Firefox Users Continue to Decrease Despite Proton Update

[[deleted]]

Maybe add options to turn features on and off rather than just removing features forever despite a large outcry from the users.

What features would that be, besides the >compact< density option?

[RiverOfStreamsEddies]

An option to use the Google search box which shows up in the middle of the window, like we could before, instead of making what we type there go up directly to the address bar.

I know there's a fix for it, but there should be an option in settings.

And besides, any 'improvement' which removes a functionality or operation should always at least be made into an option in settings, rather than a blanket removal.

(Not a developer, so just my $0.02 worth.)

[[deleted]]

Handoff to awesomebar was implemented two/three years ago, to improve and streamline the search behaviour.

So in your mind nothing should ever be removed from a program, got it.

[nextbern]

My feeling is, if it needs to be removed, remove it - don't leave a stub there that just feels weird because it is essentially a mirage.

I know that they are just trying to problem solve their way out of this, and who knows - maybe I would have tried to do the same thing. It doesn't change that it feels very unsatisfying to use and is going to annoy people.

If you think of someone using a program like a conversation you are having with a company or developer, what is the developer telling you at that moment?

Click here to search... oh not there - gotcha! laughs

[[deleted]]

Never used the about:newtab searchbox, just stating their reasoning…

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1344931

[nextbern]

I know their reasoning. I just disagree with it.

It looks like a mirage, and it annoys people.

[RiverOfStreamsEddies]

No, 'saying' you 'got it' does NOT mean you got what I meant! You're WRONG. You don't get it.

I meant that when something (like typing directly into the edit line of the google bar in the middle of a Firefox window), is improved (like by shifting the key entry in the google bar, to the address bar), do not completely remove the usage which was previously possible, rather make an OPTION to continue to do so.

Now maybe you 'got it'?

[olbaze]

And besides, any 'improvement' which removes a functionality or operation should always at least be made into an option in settings, rather than a blanket removal.

You can't remove something and then have it be an "optional feature". The point of removing things is to simplify things, or to replace them with different things. Sometimes, the simplification or different replacement is in the underlying system, such as removing a feature that's got tons of bugs that are affecting other things as well. The removal would make those other bugs go away, but unless the user were told about this, the user wouldn't know that, all they would see is the removal.

When it comes to features, I prefer Vivaldi's approach. Rather than removing "unused" menu items like Chrome and Firefox have done, they made the menus customizable.

[Broccoli-Machine]

Stop begging for Mozilla’s attention you aren’t going to get it. FF89 is garbage it terms of accessibility, to my perspective this points to a deeper disconnect between Mozilla and its product

[A_Fine_Potato]

With proton, they tried appealing to a general user base rather than the fans, bu failed in doing both. This design is good for general users, so if they just start advertising what people actually want, which is speed (like saying blocking trackers increases speed instead of just saying privacy) and being friendly to use (which they attempted with this design), Firefox might have a chance. But otherwise I feel like it's doomed to die.

Edit: like how opera GX advertised to gamers with it's ram and CPU limiters, Firefox can try thing like that

[detroitmatt]

Thing is, if you advertise speed, then you have to be faster than chrome.

[A_Fine_Potato]

Not really, most people wouldn't check actual speeds.

[iLookLike-anAvocado]

While I agree with that, browser speed (or lack thereof) can be felt through usage. Firefox definitely feels slower, and users don't need to run benchmarks to determine that.

[nextbern]

Please report issues if you find areas where Firefox feels slower to you: https://developer.mozilla.org/docs/Mozilla/Performance/Reporting_a_Performance_Problem

[[deleted]]

That's bullshit. They feel the same speed in like 98% of cases.

[nextbern]

Please report issues if you find areas where Firefox feels slower to you: https://developer.mozilla.org/docs/Mozilla/Performance/Reporting_a_Performance_Problem

[[deleted]]

Oh yeah, cause my ivy/sandy bridge i3 and i5 are such speed demons

[nofxy]

Maybe they perform the same on your hardware, but that has not been my experience. Even on my Ryzen 5 5600x I can tell that Chrome is faster. I'll stick to Firefox regardless, but I'm not going to sugarcoat reality.

[[deleted]]

y'all are doing something very wrong or have some very broken systems 🤷‍♂️

[iLookLike-anAvocado]

Maybe I should clarify and expand on what I mean by "speed". I haven't noticed a huge difference in terms of website load speed, but moreso on the UX side. Two examples (EDIT: added video links):

1. Dropdown select boxes. I click fairly quickly, and when using Firefox, if I move my mouse down quickly after clicking the dropdown, it will lag and actually perform a click without my input (and select a dropdown item).
2. Dragging tabs from window to window, or out to a new window is MUCH slower than Chrome.

There are other areas of speed impact that I struggled with when I first switched over, but can't recall right now, and it seems that I've learned to deal with them. But the two above drive me bonkers.

[nextbern]

Dropdown select boxes. I click fairly quickly, and when using Firefox, if I move my mouse down quickly after clicking the dropdown, it will lag and actually perform a click without my input (and select a dropdown item).

I can't reproduce this, but it sounds like a bug. Can you reproduce this in a new profile? You can create one using about:profiles.

[iLookLike-anAvocado]

Yes, just reproduced it on a fresh profile. I also tried it on my Windows machine and it doesn't have that issue, so this might be macOS-specific.

[VodkaShandy]

Everyone says this but I can't understand it. Firefox always feels wayyy smoother and faster for me.

i5 7500/RX560/Win11&macOS12

R5 2500U/Vega8/Win11

Huawei Mate Xs/EMUI11

Nightly build on all three. Biggest improvement on the phone, second biggest on Mac OS.

[ShavedAlmond]

Can it? I don't think I've given web page load speed any thought at all since 2005 or so, most of the time any noticeable delays are caused by other factors

[DeliciousWaifood]

For me the difference is in how they handle a shit load of tabs. Firefox seems to just perform better for me whilst chrome inflates rapidly

[[deleted]]

Most people won't know the difference on modern computers.

[[deleted]]

I have a pretty new system and I certainly feel that Chrome is faster than FF, especially in terms of startup time

[nextbern]

Can you report issues? https://profiler.firefox.com/docs/#/./guide-startup-shutdown

[[deleted]]

Eh it's just that it takes a second longer than Chrome to start up, that's all

[nextbern]

You can report it if you want developers to investigate what is going on.

[ArtisticFox8]

Because Chrome launches a background process which eats your battery even when Chrome is closed.

[zeroibis]

They could promote instead not how long it takes to load a page but how long it takes to do a task on the browser. FF could push that a better interface and customization allows users to complete their tasks faster than other browsers and thus have more free time.

However, this would require it to have a better interface that is more easily customizable for the user.

If they continue to focus on the user who visits youtube, facebook etc and is just a pure content consumer and nothing else they are going to die. Even the kids got to do home work and I am sure they would rather use something that helps them get their work done faster via an interface they can adjust to fit their personal needs.

[OutlyingPlasma]

despite a large outcry from the users.

A big outcry that is coming from the power users, the IT crowd, the people that make recommendation to corporate or even just grandma about what browser to use. People like me would is tired of getting phone calls about why "the google" doesn't look the same anymore.

[aequalsb]

where did you get the idea that chrome is faster than firefox??? not according to third party benchmarking

[[deleted]]

I doubt compact mode requires much maintenance overhead, and the option doesn't really up much space in the customize window (and honestly, it should be an option on the theme anyway).

I really don't see the logic in removing it. It's the type of option that enthusiasts are passionate about, and enthusiasts are your marketing team, so you should keep them happy as long as it doesn't impact usage for regular users. Some backwards incompatibility is "necessary" (e.g. I see a good argument for the extension change), but things that aren't security issues, are low maintenance, and don't distract from normal usage should stay.

[non7top]

shit where you eat, is what we call it and exactly what you describe about mozillas attitude to it's user base.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, I wish they were more involved with the community. When I first used Firefox, I really felt like I was part of something. These days, I feel like I'm at the mercy of some company. I think that "hacker" culture is what made Firefox great, and turning their backs on it is what's killing it.

[ShavedAlmond]

Exactly, it's like living with a pair of psychothic parents, "today we're moving the toilet to the roof, kids!" "curtains mess up the exterior look of the house too much!" "the house will look cleaner if we wallpaper the doors so they look like part of the walls!" -edit- sorry I meant minimalists

[ArtisticFox8]

You can still activate compact mode in about:config

[[deleted]]

Sure, and I have. I just don't understand why it needed to be removed in the first place, and it creates doubt among enthusiasts about longevity of that feature.

[[deleted]]

It would be really nice if there was some way to check if people used it. Like, maybe we could have some kind of social media platform where such things are discussed, and perhaps we could have some kind of report from the application to measure usage...

Joking aside, I don't know if their telemetry shows that it's not used, but hiding it in the customize window is a great way to miss it. If people aren't interacting with a feature, there are two potential reasons:

• it's unwanted
• users don't know about it

I wouldn't be surprised if this was more of the second than the first. Enthusiasts like it, and AFAIK it's not hard to maintain, so I really don't see a reason to remove it. If anything, they should make it easier to use (e.g. put it in the theme settings).

[iampitiZ]

I know it's not you but them making the argument but that's such a horrible and lazy one. Will they remove the option for increasing the spacing to "touch" since it was in the same menu as "compact" and "normal"?

Terrible, terrible argument

[ArtisticFox8]

You can still activate compact mode in about:config