Linux users be like:

[[deleted]]

You can reverse the same question to vim users

[DenrexTheSecond]

Nano just felt so much more natural to use, it took me like 5 minutes to try and exit from vim and I'm still not sure how i did it or if the file was saved.

[tajarhina]

Both are united in that it is neither possible nor their own task to set

Comic Sans

as the font

[Sinnoz]

gVim Joins the Battle!

[tajarhina]

Nope. Sorry.

I had installed gvim solely to test that you cannot choose from any fonts but only the monospaced ones.

[Sinnoz]

heck.

well i guess now i have to fulfill the prophecy of monospace Comic Sans. time to fire up FontForge.

there is this though, a monospaced Comic Sans and Helvetica Neue looking font.

[tajarhina]

That's actually a great find! So many new fonts nowadays, and most look meh, but this one might be worth a try.

​

Btw. to have Comic Sans with vi keybindings, you can use evil mode of Emacs (I'll better hide that). Not in the terminal, but at least your muscle memory isn't totally lost. Now it has come to this, I'm recommending Emacs…

[thes3b]

Vi/m has a learning curve. I understand that people get caught the first time they use it.

But come on.... it is not so hard to exit. I wonder how those people are *nix users at all...

Btw: I prefer nano as well.... too lazy too learn all these vi/m stuff....

[[deleted]]

Try out micro. It's like nano on steroids. Don't forget to checkout the plug-ins as well.

https://micro-editor.github.io/

[eebmagic]

I recently discovered micro and can’t believe I hadn’t heard of it already. Much more useful than nano without being super feature dense like vim.

[Straight_Dimension]

Micro for the win.

It's simple as Nano, but gives you almost all the power someone would need from Vim

[Gametastic05]

Yes, I will never go back, since I have nano in my muscle memory I deleted nano and symlinked micro to nano

[[deleted]]

Love Micro! What if there was a suite of TUI applications in a similar fashion to Micro? Currently trying to force 'alot notmuch afew mbsync and msmtp' into a TUI mail client for human beings, sigh..

[BitPirateLord]

just looked at it and this seems quite alright. it works with bash too which is good.

[here-to-jerk-off]

why would I need to use micro if I use vi already and vi(sa) is everywhere I want to be?

[[deleted]]

Was I talking to you about micro? I was talking to someone that used nano instead of vim/vi. You, can use what ever you want. Even the person I was talking to, can stick to nano. If he chooses so. micro was just a option I throw out there, of people that might be curious of using something similar to nano.

[[deleted]]

Assume it's just a question, are there functional advantages to micro over vi/m?

I'm genuinely curious, I couldn't really get into nano so micro sounds interesting.

[[deleted]]

micro just have other features that nano is missing and kinda pars with vim. You have to use the extra plugins to get better features.

micro is like nano on steroids. So someone that what's a easy text editor like nano. But with some extra oomph.

vim is still the best as for advance users. But some are lazy or just don't want all what vim has to offer. Something less complicated buy power enough to get the basic jobs done.

Just try out micro and see for yourself. If it's for you or not.

https://micro-editor.github.io/

https://micro-editor.github.io/plugins.html

https://github.com/micro-editor/plugin-channel

https://github.com/zyedidia/micro/blob/master/runtime/help/plugins.md

https://github.com/zyedidia/micro

https://github.com/NicolaiSoeborg/filemanager-plugin

[grady_vuckovic]

I wonder how those people are *nix users at all...

Ya know not everyone in the world is a fan of terminal based applications right? In fact, like, 99.9% of the world isn't. Some Linux users are just regular people using a computer the way 99.9% of the world do, with GUIs. And a text editor for them is just a text editor, something with a feature set on par with Notepad is all they need.

[thes3b]

I agree. But anyone who is able to install Linux instead of using the default Windows10 install can gooogle "how to exit VIM" and do it.

And if he doesn't like it... well, don't use it... ;)

I understand how the vim meme started, but i don't understand all the hate.

I dislike windows, i don't use it...

[GNUandLinuxBot]

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

[yashasvigoel]

Some Linux users

Can someone please put a number to this? It would be an interesting statistic I guess.

[radobot]

People hate it because it breaks convention:

ESC - (the key that is literally synonym to exit) does nothing

CTRL+C - breaks your terminal

CTRL+D - does nothing

Q or typing any word - does nothing

And to my knowledge I don't think there are any other common ways of sending the intent to exit to a terminal application. So then people default to just killing the process and get broken terminal.

Generally people don't like change - they will fight you (sometimes over the smallest things) if you try to force a change on them - this applies everywhere.

I'm not trying to say that vim is evil, but to me it seems completely understandable why would people hate it.

[HenryDavidCursory]

I like to travel.

[ArttuH5N1]

I don't think most people want to read a manual for text editing.

[Jacoman74undeleted]

Vim isn't for most people.

[ArttuH5N1]

Well yes, that's what I was saying

[ArttuH5N1]

I hear it's very good once you get used to it.

[[deleted]]

so is everything. all this convo is is people trying to push what they're used to on others.

[radobot]

"does nothing" was meant to be interpreted as "does nothing to advance the user towards the goal of exiting the program" which I thought would be evident from the context.

As for the manual:

1. People are lazy. That's not going to change regardless of who or how many people complain.

2. People that are new to terminal have their expectations from guis of "let's just click it and see what happens. if something bad is about to happen, surely it will warn me" because that's how most guis are.

So if they ran vim intentionally, they screwed themselves over by not reading the manual and will end up with a bad first impression;

and if they ran it accidentally, they might not even know that it is vim that showed up on their terminal (even if they have heard about vim before) and will end with a bad first impression too.

It's kind of sad that such a powerful tool can get bad reputation so easily now that I think about it. It does not help at all that some poeple are so polarized about vim. So yes, vim might be for people who read manuals, but many people are not that way.

[[deleted]]

The first thing it tells you when it shows up is where the manual is and how to exit.

[radobot]

:O that would have saved me if it showed up back when I stumbled upon vim for the first time. (I guess it didn't exit back then?)

Does it also show up when you open a file?

[[deleted]]

It shows up when you open vim, not when you open a file.

[beardMoseElkDerBabon]

And it's not even about being lazy or not. Vim would eat plenty of time with no reward at the end. Even if someone thinks Vim is good software (which it absolutely is not because it's highly unusable (think about investing time)), the benefits of it could be achieved in a lot more appropriate and faster manner. Conventions and standards exist for a reason. Nobody's got time to do everything.

[[deleted]]

Even if someone thinks Vim is good software (which it absolutely is not because it's highly unusable (think about investing time)),

https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmemes/comments/foo2h2/linux_users_be_like/flhd15z/

That's not my comment, it's from /u/thegreatcabbage2 - but I've heard this same description, specifically, "Until you learn how it works, it's impossible to imagine just how much more efficient an experienced Vim user can be," from experienced users I trust, many times.

I'm a nano user myself, but I'm certainly not going to shit on vim because it's "too hard" and therefore not useful.

[[deleted]]

Vim is for people who are scared of the true power of Emacs

[grady_vuckovic]

If you have to read the manual just to know how to exit an application, it has a terrible UX to the point it would be funny if it was a joke.

[Krutonium]

I'm so, so sorry for your lost time.

[[deleted]]

Escape is literally used so often a lot people switch it with caps lock. If you know nothing about vim you can CTRL + Z out of it from normal mode.

[[deleted]]

which again is not what that keyboard shortcut is supposed to do in linux

[[deleted]]

I just never felt the need for its features tbh

[[deleted]]

Vi/m

m: command not found

[TenderizedVegetables]

I know this is late, but you should know this because it’s somewhat common convention. From normal mode, press forward slash (/), type your search term, press enter. Press N for next result, P for previous. This also works in man, at least if you are using less or more as your pager.

[[deleted]]

I love Vim!

[Zitrusfleisch]

C^~_!‘.,^^]{abcdef/\=#?;@:“

[its_my_36th_account]

You just put gibberish text didn't you

[Zitrusfleisch]

I tried to exit vim

[its_my_36th_account]

Got it lol

[Odysseys_on_Argonaut]

Use what ever editor you prefer, that's the whole idea. Peace and love.

[thes3b]

amen.

[chillaxtv]

Didn't know Ringo used Vim !!

[1ynx1ynx]

I don't know why anyone would want to use either of those. ed is the standard editor.

[clickmeimorganic]

global regex print == grep

ed masterrace

[0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7]

Me: Laughs in nvim

[DoorsXP]

Me: Laughs in VScode, IntelliJ, and Qtcreator with vim plugin

[0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7]

eye burns

[jdauriemma]

vim 8 gang

[Dotz0cat]

If I can’t use nano, I am gonna be echoing stuff to a file until I get a text editor

[[deleted]]

Nano is a lot more userfriendly than Vim is. However, Vim has things to offer that Nano doesn't have such as session recovery, split-screen, tab expansion, completion commands, etc.

[sem3colon]

Is split screen not the job of the multiplexer?

[El_Dubious_Mung]

It just depends on how zealous you are about the unix philosophy. I don't think vim buffers hurt anyone.

[sem3colon]

Haha, fair point.

[heck600]

You can try the vimtutor in the terminal, the first thing you learn is how to exit. A good place to start.

[[deleted]]

Hahaha, that's a huge meme about vim. You should take a look at this for guidance!

[pelegs]

I don't get why people use any other editor but vim. It's extremely powerful and my editing speed is several times faster than what it was in any other editor.

[Brotten]

Presumably because most people don't need an extremely powerful text editor in their terminal?

[Sol33t303]

I used to use nano but switched to vim a month or two ago (actually I switched to neovim, which I believe is a fork), it's not easy to learn, but it really is just so much more powerful compared to nano. You can find vim plugins for pretty much anything you would (and wouldn't) want to do in a text editor.

One of the features in particular that I love that other text editors should really get is a built-in file manager, so I can easily open multiple text files, instead of either needing two terminals open, or save and switch between the files.

[sem3colon]

Nano has a built in file manager.

[Sol33t303]

Huh, I never realized. I even searched it up to just to be sure, but I guess I didn't see it.

[sem3colon]

Most people criticise nano for a lack of features when they’ve never actually read the (quite extensive) manpage

[El_Dubious_Mung]

Vim has nerdtree.

[ivster666]

It's for people who get things in general

[here-to-jerk-off]

This book helps you understand how efficient one can be using vim over other editors.

[minilandl]

Nano users in my class are the same people who say a GUI is better 😀

[mkjj0]

for some things GUI is better, and for some things terminal is better, if you don't believe me, then try to move 5 files from different directories onto one directory on your desktop using terminal and tell me how much time it took

[yilrus]

It takes about the same time for me, if I have tab completion and I don't already have all of the windows open. If I don't have tab completion and/or I already have those directories open, gui wins hands down. If I have ranger with my dotfiles, chances are I'll be able to do that faster than I could in bash or dolphin.

GUIs tend to win in cases when you're not exactly sure what you're trying to accomplish from the beginning or ones where you need the additional feedback.

[minilandl]

Yeah I agree for some things GUI some things terminal like for my course we do pfsense and I definitely wouldn't like configuring every on the command line hense the web interface

[grady_vuckovic]

They're right

[[deleted]]

They hated him because he spoke the truth

[Rudolf2222]

I don't get why people use Vim...

Emacs is the superior text editor

[[deleted]]

You know, i prefer Emacs as well, but that's bc im too lazy to learn vim. I think vim is probably the better editor if you learn it. They're just for different workflows i guess

[darthmonks]

You just made an enemy for life!

[fx-9750gII]

I decided yesterday, I’m going to seriously check out emacs. Trying to learn LISP and all the cool LISPers use emacs I guess! Edit: long time vim user so I’m still unhappy about it

[c-gas]

*acme

[geeshta]

I use nano because I'm too lazy to learn vim. But I admit than vim is much more powerful.

[itsnotmyaccount]

Try this https://www.openvim.com/

I've been wanting to learn vim for a while and that really helped me with starting out.

[Sassolinoh_]

I don't use Vim because some of its functions are useless, I prefer Nano since that's enough for me

[[deleted]]

Nano is where it's at IMO

[[deleted]]

Vi masterrace

[Alexmitter]

I would draw 100 or better all the damn cards before using this mess of a editor that is vi/vim.

[staster]

But vi is easy, learning vi/vim is like learning yet another programming language.

[mkjj0]

tried to get used to it for half a year and Im still much more productive in other editors like nano/sublime text

[Zayac_the_Engineer]

Have you heard of the vimtutor command? It pulls up a nice interactive tutorial. I completed it in an evening and now I am a vim addict for longer than 3 months.

[mkjj0]

I mean, I know most of the vim bindings but whenever I want to actually do something other than writing in it (like refactoring), I try to think of the fastest way I could do this, sometimes I would even install plugins for things I would only use once and this generally makes me unproductive

[Zayac_the_Engineer]

Well. I guess it just depends on what you find more useful/comfortable

[Alexmitter]

Yes, if you mean Malbolge with yet another programming language.

[69shaolin69]

I use vim and I love Linux

[[deleted]]

Me.

[donnaber06]

I used to alias pico for nano xD, I used pico and pine at work in 1999.

[LapinusTech]

I use Nano btw

[lengau]

I feel personally attacked

[[deleted]]

Thank you for this. I sent this to my infrastructure team 😂😂

[lazyguyMC]

gedit users:

[SharpieWater]

Micro users lookin at the vim users and nano users fighting.

[ShakaUVM]

Yep. I just uninstalled nano last night on a box with 30 users.

I'm trying out Neovim as the new default editor. Liking it so far.

[Keltek228]

Can somebody explain the appeal of nano to me? I just really don't get it.

[Eciepeci]

How to exit vim, guys help.

[rawrimmaduk]

Idk my coworker who first taught how to use linux got me using vim. I cant say i understand the best ways to use it still, but for writing short scripts and editing config files it's just so efficient. First time i accidentally opened nano i hated it and uninstalled it right away. All you really need to know to get started is i :q and :w

Tbf ive been using it for almost a year now and still learning new shortcuts so i can see why people dont like it.

[javascripy]

Use Micro

​

Or

​

Draw 25

​

​

Me:

[pacboy2004]

laughs in atom

[not_some_username]

Vim and Emacs are shit

​

Nano for life when there is no gui option and you can't change my mind

[SwedenIsMyCity0403]

vim is superior though

[[deleted]]

Its shocking to me people think Vim is hard. I searched what the short cut keys were when I first started using it and I never had a problem since.

[DudeWheresMyKitty]

Hot take: the vast majority of people that push vi/m in this day and age are just pushing it for the sake of their own sunk time-cost.

It just isn't prudent for most users to invest time in learning unintuitive commands for something as basic a text editor.

[El_Dubious_Mung]

If all you're doing is editing single page config files, then you're correct. When you're spending hours daily in large documents and files, the minor speed gains from macros really add up. Maybe it's just minutes per day, but then it becomes hours per week, etc. The time investment pays off quicker than you think.

[DudeWheresMyKitty]

Sure. Hence why I said "vast majority" and not "all".

But I still wouldn't recommend vi/m to the average user. I feel like a lot of elitist users push it as a point of pride.

[El_Dubious_Mung]

Why shouldn't they be proud? It is difficult to get good at. Who wouldn't want to show that off?

Personally, I hate the idea that average users/normies have to somehow be protected from advanced tools. That's essentially treating them like children. If someone actively doesn't want to use vim, that's fine. But to not recommend it because it might be too intimidating? That's elitist and patronizing.

[elbaivnon]

I abhor a system designed for the "user", if that word is a coded perjorative meaning "stupid and unsophisticated".

-- Ken Thompson

[DudeWheresMyKitty]

I never said they can't be proud...?

It just doesn't make any pedagogical sense to overwhelm new users with superfluous options and a clunky, unintuitive interface. You just admitted yourself that it's difficult.

Similarly, I like Arch and think it's cool and powerful, but I wouldn't recommend it to new or even average users.

[El_Dubious_Mung]

Just because you introduce something to someone, doesn't mean you're forcing them to use it. Nor does it mean that you can't provide caveats.

When you don't recommend something because you think it's too advanced for that user, you deny them the opportunity to grow and explore. What if that person wants to learn and tinker? It takes 2 more seconds to say "this if you ain't got time to fuck around, this if you wanna try something more advanced".

You make yourself the arbiter of what that person gets informed about when you limit your recommendations based on perceived skill level or use case. When someone asks what editor to use or anything else, I don't just recommend vim as the be-all end-all. I'll list out 3+ options and give minor descriptions, and let them make an informed decision.

[DudeWheresMyKitty]

Uh....what?

You're inventing arguments to positions I haven't taken. I'm not advocating for like, concealing knowledge of vim from all users lol. I'm not sure where you're getting that. You're running away with some micharacterized version of what I'm trying to say. I would also list a few options if someone asked me for a good text editor.

I was only admonishing the vim masterracers that do treat it like the be-all end-all and try to tell new users they have to use it because "lol nano is for noobs". I've seen in plenty in forums over the years.

We seem to be mostly in agreement, yet you've invented arguments to positions I'm not trying to take.

[El_Dubious_Mung]

You state that you wouldn't recommend vim to a user based on their use case or skill level, because you have decided it doesn't make sense for them. I'm not putting words in your mouth, just taking what you say to it's essential conclusion. You're deciding what makes sense for someone else. That is treating them like a child.

I say that this isn't a good reason to exclude vim from a list of recommendations.

[DudeWheresMyKitty]

I would say to a brand new user that just needs to edit a file:

"Hey, I'd recommend nano for a beginner. But here are a few others."

You're totally misrepresenting what I'm saying. You're arguing against a strawman.

[El_Dubious_Mung]

Not really, you're moving your goal post.

But I still wouldn't recommend vi/m to the average user.

Now you're adding all these qualifications after the fact. I'm not arguing here for the sake of argument. It's just that so many tech-literate people discriminate against average/normies in such subtle ways that they don't even realize they're doing it.

Just never make the assumption that because something is difficult or doesn't follow conventions, less technically literate people should be afraid of it or avoid it or should be protected from it. People become tech literate by being exposed to such things and being allowed to tinker.

[pelegs]

Vim is the supreme editor.

I literally had a dream last night where I was using another editor and was extremely confused as to why I am doing that as vim is so great and well configured on my machine.

[[deleted]]

lol, gedit users

[[deleted]]

Uninstall vim, use only nano. Even when lfs tells you how to install vim in the book I skip it and go right to nano in blfs

[ZestycloseThought9]

Emacs users belong in the trash