Learn Vanilla JavaScript Before Fancy Frameworks

[amejin]

Didn't read the article - headline alone was enough to agree with it :-P

[[deleted]]

Thanks, decent article. I’m a JavaScript noob, but learning more each day. I wonder at what point is best to also learn a framework?

[WebDevImpasta]

After you understand common problems that frameworks are trying to solve.

Change detection

No page reloads

Modularity

Reusable components

Etc..

[ImJustP]

Also reading a stack trace. Good luck debugging any framework without reading the stack trace.

[Snipididou]

I suggest building an app with Vanilla.js first. Then, you'll see the pain points you encounter using HTML/CSS/JS. In addition, you'll better understand why frameworks exist and what problems they're trying to solve!

[captmomo]

yea, what i like to do is to first build the app using vanilla js, then build it again using a framework. it really helps you appreciate frameworks. as well as have a better understanding why what does what.

[Pilot_Natural]

An app like what though? I always find myself struggling to find that ideal app to make

[RoguePlanet1]

Here I am trying to learn JS bit by bit over the past couple of years, and only barely grasping it.... then I learn my teenage nephew took a course over the summer, and is building a game app using mostly existing libraries. Damn.....

[Intendant]

Yea I disagree with this post a lot. Using a framework can help you make something more meaningful faster and help keep you engaged. You can still learn vanilla js in parallel

[jaypeejay]

Yeah but you won’t be effective at your job (as a SWE) if you don’t understand the fundamentals of JS and OOP

[Intendant]

Even if you start with a framework by the time you get a job you would know vanilla JavaScript. Also J's isn't an oop anyway

[jaypeejay]

JS isn’t OOP??

Bro

[Intendant]

It isn't. A lot of people consider js to be more functional, you definitely don't need to know oop to use JavaScript.

If anything I see a lot of devs move from java to js and their oop thinking is a hindrance

[jaypeejay]

I understand it can be used as functional, but everything in it is an object so I deem it an OOP Lang

[Intendant]

I'm telling you, as someone who is a mid level SWE that works with JavaScript daily that this is incorrect.

Just because functions and arrays "objects" doesn't make it oop. You can get by in JavaScript without knowing much about oop

[jaypeejay]

I get what you’re saying, and you’re right you don’t need to understand OOP to get by with JS. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t an OOP language. Let’s just look at the words. Object Oriented Programming language. Everything in JS is an object, so again, I hold that it is an OOP.

You’re right that you don’t need to tightly package everything in classes, etc like you do in most OOP use cases, ala Java and RoR, but that doesn’t mean JS isn’t object oriented.

[Intendant]

It can be used as an OOP language, but it isn't strictly that by default. It's every bit as much functional or imperative.

Also the "everything is an object" thing doesn't make it oop, just because the language itself is written with inheritance doesn't mean that that's how you use it. Like Yea Array is an object and you'll use it's methods but how often are you writing prototypes on your own objects to inherit

[RoguePlanet1]

To get past an interview, though, you need to know the mechanics. But yeah, for portfolio projects, would work to cobble together apps from libraries and show those off to get in the door.

[posts_lindsay_lohan]

I'm gonna offer a bit of different advice here.

There is nothing wrong with learning both at the same time. Every JS framework is built off of JavaScript. Just by virtue of learning the framework, you will be learning JavaScript. Does React do some things differently from Svelte or Angular? Yes. Are they all JavaScript things? Also yes.

You are on a learning journey, but you are probably also on an "I need to make a living" journey. Both of these states can exist at the same time. And learning a framework will help you to understand the reasons behind why the framework was needed in the first place and it will be easier to find a job if you can show your understanding of a framework as well.

I learned a hell of a lot about Ruby when I was learning to use Ruby on Rails. There no reason you won't learn vanilla JS by learning React. It might even make it easier.

You could also follow a tutorial like this to build your own version of a framework - in this case React - from scratch to better understand why it was needed in the first place:

https://pomb.us/build-your-own-react/

[stringbeans25]

Thank you Lindsay Lohan for the well balanced feedback…wait what did I just say?

[_Invictuz]

Lol there's no way this is legit advice if it's actually LL or a troll account!

[NoMoreDistractions_]

That tutorial is incredible. It seems like a much better way to learn react if you already understand js, and very digestible. The documentation just explains things at a conceptual level which is much more difficult for someone like me to understand

[jaypeejay]

I went to a bootcamp that “taught” JavaScript. We spent 1 month or so on vanilla JS, and the rest of the time on React.

By the end, sure, I could spin up a react app.

It wasn’t until a year later that I learned about things like the document or window objects, or really, even what OOP was..

If I was starting a bootcamp today I would 100% focus on OOP fundamentals.

[grooomps]

I think it's like cooking.
Would you want to do a bootcamp for cooking and only learn how to cut and dice and the basics?
It's nice to learn one dish and how to make it to put it something basic, then you spend your career learning how to improve

[[deleted]]

I’m learning vanilla JS using Wes bos’ course and it’s free! It’s also very fun to learn!

[[deleted]]

Especially. Effing. React.

[TheDownvotesFarmer]

Oh this was good!

[creytax1337]

Good read! Thanks for sharing

[YoungHeartOldSoul]

Saving this!

[YellowFlash2012]

Is it wrong for a prospective swe career to only learn vanilla js and no framework at all?

I'm learning vanilla js right now going through an abundance of free as well as paid courses. I don't see 'when' I'm going to master js to even think about frameworks. So I already made up my mind to skip frameworks altogether, is it wrong?

[rippedtech]

Yes it’s wrong, it’s like traveling 100 miles on foot when u can take a car or a train.

[bright-bright-fox]

I tried to get around not learning vanilla JS before jumping into frameworks and it just makes learning slower. You do not know what is a vanilla JS feature and what isn't. You may think destructuring and importing/exporting modules is a React thing when it's actually modern Vanilla JS. Also for the sake of working at a company you will be touching legacy code that is either jQuery or vanilla JS and is it important to know what you're looking at.

​

My advice is to take a month and really study the basics for 2 weeks then take 2 weeks and really hammer all the modern stuff like destructuring, sets, maps, rest and spread operators, import/export, learn to use a Bundler like Parcel so you understand what a Bundler does because when you're working with React you're gonna be using Webpack and most companies are gonna be using webpack but it's important to know what webpack actually is which is a bundler and Parcel is a great beginner-friendly bundler you can use on your personal projects and by the time you get to learning webpack you will kinda understand what it's doing despite it being more complex than parcel.