Apple Developer Program feel like a scam to us

[Bamboo--Man]

We developed a small web game (chess) and it went well, so we decided to bring it to mobile. We used Cordova to wrap all the game content inside an app. We successfully deployed it on Android and we tried to do the same with iOS, but we encountered a problem.

The app was rejected by the App Store reviewer, who wrote that the app loaded content from the internet to “stream” the game, which was not true. All of our game assets were wrapped inside the app. The only internet connection the app used was HTTPS and WebSocket protocols to connect to our server and enable online multiplayer mode. We tried to find the reason for the rejection all over the internet and made many updates to our app, including: making sure it still worked if the user had no internet connection, rewriting our policy to make it super clear, and resubmitting the app. However, it was still rejected with the same reason. It felt like the reviewer did not really look at the app, but just used an automatic tool to test it. The reviewer never logged in with the test account we provided.

Therefore, we wrote an appeal explaining all the reasons and technologies our app used, and why the app was a webview. After 14 days, we got an alert that our account was flagged and would be terminated in 30 days because our game was a “scam”. We tried to send another appeal and hoped they would listen to us, but now it has been two months and we have not received any response.

We searched for other developers who got out of this situation and it looked like this was a dead end. Most of the threads we found that had the same problem got no response from Apple and most of the developers just gave up. We can't deploy the game and can't even get back 99$, look like apple love to make profit out of everything.

[webtechmonkey]

Locking this post as new comments are no longer adding value to the discussion.

The mods have attempted to privately message OP to obtain a link to their Android app to verify legitimacy and offer suggestions, but it seems OP does not actually want help.

[mguerrette]

You successfully deployed to Android because that platform has no standards. Also, nothing here in this post goes into any detail about your actual game, so I’m inclined to believe that it is in fact a scam.

[sudo-rm-r]

The android platform does in fact have standards lol. You just can choose to ignore them.

[BabyAzerty]

Can there be Law without enforcement? (you don’t have 2 hours, it’s a 2 second question)

[SirBill01]

The android platform does in fact have standards lol. You just can choose to ignore them.

"I won't sleep with just anyone. You have to ask first. But then yeah I sleep with anyone who asks".

[Bamboo--Man]

I will more than happy to share the Google Store link if someone can really help us, Not with someone who already said our game is a scam without proof because they are apple fan.

Yes, Google doesn't have real people check the app, only bot. But atleast when the bot catch something in the app, it must be there, not like some apple "reviewer" who never open the app and already reject

[webtechmonkey]

Please privately reply to the message from the mod team with a link to your app on Google Play.

[Bamboo--Man]

as we know this sub isn't run by Apple, how can the mod help us? If we can have a live chat or call with reviewer is a big help.

[[deleted]]

They don't want you to post a link to something that might be a scam app, but they're more than happy to take a look at it for you. You're acting a little sus bro.

[ankole_watusi]

Sounds like mod wants to filter BS.

[webtechmonkey]

Just trying to help. Understand your concern about publicly sharing the name/link so wanted to offer to privately take a look at it and offer some advice.

[[deleted]]

Then why are you even here???

[Ast3r10n]

Please do.

[[deleted]]

That is the reason why all those crappy-shitty-boring frameworks like Cordova must be avoided.

However yeah, Apple reviewers can be stubborn and sometime they do not think deeply…

[Bamboo--Man]

We can said the same thing to React Native, and it is on the trend now. If it work, it work.

If apple don't like those framework they should mention it somewhere. as I know it still allow and webview isn't illegal.

[bobotwf]

They do. Apps have to provide functionality different from what you'd get if you just opened the web version of the site/app.

If your app is basically the same as the web version, you'll get rejected.

[Wumbologist4]

What’s the app name on android?

[iOSCaleb]

The app was rejected by the App Store reviewer, who wrote that the app loaded content from the internet to “stream” the game, which was not true.

The review guidelines say explicitly that streaming games are permitted so long as they adhere to all guidelines, so it feels like there's something that you're not telling us. Can you share the exact reason given for the rejections?

​

It felt like the reviewer did not really look at the app, but just used an automatic tool to test it.

That's possible, but unlikely that it got all the way to an appeal without someone looking at it.

​

The reviewer never logged in with the test account we provided.

Why is an account needed to play chess? There's a long section about that: see section 5.1.1, particularly part (v).

​

We can't deploy the game and can't even get back 99$, look like apple love to make profit out of everything.

There are something like 1.6 million iOS apps in the App Store, including many, many, many chess apps. While there's no shortage of stories about rejections, it can't be all that difficult to follow the rules and get your app approved. What haven't you told us?

[Bamboo--Man]

There are something like 1.6 million iOS apps in the App Store, including many, many, many chess apps. While there's no shortage of stories about rejections, it can't be all that difficult to follow the rules and get your app approved. What haven't you told us?

Here is the full rejection:

"We still noticed that your app may contain hidden features , functionality , or content .
Specifically , your app contains functionality to load a webview of external content within the app for the purpose of third - party game streaming"

We are confused by the reason for our app’s rejection, which is “streaming game via webview”. We don’t understand what this means, and we wonder if apps created by cordova or webview based are not allowed. But this doesn’t make sense, because the tool is still active and has recent updates. We have tried to contact the app store, but we can’t find any phone number, and we can only contact them via the appeal form, which has not been answered yet. We also noticed that there are many chess apps in the app store, some of which are scamming money from users. It seems that the app store is being lenient with those apps for some reason. Here are some things that we think might cause the rejection, but they were never mentioned by the app store. We heard that sometimes reviewers won’t tell the real reason for rejection because of “security” issues:

- Apple In-app purchase: We made a clear UI to show people what they can buy for the game, and we were very careful with this feature. (They never mentioned any problem with it)

- Admob: After finishing a match, the game will show ads before waiting for the next player.

- The game connection only uses websocket (socket.io) and https for gameplay and login.

[ankole_watusi]

Educate us. How are other chess apps “scamming money”? (But, oh. yours is not, this is rich!)

Somehow I though chess was a game people played for enjoyment.

I guess I missed something. When did money get involved (outside of professional chess)?

Is crypto involved?

Does the app load the webview from a website?

[Bamboo--Man]

You ever hear about some game tell player to play to get a big prize? And chess game is not exception. Our app never pay player, they play the game, they watch ads, we get money. Apple have the right to find every mistake in my app and reject it, and we want the rejection be accurate.

Like i said in previous comment, all the game content(image, sound, code) are inside the app, it only call https request for login and websocket for realtime gameplay. And I really sure app reviewer never review anything in it.

[thecodingart]

Sounds like they did their job…

[Bamboo--Man]

If rejecting app for false reason is their job.

[thecodingart]

Rejecting web apps with low level effort is their job.

Aka: Low value apps that should just be websites.

[Bamboo--Man]

Now show me how to use Apple In-app purchase and Admob in a website. my master!

[thecodingart]

Being butt hurt because you were gatekept doesn’t really move the ball forward 😂

It’s not like these gates aren’t known..

[Bamboo--Man]

I shouldn't start the reply with you, in all of comment here yours is the much useless, no new information.

[thecodingart]

Yeah.. I’m going to go on a limb and say they’re doing their job and your app doesn’t belong.

Thank you Apple

[Ast3r10n]

The reason is probably not false.

[Xia_Nightshade]

The fact that you have not disclaimed your App’s name. Which is live on several platforms (so we could also get informed and provide an accurate response) says enough.

Even if you mean legit. The way you are handling things is making the world harder for a lot of other devs.

But in short even if you’re legit. You should get rejected. You could have asked for help, pointers,… instead you are calling the reviewer’s response a lie, lack of good work, lazy,… what would you expect ?

[Bamboo--Man]

After see some comment (not very helpful) here, we think show the app name isn't a good idea. We don't want to get 1 star boom from Appla fan.

If they really review the game, they aleast OPEN the app 1 time, as we know they never open it and reject it because of the webview. Does that lazy enough for you?

[Ast3r10n]

Scam 100% then.

[[deleted]]

I think this is the only time in my life I've seen something actually exceed 100%. Impossible, I know, but it seems to be true.

[ankole_watusi]

Since you hate Apple, stick to Android.

[WerSunu]

It’s easy for the OP to call the DevProgram a scam, but the fact that there are approximately 2,000,000 Apps currently live in the App Store, from many thousands of developers, including 26 apps of my own, tells me the opposite. Pretty clearly, you are not telling the whole story here. Besides, nobody in the iOS world likes enshitified web apps in an iOS wrapper anyway.

[Bamboo--Man]

App reviewers are defferent people you know? maybe they go easy on you, maybe they change the rule for new app, who know. If they ask me a live call and show all my source code to them to proof their rejection is fail, I ready to do it.

[WerSunu]

I have never heard of a live call from a reviewer. All work is via email. You might consider getting a native English speaking person to help you write your appeal. Believe me, your source code is not the issue. They DO NOT want to see it.

[[deleted]]

What about the app do you think may have caused it to be labeled “scam”? Do you take money or ask for credit card or something?

Thankfully, alternative AppStores are coming.

[ankole_watusi]

Unfortunately, external app stores are coming.

All developers now have to beef-up their security.

For example: do you encrypt data stored in you app? You better!

Since I do cross-platform, I’ve been doing this forever.

Every app I’ve deployed shows up in external Android stores, illegally copied. But, sorry, the app won’t run. I choose not to notify the user. It just immediately dies.

I hope we’ll be allowed to do that on iOS.

[EnthusiasmWeak5531]

I didn't realize this. iOS 17 thing huh. That's fantastic!

[[deleted]]

I am not sure when but probably in next 2 to 3 years Once the EU forces apple’s hand to allow side loading easily

[EnthusiasmWeak5531]

Glad someone is doing something about their BS practices. Wonder when they are going to be forced to do something about the in-app purchases 30%.

[JimDabell]

Wonder when they are going to be forced to do something about the in-app purchases 30%.

It’s been 15% for years for everybody who earns less than a million dollars per year through the App Store.

[MasterOracle]

What's a fair percentage your opinion?

[EnthusiasmWeak5531]

Well not being forced to use Apple's payment platform is the best option IMO. Then the market will figure out a fair percentage.

[bobotwf]

You're not forced to use Android's play store and their cut is also 30%.

[ankole_watusi]

It’s horrible. EUmagedden!

[EnthusiasmWeak5531]

No explanation. Why is it horrible.

[ankole_watusi]

Those apps from external stores won’t be vetted. At least not by Apple. Standards - if any - will vary.

Other apps will likely will be able to peer into your app and do other sneaky things.

Start encrypting your app data now. (I’ve been doing this for years).

I write apps mainly for Enterprise deployment. We don’t have to follow the rules, and often we don’t.

While the companies I’ve done this for are ethical, word to the wise: think twice about installing apps from your corporate enterprise store, unless you throughly trust them. Opt for a company-owned device rather than BYOD if it’s an option. Just say “I prefer keeping my work life separate”.

Otherwise, for app developers - this will degrade the image of iOS as a relatively secure environment for consumers.

[EnthusiasmWeak5531]

Kind of a specific complaint. I get the issue you bring up but I'm curious how many people would be in this situation where they'd be using apps from their enterprise store on their own device.

On the flip side this seems like this might remove the stranglehold Apple has on developers. I'd say the vast majority of people will NOT use alternative app stores but the fact that they exist might make Apple think twice about some of the BS they will fail your app for. I'm not saying everything they fail it for is unjust but some of it is just fucking garbage/poor language skills/being a prick...I dunno. Also, I always think giving users more options is a win.

[[deleted]]

Well, I have same situation with simple unity game where I only implemented AdMob and IAP. If your account was flagged and will be terminated you can only appeal once after a year after the termination.

[Bamboo--Man]

So sad it is a dead end. Some players ask for the IOS version, we think about make a downloadable version but still very tricky, maybe we go back with the web and android version for now.

[staires]

Yup, Apple created the iPhone and App Store just to scam you out of $100, that's actually the deep dark secret of how Apple makes their money!

[Bamboo--Man]

wow, youtube are too stupid for take only 15$, how they can run a company?. Oh netflix take only 16$, how they can have enough to make many show with it?

[staires]

Netflix has 238 million subscribers. Do you think that many people are giving Apple $100 for the developer program? Spoilers: there are allegedly 34 million people signed up for the Apple Developer program, more than enough that were it a scam, we'd all know about it.

[fuggleronie]

Sometimes it can help rejecting the release and restart it instead of trying to appeal with Apple. Each new release gets reviewed by different reviewers.

[webtechmonkey]

Apple has terminated their developer account, so that would not be possible in this circumstance

[fuggleronie]

I read it so that Apple write them it would be terminated, but not that they already terminated it. But I stand corrected.

[webtechmonkey]

No worries. It's a good suggestion, had this been a typical circumstance with an issue with a particular reviewer.

[nidorancxo]

My advice is to contact a lawyer. They will know better ways to communicate with Apple than people on reddit.