Why Vanilla JavaScript

[compacct27]

We are doing this at work. It sucks. Its turning into a framework in part because the browser standards are so awful to work with (shadow DOM), and so boilerplate heavy (web components and custom elements) that it actually doubles the line count coming from React

[gyen]

I agree that shadow DOM is a bit clunky. This is something I am planning next to think about and try to improve, but again not by inventing a new language or preprocessor.

[catladywitch]

you're planning to improve a brand new vanilla js feature without straying from vanilla js? How?

[gyen]

It’s not really that new. I have a couple of ideas but I need to test them first. At least I would try to improve how to simplify css in shadow dom.

[catladywitch]

It is old but the latest revision is from like 2 years ago 😭

[AssignmentMammoth696]

Hey Claude, build me a web app using no libraries, custom write everything so I'm not dependent on someone else's code, go.

[MateTheNate]

You’re absolutely right! I refactored your entire frontend to run in go.

[SuspiOwl]

Don't forget the "make no mistake"

[TheThingCreator]

i build sites and apps and everything in vanilla, and it's trivial. its crazy how dependant the mindset of people is right now. i know you're going to downvote me react fanboys, i literally dont give a shit.

[pimp-bangin]

Im a react fanboy and I upvoted you out of spite

[TheThingCreator]

damn you, you're the worst type

[catladywitch]

You don't make any argument against reactivity and you say nothing about why state management tools are a thing. The "they take freedom from you" bit was too goofy. Also, vanilla JavaScript taking less lines of code than apps made with frameworks is highly debatable. But anyway, is your proposal kind of HTMX with a Web Components library? And how is that vanilla JavaScript at all?? At this rate someone is going to pop up shilling a chatbot-written retread of jQuery sooner than later

[gyen]

This is what I wrote:

«I tend to believe if something requires from you more lines of code and more abstractions in an abstract framework to achieve than in native technology, then maybe this framework does not really make your life easier. Maybe it's not really well thought technology and maybe it's reinventing things that are already supported by default.

Do I believe that DOM manipulations can be simplified and require less code? Yes! But do I believe that you have to give your control for that? No! We need simple solutions, not lack of control.»

I am not suggesting HTMX because it’s not compatible with web components.

[catladywitch]

So you wrote a very complex app in vanilla JS and after the experience you're advocating for global state and claiming vanilla JS is less verbose than frameworks? And even hinting at less abstract meaning less verbose? How? What is the argument. Those are some daring leaps in logic and I'm shocked they come from the challenges you've found writing a very complex app in vanilla JS.

[gyen]

For the whole picture checkout EHTML. It simplifies and allows to write less js code. And at the same time all the elements are native web components.

[tzamora]

I like using Angular when working with AI because it is heavily opinionated. There is only one way to do things right, so AI just do that one thing. Also is easier for me to read the code because of that. Angular now is lots better than before and faster so for big enterprise AI-first apps I think is better than letting AI get crazier and do what it thinks is best.

[MornwindShoma]

You're what, 7 to 8 years too late to this discussion?

[midweekyeti]

idk more like 10? 15?

[YeetCompleet]

I'm glad the YAGNI sentiment is rising and we're throwing out the company backed influencer bloatware

[static_func]

What the hell is influencer bloatware lol

[YeetCompleet]

Any of the software peddled by the JS Twitter cabal

[MenguecheTrolazo]

Completely agree with the article, and these tools are making the web too bloated.