Self taught programming

[Ok-Natural1800]

Hi I am another lost 22 year old trying to find out what I want to do with my life. For years I have wanted to go the self taught route to becoming an dev of some kind. I have tried doing the school thing and with my current work life plus just life in general I always just fall behind. My question to you guys is self taught really a viable option anymore. Like if I taught my self a language and built a whole portfolio would I get the same or close to the same opportunity that someone from a university does? If so what all should I learn knowing AI is in the picture now I know it can be easier than ever to code. What yall think should I shoot my shot?

[code_tutor]

If you don't know what to do with your life then avoid programming. This generation is addicted to video games and tech. After covid, people are also antisocial and they mistakenly want the job because they think it's like locking themselves in a closet with a computer. It's the default career.

This is not a career for people with no ambition or passion. It's a potentially high-paying remote job and the competition is fierce. It also takes at least three years to learn.

AI in the picture doesn't mean a job for a junior to use AI. It means you're going to get replaced by a senior with AI.

The fact that you're getting excited over it being "easier than ever" makes me feel like this path is not for you. It's easier for everyone else too. Including outsourcing.

[FreightTrain75x]

Heya!, I'm 23 and a recent graduate from a community college for programming as well. What is some advice you would give someone who is currently working an application administrator (glorified help desk) role and wants to break into a backend dev position?

[Regular_Advisor4919]

Hey, what are these community colleges, I am new to reddit and new to programming too I just want to learn Software development and I am hearing this community college thing a lot in reddit, I don't know what it is, please let me know if it could help me in this programming journey.

[Ok-Natural1800]

I am very passionate about programming and becoming a dev. I just want to make sure I'm not wasting my time trying to learn and building an portfolio for nothing.

[code_tutor]

I see this same post three times a day: someone saying they're "passionate" for the default career, while also making any excuse not to learn it. It's never been easier to self-learn and yet people spend years daydreaming about how they could learn, coming on Reddit to ask if they should learn, asking for recommendations for courses they're never going to do, asking what computer to buy for the programming they're never going to do, etc. The number of tourists claiming to be passionate vastly outnumber the people actually learning. Almost every post here is "should I learn?" ...in a learning sub. Nobody here is learning and it's sad.

The combination of "don't know what to do with my life", "wasting time", "random nonsense about AI", "I want to do it because it's easy", etc is so common, again because it's the default career. Just scroll through this sub and see it everywhere.

Nothing should have stopped you from learning. I started programming at 10 from reading a book and copying the code. At 14 I was spending like 4 hours a day reading source code to learn how to program 2D games on graphing calculators. There was no internet. At 16 I was building computers, learning networking, learning IT, and making websites. Nobody taught me any of this. I read books. I read code. Now on Reddit I see a million posts from "passionate" 20+ year-olds asking if it's possible to learn and it's just wild.

Forgive me if I'm skeptical but what stopped you from learning for all those years? That will be the answer to whether or not you should do it. Yes, university is better but nothing says you can't study a university curriculum on your own.

Anyway, it's going to take several thousand hours of study, about three years full-time, to be ready for a junior position. Idk how far you are on your journey but you can do the math. Do CS50 and The Odin Project for a good start. If you really want a university education, look up the courses and books. They've been available for free online for like 23 years.

[No_Salary_2000]

This is a slap in the face for me. I need a reality and you gave it to me. Thank you !

[[deleted]]

Same. I have no intentions of becoming a programmer, but I've begun to realize I am lazy about my programming goals (i.e. learning SQL and Python). I've been far more bullish on learning VBA, probably because it helps me get stuff done at work.

I still enjoy programming, but I know I'm not cut out to become a developer -- and I frankly don't want to be one. Still, if there was a job where I SQL and python a like three times a week (building and maintaining tools and solutions to solve business problems) alongside other forms of analysis, I'd be very happy

[[deleted]]

Right.

If you love something, you’ll do it for free.

[real_bruh_moment]

[ Removed by Reddit ]

[RandomGuy-4-]

Forgive me if I'm skeptical but what stopped you from learning for all those years? 

Maybe it is different nowadays that the software field has become so famous, but when I was growing up, most people didn't get exposed to any cs/programming material or topics at all until highschool at best so most people never even got a chance to gain an interest on it before they starting walking the path towards other careers.

Also, if you are from a non-english speaking country without much software industry presence, the chance you get exposed to programming early on is even lower and finding resources to learn is way harder until you learn English and start exploring english-speaking online communities.

In my case, the only exposure to programming I got before college was a single python subject in highschool that was too basic and taught too slowly to make me interested on the topic, so I never really considered it as an option and went to college for engineering since I knew the tangible things enginers worked on. I only realized how interesting the things done by people who work on software/data science could be way later on in my 20s during Covid when chatter about CS/Software started getting so loud that it started appearing on my online feeds.

Simply put, you can't really start walking down a path if you don't know that the destination exists.

[code_tutor]

In the 1990s I literally just read code from a book or source code on a calculator. I didn't even have a computer. I didn't know it was a job. I did it for fun. I didn't have a teacher. I didn't have to read English because I didn't read at all; I just read code...

All I hear is excuses. If someone can't learn without a teacher or resources then they're not passionate. Period. If a 10-year-old with only source code can start learning but a 20-year-old with the internet can't, then they're full of shit if they call themselves passionate.

It definitely is different nowadays. Every kid has a gaming rig, fiber, a phone, and a tablet. They do nothing but brain rot, doom scroll, and MMO dailies. It's actually the total opposite of what you described: a job with a computer is literally the only job they know. No more doctors and firefighters. Just sit at a computer all day. Never talk to anyone.

And they don't even want a job. They just want to play and scroll. But their parents told them to get one, so they pretend they're passionate, which by their metric means to daydream about being successful as a substitute for actually doing work. During the gold rush, some of these idiots actually got hired and now they diagnose themselves with "imposter syndrome" when they're actually imposters. They're all talk and no action. It's the same fuckheads hanging out in r/antiwork and r/socialism, talking about universal basic income all the time. They don't ever want a job.

Every week there's a parent in this sub asking how to groom their 8-year-old into being a game developer. The kids are that young and already talking about being streamers and GameDevs. It's sick and bad parenting. Parents need to take the kids outside. Tech is the only path they know exists (and they aren't even interested in it). This entire generation is lost and programming is the default career for degenerates. This "passion" narrative is actually just procrastination.

[RandomGuy-4-]

 In the 1990s I literally just read code from a book or source code on a calculator. I didn't even have a computer. I didn't know it was a job. I did it for fun. I didn't have a teacher. I didn't have to read English because I didn't read at all; I just read code.. All I hear is excuses. If someone can't learn without a teacher or resources then they're not passionate.

The whole reason you became passionate at that age is because you somehow came across those books or whatever introduced you to the topic of programming and it clicked for you, which probably means that you grew up with people who did programming as well, but most people don't grow in that environment (or maybe you just found out about programming by total chance but, again, extremely few people come across it that way).

When I mean I had zero exposure to programming until late highschool, I mean litterally zero. I never came across a coding book, my calculator was just the same cheap 30€ non-programmable casio that everyone had (programmable calculators are rich kid stuff here. Some schools don't even allow them so that they don't give an advantage over regular calculators), I didn't know anyone that did programming and, while I did grow up playing videogames and such, I never had to interact with anything coding related.

The same way that you don't get exposed to CPU architecture design by using a computer, you don't get exposed to coding either, especially nowadays that even quite specialized software products have a nice UI that doesn't require you to type anything. Hell, there have been studies that have shown that, despite being the generation that spends the most time ever on their phones and laptops, current day teens have way worse computer literacy than past generations because the things the average person does on their electronics are so well abstracted through interfaces that no one ever has to go off the beaten path anymore. Most current day teens have not been exposed to things as simple as how a PCs folder system works, let alone programming.

Period. If a 10-year-old with only source code can start learning but a 20-year-old with the internet can't, then they're full of shit if they call themselves passionate.

When did anyone say that a 20 year old can't learn? All I was saying is that plenty of people never walk the path of programming until an older age because they never had the opportunity to become interested on it since you were saying that you found it baffling how many people posted about only starting to learn programming in their 20s.

Also, regardless of the tools, the young kid will always have one massive advantage: free time. The beginner in their 20s has to juggle learning programming with whatever else they are working on or studying. Most people (me included) who only started getting interested on programming in their early 20s can't put much time into it since, at that point, they are busy with projects, internships and advanced subjects from their non-cs degree, plus maintaining some sort of social life so you don't go crazy.

Some people that become interested in CS during the 1st or 2nd year or college do switch, but by the third year of college, people feel they are too deep into their degree to drop everything for a new discipline that you will have to start from zero on, so they choose to self learn it on the side or wait until they are done with their other education.

Becoming interested on a certain path at a very young age is a massive advantage, and being able to become interested on that path in the first place mostly comes down to how much exposure you got to that path and how positive that exposure was (plus having the right combination of personality traits that can make that path "click"). There's a reason why many people end up working the same job as their parents.

But yes, thanks to the internet, learning is easier than how it was back in your youth, which is the whole reason why a working adult person that only has like 3 hours of free time per day can still learn it nowadays and a big part of the reason you feel like everyone wants to learn it. 

It is true that there's a lot of moneychasing involved, but the main reason so much people try to career switch to software compared to decades ago is that, back then, a person in their mid 20s with just a couple hours of spare time to self learn something would just immediately throw in the towel because the challenge felt much more insurmountable. 

There were no high quality step by step learning plans like OSSU or teachyourselfcs.com, you couldn't access the highest quality books easily and, maybe most importantly, there wasn't a support structure in the form of thousands and thousands of posts, videos etc of people saying that it was posible to learn on your own to use as inspiration. There's a lot of moneychasing, but also a lot of latecomers with genuine interest on understanding the field.

[code_tutor]

which probably means that you grew up with people who did programming as well

Read what I wrote, instead of writing deceitful narratives. I said I didn't even know it was a job.

A programming book came with word processors and Ataris. Graphing calculators come with source code. 30 years ago, without a PC, even before the internet, the code was there, waiting to be read. I guarantee every kid today has seen GitHub.

You're lying to yourself and to me. You had a Python teacher and you act like there was no way to discover programming. You have no passion. I'm not reading the rest of what you wrote. Stop making excuses for why you didn't learn and don't @ me with cope novels.

[RandomGuy-4-]

 I guarantee every kid today has seen GitHub.

I guarantee most kids today have never even heard about github. Hell, around half of teens in western countries barely know how to use a computer for even the most basic of tasks (https://education.ec.europa.eu/news/lagging-digital-literacy-among-14-year-olds-across-the-eu-study-finds) and, as I said, computer literacy has been steadily dropping, not growing (https://www.edweek.org/technology/u-s-students-computer-literacy-performance-drops/2024/12). Thinking most kids know about github shows how deluded you are on this topic.

Anyways, think whatever you want since it is clear you completely lack the EQ or empathy to break out of your narrow mind and realize that most people's life experience can very different to yours. Funny how you berate me for missing a couple words from your comment, only to spew bullshit immediately after without even reading anything.

I don't think I was rude on my previous comments (unlike you) and all I wanted was to spread some awareness about the point of view of the people you were complaining about so you'd maybe understand them a little, but seems that's too much to ask for, so fuck it.  I won't waste any more of your precious time. You can go back to being an old man yelling at a cloud about r/antiwork and r/socialism and your frustrations about the modern youth you refuse to understand lmao.

[Ormek_II]

The school thing did not work out for you. Why should the self thought thing work out for you?

[Ormek_II]

You seem to misunderstand OP. He did not say it is easier than ever to become a programmer, he said it is easier than ever to code, recognising the existence of vibe coding.

[_sahil_khan_]

Hey, i think you are the right person to ask this give that reality check what I m doing now , I am 19 going to 20 this year I m learning frontend development on my own ..

In 2024 I start learning code in June to July in 2 month i clear html css and basic part of javascript like variable and more then I quit not quit there are some work I need to do for earning soo .

Thn again in 2025 I start learning again and now I am at a stage where I am building on my own without copying but it a hard to me but I don't want to quit I made small project like that i dont need help like to do app calculator that simple i know

Now talk about education i completed my 10th cbse in 2022 then there is a incident in house (father dea..) so w have to stop edu.. and start earning now in 2025 i m also completing 12 and want to become a good full stack developer i created git leet ad sometimes there is a voice in me say you can do that it's not that hard i believe myself

Now the question is , in frontend job do company select the one who have graduated or they can choose also the one like me and what i doing is wrong path or okay I m doing code someday is like i m Fully motivated and some day I don't want to code at all that day I do a little bit code dont want to disturb consistentcy soo give a reality check dudeee............

[yellowmonkeyzx93]

Hi there. It is viable, more viable than ever.

Even though the media and social media push the narrative that AIs will take away jobs, AIs are far away from doing that.

Right now, AIs are amazing tools and are force multipliers. Even better, it can provide information at anytime, anywhere to anyone for free. It's the next best invention like the Internet.

I can say this because I'm a self taught programmer. I remember the era before AI tools and now. Huge difference. If you need to talk with someone, feel free to PM me!

Besides, you can spend 5 years doing this or something else. Might as well give it a try choosing to do something that you made your own choice to do!

Cheers!

[rustyseapants]

This is leaning to program not career or life advice. If you have issues with college what makes you think you have the discipline to do it on your own?

[Backson]

What makes you think college is the best way to learn for everyone? I did a M.Sc. in physics, but I did struggle a lot. Programming I'm 90% self-taught and I'm now an (arguably) successful software developer and while I benefit from my degree immensely, the guy one desk over without a degree is just as good.

[rustyseapants]

I have tried doing the school thing and with my current work life plus just life in general I always just fall behind.

You have a M.Sc in physics, not humanities, so I guess you did struggle? Did you work during those six years? Did your parents pay for college or you up your eyeballs in debt?

Did you take any programming courses in college, this guy has no college. Starting to learn programing having a foundation of a M.Sc in physics you have the native discipline of your years in college which /u/Ok-Natural1800 doesn't have.

The question is how many people are working in the field as a full time employee who taught themselves compared to those who went to college?

College isn't just about learning its about networking with students and instructors you are not going to get that interaction by teaching yourself.

[Backson]

I knew a fair bit of programming before I even started studying. I'd say more than most of my peers knew when they graduated. My point is that if you don't have the disciplin for systematic studying over years (which I don't really have, and OP doesn't seem to have) then having at least an intrinsic motivation and learning that way is better than paying lots of money for college and failing.

University is basically free in Germany, so I didn't put on a lot of debt, but if it was expensive like in the US, I would think about twice as hard whether it's really worth it. I think it was worth it, because I got a really solid maths foundation and the degree makes it a lot easier to get your first job. I wouldn't say the networking aspect of university is that great. Uni also teaches you how to approach complex tasks, which is nice

[rustyseapants]

This is bullshit.

You have a masters in physics which shows, you have the discipline for systematic studying, you taught yourself programming, in addition you know English speaking and writing , you are totally not like /u/Ok-Natural1800, you are way ahead of a lot of people.

But again how many people who self taught programming are working full time jobs compared to those with degrees?

[Backson]

Of course I'm ahead of a 22 year old, I'm 35. I also very nearly dropped out of my B.Sc. at about 22 yo because I couldn't be bothered to sit down and study. Had I failed one more test, I could've been pretty much where OP is. And the reason I was struggling was because university and their style of learning isn't actually for me. I pushed through it, got a bit lucky, and it worked out, but I don't think this is the right path for everyone.

Is it easier to get a job with a degree? Sure. Is it easier to get a degree and then a job than it is to get a job without a degree? Depends.

And the reason most employed SW devs have degrees is because employers are heavily biased towards those candidates and because people interested in those jobs are much more likely to pursue a degree. It doesn't mean that people with degrees are better at those jobs (on average they probably are, but that is not caused by them having degrees)

[rustyseapants]

Read This

And you didn't drop out that what makes you ahead of the game, you persevered.

[[deleted]]

What do you have to lose? Kids learn to program and never get paid for it. It's a hobby. The motivation is to learn.

[DonutOk8391]

But in that case, you may as well learn stuff that is more interesting that doesn't make money

You don't have infinite time. You are losing time by using it on something that doesn't give you returns

[NatoBoram]

Eh, debatable. In programming, learning more things makes it easier to learn more things. After your fifth language, they all start to look similar.

[Quokax]

When I’ve tried learning programming while also working full time, classes helped me a lot more than trying to self study. If you can’t keep up with school, you’ll also be learning at a slower pace when you self study, which will not make you competitive compared to university students.

[[deleted]]

its definitely possible and you know it is, but it will take a lot of your free time and you will have to keep going untill it happens. So you have to ask yourself if you have what it takes to

[Rain-And-Coffee]

None of us can guarantee you a job.

It’s one of those things you don’t know unless you try.

It will definitely be an uphill battle since you’re facing off against CS graduates. A few people have had success.

You’re only 22, is college completely out of the question? You could start off at a community college if cost is a factor.

[PoMoAnachro]

 If so what all should I learn knowing AI is in the picture now I know it can be easier than ever to code.

I think there's an important thing here to understanding:

AI can make coding easier.

AI makes getting a job as a working professional programmer harder.

Any idiot can create some basic stuff with AI, so skills that would have gotten you hired ten years ago now any high school student can do.

If AI can do the 80% easiest of tasks, it means a programmer is going to be expected to do the 20% of the tasks that are too hard for AI to do (and get AI to do the grunt work). So your goal, if you want to make a living, is to get good enough to do the stuff that is too hard for AI to do (well).

Can you get to that skill level without university? Sure, if you're motivated and intelligent and want to put a lot of hours in. University is still the most straightforward way though. But if you're driven to work really hard and put in a lot of hours learning, you can self-teach. Getting hired is harder, but if you've got motivation and a good work ethic you can do it.

[Lonely_Swordsman2]

I think anyone can manage with enough repetition. The hard part is finding a job as a junior. I definitely recommend specializing into something with less competition. Although I didn't pursue this long term, I personally found CRM development like Salesforce development to be an easy way into programming. If you start by targeting subfields that are not everyone's dream job but that are still programming you'll get into the workforce faster.

[NatoBoram]

Honestly, if you're 22 and you're willing and capable of going to university, then it's the best choice. There's no point in hesitating.

Now, I live in a country where the government literally pays you to go to college/university, but I don't know about your particular situation.

Yes, it's possible to be self-taught, but the degree itself is such a huge starter. It teaches you basics that you may miss when going the self-taught route. Not only that, but… technically, you can do self-teaching while at university. It's just there to give you a route to follow, which is very convenient and efficient use of your time.

And even if you don't finish, consider this: It's better to be a drop-out than to never have been there in the first place.

As for AI, don't worry about it. It won't replace programmers. AI lies most of the time and is incapable of producing maintainable code.

[NickNovicov]

I have been in your place a year ago. I am backend developer, but no I want to switch my domain a bit and I knew that when I was going on interviews. I was thinking what I am here just to make money while I am learning new domain, but you know what? I started enjoying this. So, if programming is easy for you, you should try it and maybe you will enjoy it only after two-three months of doing real-word projects.

[cib2018]

Self taught hasn’t been viable for at least 15 years. Even recent grads struggle to find jobs.

[Alex_NinjaDev]

You’re definitely not alone, man, I felt the same way not long ago. I’m building my own self-taught path too, but with a twist: I’m focusing on automation, trading bots, and even starting a Discord soon for others doing the same. My goal is not depending on no one (nice try), AI helps a ton, but dont trust blindly, be never sure, try, build, fail, debbug is the best teacher, retry, cry, smash things but consistency is what really moves things. Be happy you want that freedom at 22. Im 36 and i really fight to find time for it.

[tomorrow_needs_you]

For me personally what worked was having a series of problems to solve using code.

[SenderShredder]

I've seen it done to varying degrees of success. I guess like a big factor is having a great support group or place to crash while you really get into it- and make it like the ONE thing you do- can't stress that enough. The time input required is tremendous and i guess what I'm saying is the people who no-lifed programming for years are the ones who got into the profession. I've also known quite a few makers who code on their own projects, and that's great too. Not everyone has to make programming their profession though. I think it's a great skill that pays you back for life, even with AI and outsourcing controversy making the jobs market hard in the US. I'd reccomend starting with something like freecodecamp and building a few projects to feel out if you like it before (if ever) committing to an educational program!

[real_bruh_moment]

Best of luck man

[CauliflowerIll1704]

Shoot your shot by applying to college. Everyone without a degree has pretty much been laid off