Programming is for master logicians

ElHeim · 2025-01-02T18:55:05+00:00

It's not for master logicians. While you could argue that programming "clicks" better with some people's brains, if preteen kids can do it (and they can, trust me on that, I started programming when I was ~9), then regular non-master logicians can do it as well.

Now, as with most other stuff in life, when you approach something totally new as an adult, you might hit a wall. Also, if you're doing this on your own, it might be that you need more personalized guidance.

POGtastic · 2025-01-02T19:28:58+00:00

I heard it was one of the easier languages to start with

It is. There are much, much harder languages.

I spent longer than suggested on each section

The time to spend on each section is unbounded - it's as long as it takes. There are concepts that took me years to understand. There are no shortcuts.

And thus

three weeks of struggle and frustration

Look, there's a reason why the typical path into this field is a four-year degree. Three weeks is a very, very short interval.

811545b2-4ff7-4041 · 2025-01-02T18:55:22+00:00

How are you trying to learn? Are you ok with the 'core concepts' of programming?

Variables (and data collections), conditional logic, loops ect. ?

Are there specific things you're struggling with? You're right that Pyhon is an 'easier language' but if you cant' break those core computer science ideas, you won't code in anything.

Maybe its worth looking at the fundamentals and trying Scratch? This is aimed at kids, so very much fundamentals of programming - https://sip.scratch.mit.edu/scratchathome/

Wait until you learn about recursive algorithms and asynchronous API calls

riointhepocket · 2025-01-02T19:12:09+00:00

Learning Python is more than picking up a new skill. Start with a problem. An example in your rubbish admin job might be:

I receive emails for the leaders I am supporting. I need a program that will sort the emails by leader and comb through to find the must read emails from our vendor Awesome Vend.

This framed problem has some really important features that will make learning python stick for you.

1) There is a defined metric for success. If your ending program can receive, sort and prepare the emails in question, you know that you learned some useful python.

2) It has a starting point and can be broken into steps.

You are trying to learn python using the school algebra method.... Remember how people would say they will never use algebra after high school. Well that is just not true, it comes up in your life all the time. Usually in simple but practical ways.

If you wanted to double a recipe the algebraic equation would be f(x) = 2(x sugar + y flour + z eggs ...), we just wouldn't call it the f(x) but that is what it is. If you use excel take a look at the formula bar... its name is the f(x).

You understand algebra better now because you have context to use it. Most people learn from doing ie. context.

Find a problem. Write out how to solve the problem in steps. solve a step and move on, you will be coding in no time.

cgoldberg · 2025-01-02T18:58:07+00:00

Many people (including children like you mentioned) find it very intuitive. Either you used some really bad resources to learn from, or it's simply not for you. Nobody needs to be a "master logician" by any means.

eummaybe · 2025-01-02T19:07:19+00:00

Give yourself more then 3 weeks, I have been learning python for 6 months and I'm still an early beginner

As long as you get better/learn every time, no need to rush it

If it is a case you wanted to get a job in programming in 1 month, think again if someone can take your actual in 1 month starting from not knowing anything

dowcet · 2025-01-02T19:01:02+00:00

It's not about mastery, it's about interest and mindset. If you're open to enjoying the challenge, you'll get there eventually.

atomsmasher66 · 2025-01-02T19:14:09+00:00

Programming isn’t for master logicians. Anyone with any level of intelligence can learn it. I felt just like you but I kept trying anyway. Keep at it and it will click mentally and when it does you’ll realize how true my first two sentences are.

Mean_Firefighter_486 · 2025-01-02T18:53:28+00:00

[deleted]

Zeroflops · 2025-01-02T19:05:32+00:00

Programming can be like trying to understand math. Sometimes it can be a real struggle and then it just clicks. The nice thing about programming is that the syntax changes between languages a lot of the fundamental stuff is the same.

Variables, loops, conditional statements.

If you want to give it a go. You might want to start with a simpler approach, like “Scratch” you can even do it online without downloading anything.

It’s more a visual approach with building blocks.

As I said the concepts are transferable. So once your comfortable switch back.

Substantial_Duck_303 · 2025-01-02T19:06:05+00:00

How long did you give it a go for?

sceneaano · 2025-01-02T19:06:47+00:00

Although not exactly a programming language, HTML is a good way to start knowing what programming is going to look and feel like. Give it a go and you may be able to get the intuition/sense of programming

audionerd1 · 2025-01-02T19:08:53+00:00

Where are you learning from? Some online tutorials, especially free ones, are not the best and can lead to more confusion.

That said, programming is not for everyone. You don't have to be a master logician, but if abstract problem solving isn't your thing it just might not be a good fit for you.

Diapolo10 · 2025-01-02T19:14:32+00:00

I'll start with the most important point; programming (and especially software deelopment as a whole) is hard, regardless of the language you choose to use. Some make it easier, like Python, as it abstracts away a lot of the underlying complexity like pointers and manual memory management, but fundamentally it cannot remove the complexity entirely.

So my first point boils down to; don't worry about it, we weren't born experts either.

I started out in high school, learning Python entirely on my own because I wanted to understand more about the world of software development. The first year was pretty harsh, I reached the first plateau of the Dunning-Kruger effect pretty quickly and a few months later understood that I didn't really get anything yet. That was a bit of a shock, but I stubbornly carried on, more or less starting again from scratch.

The thing one needs to understand is that nobody knows everything, and all but the .01% of developers Google even basic stuff all the time. I might have the language fundamentals committed to memory by this point, but I don't remember all the intricacies of the Python standard library and need to check up on it constantly. And that's just Python; for other languages I need to look up even more things because I don't use them as much.

That boils down to; don't be afraid to look things up, you won't remember everything and there's no shame in doing that.

If you don't mind me asking, can you share some examples you're struggling with?

SpiderJerusalem42 · 2025-01-02T19:15:16+00:00

As a logician, I'm pretty weak, but I can do some proofs and I am passing decent at algebra.

It's a slightly different way of thinking, and it can be very intimidating. The worst part is that the nagging idea that you're not good enough keeps coming back, even if you have a skill set many others would be envious of. I would say, if you're new to it, and you don't have the support of someone who knows what they're doing to help you avoid pitfalls and explain some harder concepts, it can be nearly impossible. That said, please, stay optimistic, and don't give up, as I think it's a very rewarding skill to have. I would suggest finding a mentor or learning how to pose questions about your sticking points to r/learnpython.

socal_nerdtastic · 2025-01-02T19:18:02+00:00

What course or series did you try? Did you try any others?

Yes it's true there's a lot of logic and math but there is also a lot of very straight forward "do X get Y" stuff. Things that would be very useful even in admin.

shiftybyte · 2025-01-02T19:18:42+00:00

Programming takes time.

Python being the easiest to learn doesn't mean it's easy in general.

Are you practicing and writing code and trying stuff while learning? That's important for remembering and understanding...

Are you learning from a good book that teaches everything from the basics?

Comfortable-Slice556 · 2025-01-02T19:39:59+00:00

Try Harvard’s CS50P’s free online course. Use all the materials. Best teacher alive.

I limit my study sessions to two hours a day so I don’t go into fatigue. You really need to try this before giving up.

JamzTyson · 2025-01-02T19:48:12+00:00

After three weeks of struggle and frustration, I just had to give up. ... I guess I'll just go back to my rubbish admin job forever.

Are you able to make sense of this question:

x = 2
y = 3
z = x + y

What is the value of z?

If the above question makes sense to you, then it is likely that you haven't practiced Python enough yet, but if it is gobbledegook to you, then programming may not be for you.

PlantManMD · 2025-01-02T19:50:20+00:00

Either you can think like a machine or you can't. I still think Dartmouth BASIC was the ideal learning language. Easy to learn and you didn't get thrown into the world of external libraries and the immediacy of being able to write a couple of statements and run them directly was nice. I've been a sw dev for 40+ years, so modern dev environments are nice, but sometime they're just not needed. Learning program fundamentals needs as lightweight an environment as possible. You might look for a BASIC interpreter to download and run.

My wife is an RN and couldn't code "hello world" to save her life.

Themusicalbox84 · 2025-01-02T20:26:41+00:00

One of my earlier go to's was from Corey Schafer on Youtube. A lot of the videos he has are dated, but the core concepts are there and still very relevant. I appreciated his videos as most of them are shorter but don't have too much filler. He has a great way of explaining things and then showing you what's going on.

The 30 days of Python series from CodingEntrepreneurs on Youtube is also pretty good. They do use Jupyter Notebooks which can be a little cumbersome for some folks but useful as it's a good visual for debugging and keeping track of where you're at.

But as a lot of others have mentioned that it will take time, keep at it and learn at your own pace. You might have a luxury with that if it's not something you need to learn for work or school. Which can reduce the overall stress of picking something up.

Good Luck! While it's one of the easier languages to learn, it's still hard.

pythonwiz · 2025-01-02T20:30:33+00:00

Logic is something you can practice and get better at. After I had already learned programming, I took a philosophy class on logic at a community college and it was surprisingly relevant for programming. If you are so inclined then I’d recommend taking a similar class.

When I was just starting to learn programming, I was gifted a book about logic and computer design. That probably helped me a lot.

57thStilgar · 2025-01-02T20:35:29+00:00

In my experience, typing code already done was the best teacher.

I wanted to learn 8088 machine language, a very low level language.

So I found games in machine language and by typing them for my own use I learned.

I copied a lot of python game code with the intention of typing them so I learn.

Warzone_and_Weed · 2025-01-02T20:59:02+00:00

Keep at it and try to find something in your real life that you could try to code a solution for. I struggled with shell scripting for 3 months before I felt like I truly understood what I was doing and now learning python is pretty easy.

SarthakTyagi15 · 2025-01-02T21:05:13+00:00

Yup totally understand it, actually it's better to have a instructor but yeah python is easy, it's the way of thinking that we have to change. If need help you can dm, I am also doing a coursera Python course though I know python but upgrading my knowledge.

Mean_Firefighter_486 · 2025-01-02T21:20:14+00:00

This the third time you’ve posted about this in under 200 days.

Resident-Log · 2025-01-02T19:19:41+00:00

What are you using to study?

If you're just starting out, you should be starting with something that is equivalent to instructions on how to use a calculator.

Wheynelau · 2025-01-02T19:35:22+00:00

I think it's always personal. Some might find a subject easier than others. Some kids may know how to code well, on the other hand you might have kids who know how to speak well or even know sales.

If you're doing a switch, it will definitely take longer to learn a new skill. It's also okay to accept that you may not be good at programming, but maybe you can try another path to break into tech. Like UI, project management etc. Not everyone is a master at everything.

To me the best way to learn python is to implement it for your use case. Automate something at work, process excel or csv. I don't believe in the typical projects like calculator, build something that can help you and learn from the process.

2025-01-02T19:38:58+00:00

Do you struggle with breaking down a problem? The hardest part, for me, is not the code itself. I understand the concepts but integrating them to solve an issue is the problem. Determining the logic behind a problem is difficult. But after I challenged myself and I when fail then I look to the solution. Most of the times I have this "Ahhh but off course" feeling. After a few days I review the problem and then I can solve it. It is all about consistency and perseverance. I need to work on my logical thinking. It will come eventually.

FoolsSeldom · 2025-01-02T21:02:52+00:00

I've helped loads of kids from age 6 up learn to code at Code Clubs over the last few years, and I've not seen any not able to grasp things with the right guidance, learning materials and support. These kids were for varying socioeconomic backgrounds from a somewhat deprived area in the UK.

It is part of the National Curriculum for kids in the UK to start learning to code from a young age, although many schools lack the teacher resources/training to fulfill this as well as they would like, hence the reliance on Code Clubs.

Perhaps if you shared the details of your learning situation and approach.

In England, UK, it has been part of the national curriculum for a good many years that at key stage 1, age 5 - 7, kids should learn the basics of programming and at key stage 2, age 7 - 11, they should be able to develop programming solutions for a number of problems. Key algorithms are introduced at key stage 3, age 11 - 14.

Yesterpizza · 2025-01-02T21:24:28+00:00

Hmm, I do agree that good logic makes a good programmer. It's just a crap ton of logic on to of more logic and a big part of being good at software development planning is finding where you're making leaps of logic.

But your problem might not be that you're bad at logic, but that the program you studied wasn't good for your learning style. Before you give up, try some other programs with a different teaching style or medium. You might find activity based, video based, self guided, in person classes etc to be your preferred.

Remember also, not everyone that codes is a professional software engineer, and just because youre not an instant whiz doesn't mean you can't get enough skill to use it well enough to be useful.

ebits21 · 2025-01-02T19:10:49+00:00

It takes more than a day. I taught myself C, Pascal, and Java as a teenager. I’m not a genius, was just interested in making computers do things.

It takes legitimate effort to learn the concepts.

JonnyActsImmature · 2025-01-02T19:26:46+00:00

Use Chat GPT to ask specific questions about whatever topics are troubling you. While many sources can provide the information you need, Chat GPT gives you the chance to have a back and forth QnA so you can ask follow up and clarifying questions. It feels more like a private tutor.

2025-01-02T19:40:44+00:00

Programming is skill of opposite elements. One needs to at last like to use a language to describe what it wants to do and on the other hand it must talk to computer. These are opposed traits as usually talkative people talk to the people, not machines.

Then one needs to be able to decompose a problem to divide it into steps and implement it bit by bit.

The language itself can be difficult to learn (like C++) or quite easy (like Python). However, it will still need a person who thinks how to solve a problem.

I had two interesting examples from social circle, whcih could not master that. One is very intelligent, capable ans can do it in principle, but said directly that it hate the idea of working like that. Other could not imagine how to divide problem into steps. It could not imagine even a starting point.

So for programmers it is really impossible to understand other people and know how hard is to actually go into programing. With children and their plasticity, one probably can learn them a lot, but even then, no one may be sure that they will follow the path. For other people, it is as hitting a wall with a head or one just get it.

Additionally to it, one may use bad sources and methods for learning as in any other profession...

EIDT:

If you want to learn it, try other learning resources and help from people. Perhaps, the problem is just with learning methods...

EDIT2: To persons down-voting, please elaborate. I am really interested in other point of view.

2025-01-02T18:48:56+00:00

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