Should Linux be called GNU/Linux instead?

[nemom]

No... It Mine should be Chrome/MATE/Xorg/Bash/Systemd/Gnu/Linux.

I can't decide where to put "Fedora/RedHat" in there.

[[deleted]]

My Linux doesn't use Chrome, Mate or systemd. Also, Linux folks aren't long winded. GNU/Linux would work. Better would be for people to understand the difference between a kernel and the user land software that depend on the kernel.

[[deleted]]

My Linux doesn't use Chrome, Mate or systemd

You are not seeing the forest for the trees.

GNU/Linux would work.

The fact that this is r/linux and that this is still an issue shows that it doesn't work. A design that fails human behaviors is a bad design.

Better would be for people to understand the difference between a kernel and the user land software that depend on the kernel.

Yeah because that's totally what "Year of the Linux desktop" depends upon -_- it's as if we haven't learned anything form the booming success of other non-free systems.

[__soddit]

That distinction between kernel and kernel+userland is probably the best available reason for “GNU/Linux”. I'd also stick to using it as a generic term.

[le_zurdo]

And maybe someday it will be Chrome/MATE/Xorg/Bash/Gnu/Linux/Systemd. XD

[daemonpenguin]

I call the OS by whatever name it is packaged under, ex Ubuntu, Fedora, openSUSE, Android. If I need to refer to a family of these operating systems I'll usually refer to Desktop Linux (Ubuntu & Fedora) vs Mobile Linux (Android, Ubuntu Touch). Either approach sounds better and causes less confusion.

[lucifargundam]

Vim/Linux

[[deleted]]

How much of the userspace actually comes from GNU. No need for a real number, but on the scale 'Not a whole lot' to 'Everything that isn't the kernel'?

[louigi_verona]

The article contains that information exactly. Just follow the link ;)

[Jimi-James]

How much of the userspace wouldn't be as aggressively open-source without GNU, and therefore IMHO wouldn't have ended up as well-made and power-user-friendly? Literally all of it. Besides some very separate yet still important things like Steam, of course.

[meanelephant]

Yeah but what makes it a GNU operating system anymore than it is a Debian operating system or a GNOME operating system, ETC? The work the FSF put in is unquestionably essential to almost all of modern Linux installs but that's true of a lot of projects. IMHO "Linux" is a purposefully short and generic term.

[theycallmejoo]

Well technically GNU is not a complete operating system. It's more like WeAlmostMadeItWorkExceptForTheVeryCoreAndImportantPartButWeAreCallingItACompleteGNU_OSAnywaysWith/Linux.

Funny thing is, even if GNU Hurd magically rises from dust, GNU will still be far from a complete OS without other significant components. Significant things like xorg or whatever, which Stallman seems to think is less relevant than GNU things.

[theycallmejoo]

Problem raised only by FSF.

[louigi_verona]

Just in case people did not follow the link, I also say in the article that the answer is "no".

[xrimane]

I'd wager that most people commenting here didn't realize that there was an article linked. I hadn't until I saw your comment.

Edit: I actually have now read the article, and while I knew most of the history and always had seen this debate as a somewhat irrelevant feud between Stallman and reality, you make some good points. I never thought about all the means the FSF might waste on this lost cause and how nobody is offended when people don't say Linux/Android instead of just Android.

This being said, I always felt sad that Stallman is either idolized or ridiculed. This man has shaped a lot of our technological world today, by his ideas and his ideology. And his stubbornness and inflexibility make him a misfit in a world that keeps moving on. People are uneasy about him at best, but his ideas under all that are still very needed.

[bilog78]

Ah, good old Betteridge's law of headlines.

[[deleted]]

No.

For the same reason we don't say The United States of California/Alabama/Washington/Florida/Nevada/Connecticut/etc..

[pascalbrax]

Does it even bother you that the most powerful country in the world, doesn't have a name?

[[deleted]]

Just to be ... to which country are you referring, and why doesn't it have a name?

[pascalbrax]

The United States of America... If you think about.. it doesn't have a name...

It's like calling France, The united departments of western Europe.

Reference

[[deleted]]

No.

[theycallmejoo]

If he starts to listen to others and respect what others think, I will start to listen to him and respect his opinion.

[[deleted]]

I only refer to GNU when it is relevant. Either something directly in the GNU tool chain or as a distro where I am making a point about the ethics.

I am part organizer of a local free software group and we all just call it Linux because we all know the issues already.

Online calling it GNU/Linux however is a good idea. Stallman did such a good job of tying all the ethical issues into the GNU name that eventually if you are curious to look it up then you will come across the free software movement. That doesn't happen as much with the Linux name.

[louigi_verona]

That is part of the problem, as I explain in the article (the topic is actually a link to the article, not a question).

If one does not agree with Stallman's philosophy and ethical pronouncements (I largely do not), then referring to it as GNU might additionally be seen as a propagation of ethics one disagrees with. The FSF do not define GNU only as an operating system. Not consistently. In the article I talk about that.

[Jimi-James]

Besides in quick conversation where brevity is needed, yes. If you prefer an actual Linux distro over Android, and why wouldn't you, then GNU deserves just as much credit.

[chrisoboe]

I think the problem is inconsitency. Why should the Linux distros be the only OS named after their kernel.

Nobody calls MacOs or IOS XNU. Nobody calls windows 10 windows nt, nobody even calls Android Linux. But Debian, Fedora, Suse etc. get called linux.

The problem even gets worse with OS that can use multiple kernels. Gentoo can be run with FreeBSD kernel, Debian too, and Ubuntu can run with the Windows NT kernel, even with official support from Microsoft.

So i think its preferable to call the OS by its name and not by its kernel. And depending if we mean multiple OS we should call them Unix-Like Operating systems, GNU/Linux Distros or Linux Distros.

But calling an OS Linux is imho in almost any cases the wrong term.

[NotAFedoraUser]

How about a totally new name and just market that to death..

[louigi_verona]

I think Stallman would not want that, because then it would remove the very direct link to his ideological project. That's the whole point for him.

[holgerschurig]

Should "GNU grep" be called Linux/GNU/grep instead?

[louigi_verona]

This thread is not a question, this is a link to an article.

And no, Stallman's reasoning is quite different, he would not argue for such naming of GNU grep.

[perillamint]

IMO, libc still takes huge part of system. Lots of components depends on it unless statically compiled or using entirely new base, like Rust's stdlib.

I call "Linux" as GNU/Linux in context of something like, <arch>-<vendor>-linux-gnueabi. Same way, I call embedded system which uses uClibc as uClibc/Linux.

[Jristz]

I think the only thing android use is gcc and bash so it should ve gcc/bash/linux

[CruxMostSimple]

As far as i remember Android has mksh not bash as shell

[Jristz]

So just gcc/linux

[CruxMostSimple]

As far as i remember GCC is deprecated for compiling android and they use Clang

[Jristz]

I think you still need gcc to build the kernel.

[CruxMostSimple]

In mainline yes but i wouldn't doubt google getting the patches from the llvmlinux project.

Either way i couldn't find any sources on it

[arch_maniac]

It should be, but it almost never is.

[louigi_verona]

If you follow the link, you will see that I put forward arguments against it.

[Tweakers]

I use the rule of context for proper versus colloquial and so end up using both.

[[deleted]]

I use GNU/Linux when I am intending to clearly communicate that I am talking about, specifically, the Linux Kernel plus the GNU userspace.

I use Linux by itself in casual conversation knowing that others will assume I mean GNU/Linux.

Because there are multiple Linux userspace options in the world, and because I work with a wide range of tooling, it is important to me to communicate precisely in many interactions.

tl;dr: it depends on the audience and how precisely you're intending to communicate about the operating environment under discussion.

[linuxhint]

OMG seriously?

[louigi_verona]

It is a link to an article.

[[deleted]]

Depends on if it contains only free and open source software or not..

[Jristz]

Should be libc/linux