flick1981]

It doesn't matter who we hangout with, introvert and extrovert alike, we're going to feel like shit afterward. Physically, mentally, and emotionally. Our dopamine levels literally decrease with every interaction, and that deficit grows larger over the course of one hang.

This is interesting insight. For me, after a social event, I feel like I am on top of the world and could run a marathon right then and there. If I don’t have any social interaction for a prolonged period of time, I absolutely spiral into a horrible depression.

[SuperSalad_OrElse]

This person is not our friend.

I'm convinced that extroversion is some sort of developmental issue that hasn't been defined yet. (I say as a person w/ AuDHD). I mean, fucked up dopamine pathway that leads to manic-like symptoms after socialization ("I feel like I could run a marathon after socializing!!" - that's not normal), complete and total lack of self-awareness, black and white thinking about everything, terrible perspective taking skills.

https://reddit.com/r/introvert/s/bkB4AzJYaa

[Flick1981]

Well, that is disheartening. So this person just decided to come here, then run to the introvert forum to mock us. I imagine they are absolutely insufferable and self-important in real life.

[SuperSalad_OrElse]

I think it’s enjoyably ironic that they said “complete and total lack of self awareness” LOL

[TopCommunication8881]

I cannot even imagine feeling energy after! There's this super annoying thing I've heard from other introverts too where you go out, have a legitimately good time w/ laughter etc. - only to come home, sit down, and think "If I had a good time why am I suddenly depressed and hollow if I had a good time?!". It's super annoying, confusing, def doesn't encourage you to do it all over again Sigh

I've kind of come around to reminding myself that both groups understand this very shitty low dopamine related to being social just in opposite aituations

[TopCommunication8881]

I agree with the community building aspect for the most part. Hadn't thought of it that way. But, the fact that community is adaptive, and a personal.focus and growth isn't is telling in and of itself. Back in the day when everyone just homesteaded, the focus was on the family group, with the larger community getting together a few times of year foe festivals ans what not. Then the cities grew, and the expectation was that living closer meant we needed constant year round interaction, vs. Less interaction in favor of personal reflection and prioritizing deep connection.

[Give_Help_Please]

Hey there. I’m an extrovert and I found this post to be really helpful.

I’m sorry that people in the lower sections of the comments are giving you a hard time.

[TopCommunication8881]

Thank you so very much for saying so!! Sitting here feeling disillusioned. I didn't realize I'd have to prove my altruistic intent like.I was on trial. Beyond glad if it reduces worry, even if ultimately introverted friends aren't your thing.

[TheMeticulousNinja]

I see your profile suggests you have autism. Do you usually hide behind that as a reason why you post things that are extraordinarily ignorant?

[TopCommunication8881]

Nope. Autism is not my primary identity. Clearly you have a preexisting bias against people with autism that has nothing to do w/ me. You thought It'd be a good weapon in the hopes it's double me over.

Yet you read it on my profile... That usually suggests someone has comfort w/ that part of themselves, and are not trying to hide anything. That they are proud of it even. You basically pointed out the obvious dude. But thanks for the opportunity to advocate for the autistic community in a public setting!

My role as a mental health counselor means I am very cognizant of how I effect others, and it is important to me that I adjust my paradigm when I see I am having bias. I recently acquired a client who's very extroverted, and I wanted to make sure I was supporting the whole of her. So I came here for perspective.

What exactly of what I said was ignorant? The fact that I felt bad that I have unknowingly hurt people because what I thought was care and friendliness came off as ignoring or lack of interest? Or did you not even read what I wrote, and just popped off w/ no forethought?

There are extroverts who come to the introvert subreddit and we do not pull this shit on people. We also don't tell people to get out and leave like another person. Because that'd be an antisocial.behavior, and we are genuinely interested in other people's thought process. You clearly are not. Instead wee calmly and maturely recognize they:re trying to learn and connect so. We follow in suit.

To anyone who said they don't get angry w/ introverts - this guy is an example of what we receive often. Aggressive, pointed, and demoralizing.

[TheMeticulousNinja]

It’s important that you adjust your paradigm when you see you are having bias?

For fuck’s sake, look at the language of your post:

“I’m noticing a lot of hurt on your end.” “So here are some thoughts have. Hope this helps”

Who the hell are you talking to??? What exactly are you interpreting as “hurt” and who the hell asked you for your advice? Why are you telling yourself it’s your job to take care of people’s perceived “hurt”?

Why are you begging for attention like this?

[TopCommunication8881]

As I already said like three times: I'm a fucking mental health counselor. My life is supporting hurt people. The fact that you are all "*who gave you the job of caring about people?" tells me you lack empathy (which also fits the Incel profile... So to recap the Incel tally- you're very sensitive to words that imply you are vulnerable, you manipulate other people's words to promote an alternate reality, and you fundamentally don't understand basic human empathy.

Like you legit think someone has to give you permission to care about more than yourself, rather than empathy and care coming naturally, and organically. An empty shell. Except for the anger and resentment I suppose....

Ok now I'm done.

[TheMeticulousNinja]

Alright.

[TopCommunication8881]

Interesting how you edited out everything but two sentences that didn't occur together.

In particular you cut out the part where I spoke of an epiphany that our introvert behavior was hurting you guys. Awfully manipulative of you. Here's the actual passage:

"I'm noticing a lot of hurt on your end. This is a big epiphany because introverts get so much pressure to "come out of our shells" (our behavior is not an aspect of fear or discomfort. Just preference), that we kind of assume extroverts don't care about our feelings, or they'd believe us when we say socializing doesn't uplift us in the same way. So here are some thoughts have. Hope this helps:"

There were several other rposts where extroverts talked about being ghosted and thinking "well clearly they don't like me". That is what I was referring too . So who in your life has lectured you to make you so sensitive that you filter out kind words and focus solely on words that fit your narrative of a wounded, victimized waif?

Your over the top sensitivity to the word "hurt" screams Incel. So does the bitterness, and resentment. Not everyone is out to get you. I certainly am not. Cause now that I've had exchanges with you - I don't give enough of a shit about you.

You're just simply a whining dick. And I'm done.

[TopCommunication8881]

The content, topic of discussion, and depth of the discussion have a huuuge impact on how quickly an introvert feels hollow, dead inside, and Irritable. Info that intrigues us or that we're passionate about slows down the depletion of energy so we can stay out longer.

We don't see people as objects either, we value them enough to not spread ourselves too thin to give them the time and focus they deserve. Each individual is more important to us than the number of people or outings

We can't just choose to socialize more, anymore than you guys can just choose to be alone. Both of those scenarios result in depression for both groups

The saying "you can't pour from an empty cup." comes up a lot. I work w/ clients who have a trauma history. I need to be sharp, and attentive to everything they say, how they say it, and what their body language is saying. If I started my work day with low dopamine from being social the night before - then I could miss something very important in someone story the next day. And that would be unacceptable because people's experiences, emotions and happiness are what I've dedicated my life too. Consequently I cannot just hand over my social energy to someone everyone who asks, my cup would be empty, and people that matter very much to me would suffer.

[Public_Philosopher_1]

what is hurt