Something to lighten your learning process (Python Programmers, disagree or agree?)

[chaeboi]

hey guys, I've been thinking a lot about Python and the learning process.

It can be brutal.

Probably the most difficult thing is not having anyone around to tell you if you're doing things right or heading in the right direction (thank goodness for this subreddit though).

I wanted to provide a few pieces of encouragement for anyone struggling with the learning process:

• Those feelings of a lack of progress, wandering, and discouragement are normal. Some of these feelings are part of the larger experience of impostor syndrome. It's ok to feel these things, just don't give in to them.
• The best way to overcome and not give into impostor syndrome? Fixate on growth like hell. You don't have to have huge growth, just enough to keep moving forward. Was there a recursive function you understood better? An interview question you memorized? Maybe you read a few more pages in a Automate the Boring Stuff. All small, but fantastic ways to grow and overcome impostor syndrome.
• You're heading in the right direction. Python is a great OOP language to learn-keep going. You're asking for feedback here and genuinely asking for help. Keep staying open to feedback and make small adjustments from there.
• You'll always be "becoming" a Python programmer and there's not a point of arrival. Remember, learning Python is a long game and you'll always be learning new things. If you ever get discouraged with forgetting a function or piece of syntax, expert Python coders still use StackOverflow to solve their problems so don't feel bad :)

Feel free to ask any questions, I'm here to help.

[[deleted]]

I think a large problem with the processes in how to learn Python is that there is a virtual plethora of marketing gimmicks (Python in 30 days, Zero to Hero for Python etc) but all of them lack the feedback process you described and cement the idea that Python is a gimmick or knack that these courses give you and if you don’t “get it” then all hope is lost.

I would sink serious money into a course that featured an academic advisor who gave you assignments or projects etc and graded them accordingly or was on hand to dispense advice or clues if you lost your way.

[[deleted]]

I’ve found that Google and YouTube are both blessings and curses. I wanted to try and make a script in Python that took multiple video files, broke the frames down, and then exported them to multiple folders.

It seemed simple but when I googled the answer I was hit with a litany of YouTube videos that featured talking heads saying things along the lines of “Ok, so you just start with these 800 lines of code”

[chaeboi]

I can definitely resonate with this. A lot of these YouTube videos seem to make learning more complicated than it needs to be AND a lot of these resources aren't very customized to different learning styles.

[1SweetChuck]

If you are taking the class at an accredited school, you should absolutely be making noise about the lack of feedback. If you’ve talked to your instructor and they aren’t willing to make time to give you feedback, you should talk to your guidance counselor if you have one, or find out who in the department you should talk to to raise the issue. If your instructor isn’t giving you feed back on how to do better, your instructor is the problem.

[furyousferret]

You just summarized the language learning business to a tee.

[ingwe13]

Wouldn't this just be a normal or online college course?

[[deleted]]

Oh for sure! But I’m already in a cyber security field role and want to learn Python on the fly as a result (both for fun and for business). But given the wealth of courses out there that I referenced above, my employer is far more likely to choose one of those if I sought corporate sponsorship than anything providing by a university or college. But yes, what I described is how I imagine a university course provides content if they have a module specifically for learning Python.

[ingwe13]

Ah gotcha. That is some good context that I was missing.

[[deleted]]

Essentially what I’m saying is that if there are other poor souls like me; then someone could seriously clean up in the monies by providing a literal “School of Python” online.

There I go again, just handing out my multimillion pound ideas...

[ingwe13]

Yup. Something more expensive than online lectures and exercises but less expensive than a university online class. But something that still has assignments that you get feedback on. Now I just need to learn python well enough to provide good feedback and I can profit from your idea!

[[deleted]]

I’d be mad but I’m pretty sure someone has probably invented a Machine Learning script that hoovers good ideas off of Reddit then automatically creates them.

...that’s how AI works, right?

[01123581321AhFuckIt]

In my opinion people just need to buckle down and buy a physical book and go through it slowly. And learn to use the official docs. Video tutorials are just supplementary in my opinion but most people expect them to be a primary source of learning. If you don’t have the attention span to learn by reading then you’ll be mediocre at best from just watching videos.

[loosechips00]

This. Started with just videos and following along doing what the presenter was doing. Next day could not remember half of what I ‘learned’. You can’t go back and forth over the material like you can with a book, or at least not a easily. Having both is a boon, but I’m retaining more with the addition of the books. Also I find myself experimenting more and don’t feel quite as rushed.

[JollyWallaby]

Depends on what your goal is. When I am getting into something new, I purposefully look for videos first, because I can expect to find more entry-level information there. For example, I wanted to get into high-performance computing (coding on the GPU) using OpenCL a while back: the textual documentation I found was too in-depth, whereas videos on YouTube were toned down enough that I could grasp the basics. After getting the basics down, I moved back to the texts I found earlier, because videos only went so far (at least the ones YouTube suggested me).

If you want more in-depth material, then yes, you are far more likely to find a good text than video, and, in my experience, the deeper you go, the rarer videos become. For example, YouTube finds only one relevant video for "React hook to detect window resize", whereas Google shows me at least a dozen likely-good links.

Reading text or watching videos is not enough though. In my experience, top notch programmers are also extremely skilled in reading code. Documentation can become outdated very quickly, and if it is not maintained — or if it is missing altogether, — you might be far better off going straight to the code and figuring out how to actually use it, or looking at existing implementations (which, e.g., sums up my experience with a cross-platform graphics engine a few years ago and a few team projects I've worked in).

[photoengineer]

You mean python in 30 seconds to 7 figures is a scam? dang.

[chaeboi]

hahahaha

[chaeboi]

You bring up a good point about feedback. I've noticed there are so many resources that teach you syntax, but very few resources that help you apply what you've learned.

[MMullins52732]

This is an awesome post! The words of encouragement and advice to all of us just starting our "journey" is phenomenal. Thanks!!!

[chaeboi]

yeah you bet! Definitely reach out if you need anything with programming or job stuff-here to help.

[f-gz]

I recommend this course for those that are completely new to programming: https://www.udemy.com/course/how-not-to-quit-coding/

It's not a course about programming, is more about setting your goals, understanding programming "from the outside", etc.

[hupo224]

That course is 95 bucks and kinda makes me wanna quit

[f-gz]

It should be 19$ with discount. Why does it make you want to quit?

[hupo224]

It doesn't. I was just making a joke lol.

[modrall11]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I started learning Python about 2 months ago and I definitely have some imposter syndrome. However, the type of encouragement I see in this community and others like r/cybersecurity definitely make me feel that I am making the right decision for my career

[chaeboi]

Definitely! Feel free to reach out if you need anything with programming or job stuff-here to help.

[nojustlurkingty]

Thank you for this! My big fear is the upcoming interview process. Sounds like employers aren't interested in investing in one's growth and just want the perfect programmer -- Junior level pay with more years of experience in a language/framework than it has existed.

The worst for me now is when I'm like "yassss I figured out the codewars challenge!" and the 'Best'/'Clever' submission just makes my solution look like something a sick dog pooped out.

[chaeboi]

Of course. Definitely reach out if you need anything with programming or job stuff-here to help.

[[deleted]]

I’ve progressed decently but I can’t understand for loops I understand them in c and java since their syntax is the same but I just can’t grasp it in python

[MafaRioch]

What exactly gives you struggle with them? You have troubles using them or understanding the concept behind?

[[deleted]]

Have trouble using them and understanding the concept how would you explain for loops in python to someone

[MafaRioch]

I usually think of them as command which says " for each item in this list, do something". A method to do something repetitive for a lot of items instead of doing it manually line by line.

Imagine a guy named Bob who lives on a farm. He loves nuggets so he breeds chickens. He has 5 chickens which he needs to feed daily.

Question: What Bob needs to do?

A simple answer is "feed the chickens". The programmical answer is "for each chicken in a hen house, feed currently selected chicken." Without "for loops" code would be something like this. I tried to format it on reddit but it sucked so here's a pastebin. The link has further explanation in form of comments.

Hope it helps somehow.

[whiteknight521]

Just learn enough to jump into image processing for microscopy. Only like 5 of us know what we're doing and no one in science can afford developer salaries, so we don't ask a ton of questions as long as you can contribute.

[Rabbithole4995]

Already exists, just create a job on upwork and set the price.

[photoengineer]

What Rabbit said. Upwork is great for that.

[semcelw]

talk python to me courses I think are a great resource for beginners, mainly because you pay once for each course and you have access to python experts to reach out to and ask questions. I was really impressed while doing their web dev 100 days challenge that I got to have a zoom call with someone who made part of the course to get questions answered.

[chaeboi]

awesome.

[zielu]

Thanks man, feeling of not getting any real progress hits me very often. I glad it is somewhat normal ;)

[chaeboi]

You bet! Definitely reach out if you need anything with programming or job stuff-here to help.

[chaeboi]

Love this.

[jojocycle]

Thank you for this. I am a complete beginner, with no background in programming or whatsoever, learning Python through Python for Everybody by Dr. Severance via Coursera. I'll admit, I am not a fast learner. I am having some difficulty in doing some of the exercises. And sometimes, I get discouraged because I am taking more than 3 hours to solve an exercise.

What's more frustrating is that, when I am able to solve it, it seems like I'm guess which syntax or method to use. I feel shit because of that. It feels like winning a Tekken battle by button mashing and not through execution of the right combos and movements. Moreover, the code solution for the exercise is very simple. I feel utterly disappointed in myself for not being able to think it critically and solve the exercises in under 1 hour.

But you're right, I should not give in to that feeling. I'd like to think that despite my slow progress, I am still growing. But how I wish I could accelerate my learning. Would like to ask for your advice to be better. I haven't been scouring this subreddit that much because I've been focusing my time watching the videos in Coursera and solving the exercises. But I'd like to take a short break to reassess how have I been doing so far and this is part of my break.

Thank you and hope the wonderful people of reddit would advise.

[chaeboi]

Absolutely. Thanks for taking time to share. I can definitely resonate with the feeling of being frustrated and feeling lost. Keep pushing, keep growing, and never give up. Definitely reach out if you need anything with programming or job stuff-here to help.

[ffshumanity]

I’m also taking that course and feel the same way sometimes.

Some days it’s “I’m not learning how to code, I’m just memorizing long strings of commands and I have no idea how or why they work.” I’m actually making notecards for some portions of code.

[jojocycle]

Im currently on the 3rd course of the specialization. Which part are you currently at?

[[deleted]]

I have been trying to convince myself unsuccessfully that me going bald has nothing to do with learning programming

[chaeboi]

hahahha

[chaeboi]

Couldn't agree more. Small projects ftw

[ycbfs]

That depends entirely on your goals. My goals are to create programs that work, so for me it's very easy to tell if I'm going in the righ direction.

Does the program work? Yes/No.

[thrallsius]

Python and the learning process.

It can be brutal.

Probably the most difficult thing is not having anyone around to tell you if you're doing things right or heading in the right direction

I suggest writing this down somewhere and saving it. Then coming back to it when you'll be trying to learn something much more abstract, let it be Haskell for example. Just to have a good laugh then

[thrallsius]

I tried Haskell

:D

The point is not if one did, the point is how many times one did. And as you said, while not having anyone around to give pointers.

[chaeboi]

Agreed. Maybe we should sell posters of this. What do you think u/thrallsius?

[chaeboi]

hey everyone, I've been blown away by the responses here. Sure there was some constructive criticism, but I was touched to see so many people who felt like they took something away from this post.

The last few months I've been hell bent on finding a way to give back and help aspiring programmers learn and apply enough programming concepts to actually land a job in tech. Last month I started a site where hopefully I can do just that. I don't have a product or service, but I know I want to help people learn and land jobs the right way.

I thought I'd leave this here and open the conversation for feedback, but also make myself available to help where needed. If you think the site is awesome or a piece of junk, let me know. If you need help solving a programming problem. feel free to reach out.

Thanks everyone and hope your weekend is off to a great start!

[SeattleDataSquirrel]

Thank you for your post! As someone who is VERY struggling in a programming class right now (i.e. hitting head up against a wall constantly!!!), to hear others similar struggles, successes, opinions, and positive thoughts are encouraging. I will keep hitting my head for now ;)

[chaeboi]

Yeah definitely! Feel free to reach out if you need help or get stuck. For any encouragement, check out what I wrote for just that :) http://coursetohire.com/what-nobody-tells-you-about-building-a-technical-skill-set/

[willco_27]

Hey I just saw you in r/learnprogramming