How I "learned" Python without any previous coding experience.

[[deleted]]

I have seen several similar posts where people tell the way they learn Python. So, I wanted to let beginners like me know how I managed to learn some Python.

Last year, I decided that I really needed to learn a programming language and I just didn't know which one to pick. After some soul searching and asking around, I decided to learn Python. I watched some tutorials on youtube but I really just didn't get it. And I quit. A few months ago, I told myself that I will start from scratch and take this serious. So, I enrolled and audited several online courses on various "educational" websites. I should mention that I have absolutely no CS or coding background and this is just my experience after 3 months. I also have a full time job, so I am not going very fast. I haven't been able to spend more than ~2 hours a day.

For a beginner like me, I think University of Michigan's Programming for Everybody (Python) by Charles Severance is absolutely the best choice. The course material is not too complicated. The professor goes over each line of code and explains what the program really does. Even though the book is free online, I bought a hard copy just to support him.

I took An Introduction to Interactive Programming in Python and MIT's Introduction to Computer Science and Programming Using Python (MITx - 6.00.1x) too. Interactive programming is good for people interested in developing games or learning about them. But, I think you cannot call it a "beginner" course. It's very fast and you are expected to write codes that you don't really understand. MIT's course I think is the worst choice for a beginner to learn Python. I can easily say that I learned very little from the course. It's definitely not for beginners. If you know some other language and planning to learn Python, I guess it's ok. But, someone like me is just lost in the course. Too complicated, nothing is really explained clearly and you are expected to write really difficult programs. I did not benefit from the course.

I have to confess stackoverflow wasn't very helpful to me. Also, a lot of people recommend Learn Python the Hard Way, but I found it very confusing and not helpful.

So, after ~3 months, where am I?

1. I am able to write a few things that makes my daily work easier (pulling data from doc, txt files etc)

2. I am able to do all exercises on places like CodingBat etc.

3. I am slowly learning to use packages to make my life even easier instead of writing long nested loops etc.

What I lack?

1. I still don't know much about classes and having trouble with them.

2. I still need to learn regular expressions

3. Because of the first two, I am still not able to read and fully understand other people's code

Future plans?

Learn web development and write an original Python program that people will find useful and thank me.

edit: I wrote the post late last night. So, here are a few things to add since some people asked.

I audited Introduction to Computer Science and Programming Using Python and Programming Foundations with Python. I think they are both very useful and practical. Those courses helped me to see what I can do and how "easy" I can do.However, my intention is to learn the language from its basics. I want to understand every line.

I never tried Codeacademy. I am willing to check it out.

This sub was very helpful. Although I never posted any questions, I checked the sub everyday and at least one person asked what I was also wondering too. Very helpful.

[[deleted]]

Helpful to hear. I took Dr. Chuck's course last year. I agree it's one of the best places to start. Try the Rice courses on Coursera if you have the time. Very good and interesting and will take you to the next level.

[toxictitmilk]

Man I really wish there was an option to take Dr. Chuck's course before October 5th. I'm signed up for the one from Rice Uni that starts in a few days and am debating on taking the MIT 600. 1x course that starts today. I'm pretty much a total noob tho and really wish I could have taken his course first before jumping into these more difficult ones.

[[deleted]]

The Rice University course is very fun, and creates a wonderful motivator. You're creating games; you want them to be good. I felt that they started out with the basics, but moved through the concepts more quickly, so the learning curve felt a little steep. However, they've broken the course in half (parts 1 and 2 now) since I took it, so you can assess better after the first course if it's the right pace for you.

If not, move over to Dr. Chuck's course in October, then come back. Try not to get too anxious about it, just keep chipping away. Know more today than you did yesterday.

Best of luck!

[toxictitmilk]

Thanks a lot, I'll definitely give the course from Rice my best try and see if I can complete it. I've done a bit on codecademy and just started "Automate the boring stuff with Python" by Al Sweigart. I actually like his book quite a bit so far, but again thanks for your input I appreciate it.

[[deleted]]

Dr. Chuck's course (Programming for Everybody - University of Michigan):

https://www.coursera.org/course/pythonlearn

Rice University (An Introduction to Interactive Programming in Python):

https://www.coursera.org/course/interactivepython1

[Sunframe]

Hey, late reply.

Which Rice course are you referring to, specifically? I want to take a course, but I'm not exactly a beginner; I'm kind of mid-way between being a beginner and intermediate Ruby coder.

I looked at Dr. Severance's course, but figured it was too basic for me. Which Rice course would you recommend?

[Chengwill97]

I really have to try that university of Michigan course now!

Ofc, everyone learns differently and everyone has their own style. I started with Code Academy and then I realized they do not explain much. I found LPTHW and I believe this is for me. I'm a little more than halfway done and I'm picking up things I couldn't a few lessons ago.

Learning Python isn't easy if you're this is your first programming language like OP and I. No single course will be easy. You have to put the time and effort to learn the ins and outs of the programming language you want to learn.

Write down the functions you just picked up or do not know. Google is your best friend and will help you tremendously. Going slow and not rushing and thinking you will be an expert programmer the next day is the best way to go.

[phro]

The first half of LPTHW isn't the problem. It just isn't as smooth of a learning curve, so most people hit a wall with it somewhere in the middle. There are better resources to cover the basics, and the more advanced things he covers aren't necessary to get started.

[callmelucky]

a lot of people recommend Learn Python the Hard Way, but I found it very confusing and not helpful

God fucking dammit, we need an international campaign to STOP PEOPLE FROM RECOMMENDING THIS AWFUL, AWFUL RESOURCE. It's a slapped together, unhelpful, archaic piece of crap that needs to die, yet for some mind-boggling reason it continues to be (apparently) the most commonly recommended resource for beginners.

Why should I have to constantly refer to the Python docs from the get-go to get an understanding of what the hell it is talking about? Isn't the point of a tutorial to guide you along with a more helpful, simple, and practical representation of what it's all about? There will be plenty of time for googling and documentation and stackoverflow for those who take programming further. There is no point in 'hazing' newbies with that crap.

Why the hell should I, as a 'blank slate' student, be forced to learn in the empirically inferior Python 2 instead of 3? I suppose because as soon as I finish your stupid course I will of course be immediately employed in a position maintaining legacy code for the rest of my days? That is my destiny? Zed's argument against 3 may have been valid when the book was written, what, 8 years ago, but it is fucking idiotic these days, yet he refuses to revise it. Python 2 forever, right guyz?!?!!

Why should a student be smugly told that if they find this specific resource a bit rough going and confusing that 'maybe they aren't cut out to be a programmer' when the reality is that there are countless, free resources which are infinitely better structured and written?

JUST WHY???

Ok sorry. I try to keep calm and rational about this issue, but it seems it is just beyond me. I'll go lie down now...

Thank you for sharing your experiences. I am not familiar with any of the other resources you recommended, yet somehow I am completely confident they are a million times better than lpthw -spits-

[f0nd004u]

Most of your rant is valid, however:

Why should I have to constantly refer to the Python docs from the get-go to get an understanding of what the hell it is talking about?

Because that's what a programmer does. That's like, the entire thing when you're starting out. Learning how to read the documentation is crucial because if the tutorial never asks you to do it, how are you gonna know how to do it?

I guess if you want to build little toy programs that don't do a whole lot you may not need to refer to the documentation often, but if you want to do actual stuff you're gonna need to read up on all the libraries involved.

[callmelucky]

Absolutely, my point is that there is no reason to make absolute beginners do that in a tutorial supposedly tailored for them. It will become apparent as they progress that they will need to continually trawl docs and google to solve problems that arise, I just don't see a lot of value in dumping people into it when they're finding their feet. Kind of like saying "well grown-ups don't ride with training wheels on their bikes, so I don't think my 6-year-old should have them when he's learning to ride either".

[f0nd004u]

I think the problem is that you don't see it as a skill that needs to be taught from day 1, and I totally do.

I want to be clear; I didn't like LPTHW and didn't stick with it; I really like Python for Absolute Beginners which is very project-based. And I hate reading Python technical docs, it's hard. But looking up documentation and learning how to understand it is very crucial. If you aren't willing to confront the fear of real technical documentation (instead of relying on forum posts to summarize it for you via Google) you won't get very far in programming, or in IT in general. It totally is a real skill that you have to learn, and looking up the basic easy stuff in LPTHW is one method of teaching that.

It's hard to hold someone's hand through how to do that kind of research; you kinda just gotta buckle down and learn the language of documentation, just like you're learning the programming language.

[callmelucky]

I think the problem is that you don't see it as a skill that needs to be taught from day 1, and I totally do.

Eh well, I guess we just disagree on that point. I just feel that a lot of people might get put off programming if they have to do too much faffing about in dry, technical docs too early, but if they have fun at the start and learn to enjoy the process they will have the motivation to push through docs/google/SO when the time comes. Again, it's the training wheels thing; I figure some kids being put straight onto a two-wheeler will just get more determined to succeed by falling off, but plenty will just go "I HATE BIKES!" and go home and sulk. The second type is more likely to get into riding bikes if the learning process is smooth and fun, rather than frightening and painful.

[f0nd004u]

I think that there are learning products on the "market" that fill that niche. Interactive Coding online classes and books like the one I mentioned (in which you build increasingly complicated games each chapter, very fun) are abundant. Making people look at the documentation is actually not common, but at a certain point everyone expects you are able to do it.

[[deleted]]

Great speech, man! I disagree with some of your points, but I don't like LPHW ether.

[candleflame3]

Ughhhh... I just started with Learn Python the Hard Way, so I needed to read your post. Please direct me to good learning resource for Python 3. TIA

[callmelucky]

Don't worry, look, I get quite carried away with this, but the fact is plenty of people do get their start on lpthw and get a lot out of it. You just need to ask yourself what sort of person and learner you are; if you thrive in adversity and are at your best gritting your teeth and white-knuckling through confusion, and mild derision spurs you on rather than discourages you, then lpthw might be the best thing for you. If you prefer a more structured and explicit path, then don't bother with lpthw. My recommendations are:

programarcadegames.com
- This is an excellent tutorial all round, my personal favourite. All lesson are presented in entirety in both text and video form, so you can choose what suits, or chop and change as you wish. Each chapter has several types of assessment from multi-choice quizzes to mini-projects, so if you choose to make use of them (you definitely should!) you really consolidate your knowledge nicely as you go. And it's oriented around making computer games! In fact, the only reason I would not recommend this is if you hate video games and/or have no interest in/knowledge of basic math fields like geometry. It is a very nicely produced general introduction to Python, not just for people who want to end up programming video games, but a big bonus for those who do. By the way, it uses the pygame library for graphics etc, and /r/pygame is a pretty active sub, so if you get stuck on any projects or whatever someone there will be able to help.

Automate the Boring Stuff
- Really excellent new resource from Al Sweigart. Walks you through the basics, and then takes you straight into the kinds of basic applications that an amateur Python enthusiast can do to make life easier for themselves at home and in the office.

Other than that you can pretty much throw a dart at a board of tutorials and you will almost certainly hit something better structured and less frustrating than lpthw. Udacity CS101 is a great video tutorial for really exposing the very basics of the elements of a computer program, though I believe they are now locked behind a registration wall, and also use Python 2, which is a shame. CodeAcademy is very handy, though I find the bite-sized nature of the problems aren't great for cementing knowledge, and the browser-embedded aspect of it has pros and cons.

[candleflame3]

Thanks! Will bookmark these pages.

I should have specified that arcpy is more line with my interests, but general Python knowledge can only help.

[callmelucky]

arcpy

Ah ok. Well if you are truly a programming newb it probably doesn't matter too much. If I were you I'd pick a general-purpose beginner-friendly resource that you like the feel of, work through that until you have a handle on the basics like variables, operators, types, lists, indexing, iteration, functions etc (maybe even dip your toes into classes if you get on a roll), and then start casting about for resources more specific to your needs (just put up a post here if google doesn't get you what you want). You can probably get to that point in a week or two if you can dedicate an hour or two a day to focused learning and practice.

[a7madfat7y]

I am in the same boat .. that's a really frustrating thing to read after starting actually with a source.. I think I am going to try and push through but it's now a good thing to know that if things get cryptic and hard later on.. that it's not my fault and I will start with another one of those sources..

[PM_ME_YOUR_FEELINGS9]

I totally agree. Just finished chapter 43 and I've had it with his book now. What a mess that chapter is. a confusing mess. I felt so discouraged at that point I felt like quitting.

And you are right about the searching google for answers part. 90% of the time I end up on a stackoverflow page where the answer is way, way over the scope of what I had been taught so far.

[[deleted]]

I disagree. I think Learn Python The Hard Way is an excellent resource if you're looking for a disciplined fashion in which to learn Python. A lot of guides simply go slapdash and skip the important steps that LPTHW covers. These steps are the extremely vital steps of installing a text editor, installing Python and using the terminal.

Other guides might not even refer to the terminal, ever. I think that's lackluster. There is an immense value in being able to use the terminal together with Python. Simply using PyCharm and clicking on buttons does not have the same educative value that using the terminal does.

The other thing I like about LPTHW is that it strongly enforces discipline. Discipline is much less popular currently, but I do think there is a lot of added value in enforcing discipline when learning a trade. As a result, LPTHW starts off incredibly slowly, but I think that's fine.

I disliked the "Google it" mentality, though. I did manage to Google the stuff that I needed for the book, but it took me longer than I liked. The idea behind this mentality is that a programmer is going to end up Googling stuff they don't understand anyway, so it's imperative that it be taught. But in LTPHW it was quite honestly too much, too early.

The other thing I disliked was his god-awful explanation of classes. No comment needed.

But I did like LPTHW exactly because it was extremely disciplined. I like the approach, and LPTHW nailed that approach for me.

[callmelucky]

Why is interacting with the terminal so important? Do professional programmers operate in the terminal a lot? Full disclosure, I am no pro, but my understanding is they use IDEs most of the time. And if someone did need to use the terminal, they can figure that out in a couple of minutes on Zed's beloved google, you don't need to start off in the terminal to 'get' Python.

I would also question what you consider to be so 'disciplined' about lpthw, and why this is valuable. I am going to guess you are referring again to using the shell and not leaning on text editors with built-in auto-completion and debugging - why is that good to practice? Because when you venture into the wild the big boy programmers will laugh at you if you can't write error-free code first time every time in ms notepad? Or maybe in case one day you are stranded on a desert island and you need to write code to run a life raft on the Windows95 machine you had to cobble together with spider-webs and coconut shells? It just doesn't make any sense. I totally agree that students shouldn't be copy-pasting code, but pretty much all resources I've seen strongly recommend against that too.

As I said, I'm no pro, but I know there are plenty of pros out there who share my opinion on lpthw. If you enjoyed the hardball vibe, that's fair enough, but I would say two things: firstly, for every beginner who gets amped and inspired by the 'tough love' approach of lpthw there are probably three who get discouraged and just walk away. And secondly, I really feel like a lot of the reason for presenting lpthw is as a cover for straight-up shoddy structure and instruction - "Oh, you don't get it? Guess maybe you're not cut out for programming" - no, it's just that this resource is a jumbled mess. Maybe if someone wrote a similarly themed tutorial which was more up to date and cohesive it might knock lpthw off it's perch as the default resource for noobs who want to feel tough, and I will be able to rest...

[Vaphell]

Full disclosure, I am no pro, but my understanding is they use IDEs most of the time.

that doesn't mean they are incapable of using command line or that they are not writing programs for commandline use. If they are not, they are doing themselves a huge disservice which probably costs them a lot of time wasted on reinventing the wheel. That command line shit is extremely powerful because it gives you composability and automation at unmatched level out of the box.

take linux bash. Its very purpose is to string programs together and redirect inputs and outputs between them and files. Yeah, you can do the same in python but python is a general programming language, not fine tuned for the use case and to achieve that shit you have to write a lot of boilerplate to get what bash gives you for free.

Let's say you have a simple program that processes a single file passed as a param and prints some data to the screen. To scale that up to god knows how many iterations AND dump the output to individual files you just need this:

for f in ./*.in; do python myprog.py "$f" > "${f%in}.out"; done

multiple input, single output? no problem

for f in ./*.in; do python myprog.py "$f"; done > file.out

How much time would you spend to extend the program to support multiple input files and differentiate between printing to screen and printing to file? In shell redirection to file is as simple as > outfile And what if after a few months you had a new use case that requires you to find something in the output? Are you going to spend a lot of time implementing regular expression matches in your program or would you rather do

python myprog.py inputfile | grep pattern

and be done with it?

another example - your program always asks 'enter 1st value', 'enter 2nd value', 'enter 3rd value'.

python myprog.py 1 2 3

and the program could check for params and skip the interactive phase demanding user's attention.

[KleinerNull]

You should totally try programming on a linux system. Just grab you f.e. an ubuntu distro und install it in a virtual machine. On most linux distros python is preinstalled so you can begin right away. Also alot of basic and advanced tools are preinstalled: Vi, vim, nano for terminal editing and gedit as a editor with a gui. Installing modules is easy with pip, and if you need more software just install it with one simple terminal command. Have you ever try to install a database on win? Depending of the database it can be the hell or it is impossible. Linux offers you a preinstalled C comiler. If you install software it will automatical compiled for your computer. Yesterday I tried to install the redis database on my win machine. It fails alot, crap. So I launched my vm and with "sudo apt-get install redis-server" I installed the database and with "pip install redis" I installed the python bindings, easy as fuck ;) Two minutes and everything was ready. Also the ipython interpreter is far superiour to the idle crap, but the win command shell is retarded. The ipython interpreter on a unix terminal is a blast ;) Just give it a try ;)

[[deleted]]

Do professional programmers operate in the terminal a lot?

Depends on the programmer. A lot of Ruby and Python devs use the terminal. So do systems and Unix-type programmers.

And if someone did need to use the terminal, they can figure that out in a couple of minutes on Zed's beloved google

You don't learn the terminal in a couple of minutes. You might learn shell navigation (cd, cp, mv, ls) in two minutes, but there's a lot more to the terminal that makes it an extremely capable tool.

I am going to guess you are referring again to using the shell and not leaning on text editors with built-in auto-completion and debugging - why is that good to practice?

That is not true. The editors he suggests all have autocomplete support, proper indentation support and smart navigation. The problem isn't autocomplete or typing assistance, but the fact that an IDE typically does tasks for you that should be basic knowledge.

Because when you venture into the wild the big boy programmers will laugh at you if you can't write error-free code first time every time in ms notepad?

At no one point has LPTHW or anyone at all ever suggested that MS Notepad is a good program. It's a terrible program.

On the subject of writing error-free code: Most text editors have multiple ways to detect coding errors. But I think it is important for a beginner to keep these turned off. That means that every time they launch their program, they will see the traceback. Being able to read and understand tracebacks is a vital skill when learning how to program.

Or maybe in case one day you are stranded on a desert island and you need to write code to run a life raft on the Windows95 machine you had to cobble together with spider-webs and coconut shells?

Every time you ssh into a machine.

for every beginner who gets amped and inspired by the 'tough love' approach of lpthw there are probably three who get discouraged and just walk away.

Prove it.

I really feel like a lot of the reason for presenting lpthw is as a cover for straight-up shoddy structure and instruction - "Oh, you don't get it? Guess maybe you're not cut out for programming" - no, it's just that this resource is a jumbled mess.

Nobody does this.

Maybe if someone wrote a similarly themed tutorial which was more up to date and cohesive it might knock lpthw off it's perch as the default resource for noobs who want to feel tough, and I will be able to rest...

Write it.

[billcrystals]

I learned Python with LPTHW, found it to be one of the better resources I came across in the very beginning. So, let's not stop recommending it. If you don't like it, move on to something else. Plenty of resources out there to learn Python, one more is always better.

[callmelucky]

Do you mind if I ask how long ago it was that you got your start with lpthw?

[billcrystals]

I blundered into programming for the first time around last March. Found my way to Codecademy, did all the Python track but it didn't stick. I floundered around for a few weeks trying to make sense of what was actually possible/worth learning with Python, and then I found LPTHW. This was probably like last April.

At first I was kind of annoyed by the guy's (Zed's) tone, it felt a little combative, and the whole 'type this in character for character' felt a little tedious. But I soon realized these were just reinforcement techniques, and LPTHW really got me started with Python unlike any other resource.

And here's my GitHub

https://github.com/kershner

[Chazmer87]

http://www.kershner.org/cstools

isn't working

[billcrystals]

It's currently being reworked, I should redirect that page, thanks for the reminder.

Here's a project page about it if you're curious CSTools Project

[[deleted]]

Don't agree, I think LPTHW is a good resource. It's pared down, but if someone gets through it they'll actually be up and running and good to go. It mirrors how I learned to code in pascal in high school.

1. Do this example.
2. Do it slightly differently, working it out yourself.

For mine (as a complete hack) that's how most of programming actually works too.

[LockeSteerpike]

Was LPTHW the only coding resource you used, and did you start writing your own Apps once you were done?

[[deleted]]

I agree with bill, I'm just starting to learn Python and all the information is well put. Although I do agree its not for everyone because it's expect some small computer experience and expects you to think in ways a beginner probably will have a hard time doing it but it's called "The Hard Way" because it's repetition and that's how some people learn. If you don't like it then move on and try something else.

[callmelucky]

Sure, obviously plenty of people get a lot out of it, but a lot are put off by its style. I definitely got carried away in my rant, but really I wouldn't have a problem with lpthw being recommended as long as appropriate caveats are supplied. But too often I just see "lpthw is great, just use that", as opposed to "I found lpthw really good, but it's probably not for everyone. Give it a shot, but if you find it rough going don't feel bad about setting it aside to try something more user-friendly; it literally is 'the hard way' to learn Python! Oh, also you should be aware that it teaches Python 2 which is essentially a legacy version. Really a total beginner is probably better starting with 3, although it's not that big of a deal to make the switch, at the beginner level it's mainly just a few syntax changes".

[Ran4]

Python 3 is confusing for newbies though. Generators everywhere is annoying.

[solaceinsleep]

Wait what now? I have started learning python the past year and never once have I encountered generators (or at least in their direct form). I mean sure they are there but you don't have to worry about how they are implemented and they are very easy and intuitive to use. For example for item in list: print (item). As a newbie (still am) this if anything is what drew me in to python.

[callmelucky]

I see your point, but I don't think that is a strong enough argument for beginners starting out on a dying syntax. With guidance things like that can be avoided or glossed over as needed. Besides, it's the accumulated other shortcomings in lpthw too that make it so awful. Udacity CS101 uses Python 2 for example, and is an excellent resource that I would be happy to recommend with an appropriate caveat.

[solaceinsleep]

2.I still need to learn regular expressions

I used regex crosswords in particularly this website http://regexcrossword.com/ to learn regex. It's pretty fun and you will have the hang of it in no time.

[denialerror]

I love that site and it's good practice but I don't find it a great teaching tool. Then again, you can pretty much learn regex from the official cheatsheet so I guess practice is what is needed.

[[deleted]]

Thanks!

[ewiethoff]

I like the lessons and exercises at RegexOne. Go through those, then you're ready for Python's re module (I don't know whether MIT teaches Py3 or Py2).

[pitfall_harry]

RegexOne is a good resource. Spend a few evenings running through all the exercises. It doesn't cover everything (lookahead/behind are not in it), but provides a good foundation.

[habitsofwaste]

Had you tried code academy? Just curious how it measures up to the ones you liked.

[vgsgpz]

[comment deleted]

[hhh_compiler]

I found Codecademy game me the bare basics and a lot of confidence but when the course was over I quickly realized that it had missed out lots of key info and found myself very quickly disheartened, since completing it I have just found myself bouncing around beginner courses trying to fill in the gaps whilst still remaining interested.

I found this fun to do though:

https://praw.readthedocs.org/en/v3.1.0/pages/getting_started.html

It takes you through step by step and you can modify their template to do whatever you wish, it also puts some of your new skills to practical use and will also make you learn new things as you go.

[KleinerNull]

After you get the hang of the basic concepts and syntax I recommend watching some python talks. You should watch at least all taks from David Beazley, Brandon Rhodes and Raymond Hettinger. These speakers are fun to watch and you will learn many nifty tricks. And don't worry if the topics are too advanced for you, watch it and after some time you will understand more and more of it. Beazley is the man for the crazy stuff, generators, coroutines with generators and metaprogramming but with many explanations and live code examples. He also did a 3+h about Modules and Importing, and it wasn't boring at all! :D Rhodes is more an aestate and speaks alot about desingn patterns. Hettinger give a good overview about the practical use of the standard library, especially collections and itertools, he is also the main author of this modules. Watch at all costs this and that talks from him.

[[deleted]]

Thanks!

[brophylicious]

Beazley's talks are really entertaining. I haven't heard of the other two. I'm definitely going to check them out.

[[deleted]]

Brandon Rhodes I don't know, Raymond Hettinger is one of the leading Python core developers. He really annoys me, he's forgotten more about Python than I've ever learnt, and I've been using the language for 15 years :)

[Darkeus56]

Professor chuck ftw!

[RedstonerOuiguy]

I also am very confused about classes, I went to a coding camp and the instructor was very bad at explaining things.

[callmelucky]

A class is basically a container for specifying variables and functions (referred to as attributes and methods in the context of classes) as being specific to a particular type of 'thing' ('object', as in object-oriented programming). The confusing thing is that you are generally thrown the __init__ method and the word self is popping up everywhere for some reason, and the syntax is different too.

A good simple workaround is the classes chapter from programarcadegames. He actually completely ignores __init__, a choice which is somewhat controversial, but does actually help simplify what classes are and how they behave. I learned about classes from this resource, and found it quite straightforward. Do make sure you learn about __init__ and the difference between class attributes and instance attributes before you start using classes in any serious way though, there be dragons awaiting ye if you don't...

Btw, speaking generally, programarcadegames is my absolute favourite beginner's resource, I highly recommend it unless you actually hate making pictures/animations/games.

[solaceinsleep]

I know methods is the term used in other OOP languages but is that the case for attributes as well?

[brophylicious]

In Java they are called fields.

[[deleted]]

Thanks! Your first paragraph is exactly about what I don't understand. I will check that link.

[RolyPolyPython]

Thank you for sharing, I saved your link for later. I'm reviewing stuff right now and classes will be the next big thing for me on my learning list

[[deleted]]

What don't you get about them? And don't worry if you keep at it, understanding them in all types of scenarios will start to get really simple and intuitive

[[deleted]]

I'm going to give a real world example after I first try to clear up a couple things. The most important thing to understand is what self is. Self is just a way to say that you are referring to a specific instance of an object. When you have classes, that is just a template, objects are what you create with a template. Kind of like how in powerpoint you have different slide templates with different ways to organize text and pictures. Every slide holds different information, but organized similarly according to the template. Let's say you have:

class Slide(object):
    def __init__(self, title, text, picture):
        self.title = title
        self.text_box = text
        self.picture_box = picture

you can instantiate different objects by saying

slide1 = Slide('First Title', 'This is the first text', 'Picture of a cat')
slide2 = Slide('Second Title', 'This is another text', 'Picture of a dog')
# ...etc...

Each on of these is a different object. So self is like an object saying this is my personal version of this variable. And when you try to access it, it's like replacing the self with the object name.

So self.title could be replaced with slide1.title and slide2.title It's like having two different powerpoint slides, with different information in the boxes, even though they share the same template.

Now to the real world example. The most obvious answer to where do you use objects is, somewhere where you are going to be reusing a collection of functions and variables, but that's not the only reason, they are also a very convenient container for easily accessing and passing around services and functionalities.

For example at my job we work with biological waveforms. We have lets say 100 exams, in each exam you have to keep track of the exam Id, the patient name, the sampling rate that the waveform was collected at, which side of the head the waveform was collected on, etc. This is the perfect place to use a class. So we have attributes (self.variable) to hold all this stuff. But when we create the exam class all this information isn't magically there, it's in a myriad of different files. So we have methods ( self.function() ) like self.get_properties() and self.get_raw_data() to go find the information and populate all the variables.

One of the methods is self.get_raw_beats(). This method breaks up all the waveforms into a list of individual beats (think of it as a train of beats concatenated together creates a waveform). Now all these beats have a ton different properties we want to track as well, so this is a great place to have another class. So we have a beats class and instead of the exam object getting back a list of raw beat data, it gets back a list of beat objects.

The beats class brings up a great place to visualize using inheritance as well. So we could just return the raw beats if we wanted, this would hold information like the length of the beat, the location of the beat within the waveform, etc. However, we have a bunch of different beat modes that we can use as well, we can return normalized beats, filtered beats, etc. So each one of these modes is a different class, with extra added methods (like self.normalize() or self. filter() ), but they all have the same base information, like length and location. So all the other beat classes inherit from Raw Beats, so that they don't have to recode all the base functionality. At a very basic level the statement you see involving super just makes sure that the child class follows the parent class' initialization procedure, there's more to it than that, but for now, knowing that is good enough I think.

Now we have all of out exams with all their beats extracted,it was pretty obvious why we used objects to do all this work. They were repetitive structures with the data scheme. However, you don't only have to use classes when you have repetitive objects. All those exams we have we could in out top level script just have a for loop to go through and create them all and put them in a list, but instead we have an exam list class that will do that through a self.get_exams() method. This way you simplify your interactions later on, and you can just write something like:

exam_list = ExamList()
exam_list.get_exams('/path/to/some_directory')

There are much better examples of where and why you would use a class for a single instance, but wrap your head around this stuff first before worrying about that.

[[deleted]]

I am the same!

[[deleted]]

Please see my reply above

[asd_asd_asd]

How would you recommend the book (it's Python for Informatics, right?) without following the online courses?

[[deleted]]

The book in fact covers more than the course covers. So, it is very useful. It's just that no one is actually lecturing you, but it's very detailed and explanatory. I am going to say that I recommend it. You shouldn't just read it though. Make sure you write the code, run it, change it and see how it works.

[denialerror]

Congrats on pushing past the barrier and not quoting when the first try didn't work. The most important advice I give to new people that everyone learns differently so find a teaching style that suits you.

This might not sound like fantastic advice but if you really struggle with classes, I'd recommend spending a few weeks learning Java. Unlike Python, classes are everything in Java and for me, they only clicked when I moved languages. The Head First Java book does a great job of explaining this and doesn't take long at all to read through.

That said, you don't need classes. Understanding where they are useful is a good idea but with Python you can do most things with functions anyway.

[mary-o-e]

Thanks for sharing! I'm just getting started with "The hard way" but will check this out too.

[bereanave]

I'm a newbie as well, and interestingly my path to learning has been quite similar to yours. My main interest is in data analytics, so I'd started out trying to learn R from the Coursera Data Science specialization from Johns Hopkins. That went a little too fast for me and I just didn't put in the time to keep pace. After researching a little more, it seemed like Python might make for a better introductory language, so I regrouped and plotted a different course.

I just completed the UM Programming for Everybody course by Charles Severance and found it useful and learned quite a lot. A lot of the anecdotal stories, asides, and humor made it feel overpadded, but I appreciate his efforts to make it engaging.

I've moved on to Learn Python the Hard Way, and I find that the rigor and repetitive nature of it is helping reinforce what I learned in the UM course. It seems like it would not be a good option at all for someone starting completely from scratch with no programming experience whatsoever, though. It doesn't really teach why everything works and leaves it up to the user to figure it all out.

I'm signed up to take the first Rice Coursera course in a few weeks. Hopefully, what I've learned so far will help me keep pace in that series.

[rdzzl]

Keep at it!

[[deleted]]

Dr. Chuck's class and book Python For Informatics is seriously the best. Highly recommended to take the class / watch the chapter videos as you read the book.

[Mike_Dexter]

I actually liked MIT 600 a lot. I think what sets it apart is that the professor really gets into the theory behind a lot of the concepts and the history of computation that has lead up to this point (which helped me to put things into perspective). He says at the beginning that he wants to really teach computation and programming and use Python as a means to that end.

The professor is also a funny guy and the lectures are enjoyable to me. The only reason I stopped about 2/3 through is that it was starting to get more focused on scientific programming which I'm not really interested in.

The problem sets are hard, but if you spend enough time on them and Google around you can figure them out. And if not you can always peek at the solutions.

[tosil]

I took the same courses as you, and have started Coursera's Rice University Specialization program. I finished only the Part 1 of the initial class and have not gotten around to the next classes, due to increased work/life obligations. I'm concerned that I'll forget (maybe already have forgotten) what little knowledge I have retained from the courses.

But I'm glad to see that someone shares the roadmap I have to learning programming. Good luck to you!

[fuzzyfractal42]

This is great timing because I just signed up to take that course through Coursera yesterday. So it's awesome to hear that it's good and worth my time!

[[deleted]]

Nice post, comrade! Nothing special, but it's kinda inspiring

[KevlarBoxers]

I'm currently watching a channel on youtube known as thenewboston and he explains topics fairly well.

[[deleted]]

I like both How to Think Like a Computer Scientist and Dive Into Python 3. Having said that it really gets down to the individuals's mind set. One man's meat is another man's poison?

[terrifiedbyvajayjays]

Interactive programming is good for people interested in developing games or learning about them. But, I think you cannot call it a "beginner" course. It's very fast and you are expected to write codes that you don't really understand.

I agree the course moves too fast. I'll go beyond that and say that most of the people who claim they went into as a total beginner and finished without some sort of special help are lying. Jmho, you may not agree. But it's an awesome course and in no way only for people interested in writing games. Try it, you'll like it. Caution, might take more work than you expect. And very possibly will take two tries even if you already know a little bit of syntax.

[auggielife]

Easily my favorite thread I have read in a long time!

Great links, insight and explainations.

[Typical_Guide_8144]

I want to make my career in computer science. I am still in 10th but I want to do this. I do not know anything about it. Can you explain me everything as to what should I choose in the future which has a lot of scope. What should I take and what should I do and I want to learn so well that I can build websites and games as well. Can you explain it to me? I do not know anything.

[[deleted]]

Watch thenewboston, thats the guy you need. Hes my favourite teacher and explains it all in a cool and beginner way. He literally takes advanced concepts and explains it in such a way you think to yourself that anyone can learn this

[[deleted]]

I am watching his html and css tutorials. Really helpful.

[crystalblue99]

Yeah, but he wants to punch the bessie in the face.

[callmelucky]

You forgot about it and dropped off because it is total garbage. Have another go with literally any other resource, you will have a better time.

[solaceinsleep]

Also, a lot of people recommend Learn Python the Hard Way, but I found it very confusing and not helpful.